Author Topic: Riding in near freezing temps... (Read 15274 times)

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #50 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:08:52 pm »

So, how exactly did a thread about near freezing riding become an oil thread? $:-\$

Tower · « **Reply #51 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:11:24 pm »

Its not really an oil thread, its a thread about oil viscosity and cold temperature

Letc cross our fingers that no-one starts selecting brands

kach_me · « **Reply #52 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:15:00 pm »

Actually, I asked about tips for riding in the near freezing temps and tips for winterizing the bike for the cold. That's how we got into the oil portion. I'm digging it... I thought that the thread was dead and it revived.

TwoTired · « **Reply #53 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:35:59 pm »

So, what has changed since Honda printed the owner's manual in the 70's that negates the recommended viscosity of 10w-40, General, all temperatures?

Tower · « **Reply #54 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:41:25 pm »

Nothing changed. Honda was wrong then also.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #55 on:** November 12, 2008, 06:55:10 pm »

Honda...... Wrong?!?!

.... BLASPHEMY!!!

goon 1492 · « **Reply #56 on:** November 13, 2008, 09:50:40 am »

Ok well,

I am staying with what I have ran for 16yrs now and that's 10w40 in summer(I live in midwest) and 10w30 in the winter.I would state the brand as I did earlier(oops

) but I'll plead the 5th now just for saftey's sake.

dusterdude · « **Reply #57 on:** November 13, 2008, 11:47:11 am »

amsoil,there i started it.bwahahahahaha

goon 1492 · « **Reply #58 on:** November 13, 2008, 12:58:55 pm »

You did it dusterdude!

manjisann · « **Reply #59 on:** November 16, 2008, 03:04:38 pm »

I bought one of the HJC breath guards and it works pretty well. It forces all air movement down past your chin (except the air that goes up to the visor, that is unaffected.) It attaches easily and getting the helmet on with it inserted isn't too bad. Getting the helmet off with it inserted is kind of uncomfortable as it does scrape against your forhead. That being said, for $12.50 plus tax and a little discomfort, the visor stays unfogged and you can see in cold weather.

Has anyone tried the Pinlock systems? I'm sure some of our British and European members are familiar with them.

Thanks,

Brandon

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #60 on:** November 16, 2008, 03:16:43 pm »

Hadn't heard of the Pin Lock system, sounds interesting, though I try to avoid riding conditions it's designed for.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/anti-fog-visor/

Tower · « **Reply #61 on:** November 16, 2008, 07:29:27 pm »

No one has yet to mention jetting for winter operation. Since air is more dense the colder it is, it requires more gasoline be added to the mix. i.e. larger jets and different needle and idle positions. I have seen several bikes, including my current ride, blue the pipes going into fall. The difference in jetting (fuel ratio change) is quite significant at around 5% in fall to around 10% in winter. That translates to around 5 - 12 sizes larger on main jets (e.g. 110 moves to 120), at least one notch move on the needle, plus a one or two 1/4 turns richer on idle/slow jets.

If not, then pipes will blue and the bike will be running too lean.

goon 1492 · « **Reply #62 on:** November 17, 2008, 09:31:45 am »

Quote from: Tower on November 16, 2008, 07:29:27 pm

No one has yet to mention jetting for winter operation. Since air is more dense the colder it is, it requires more gasoline be added to the mix. i.e. larger jets and different needle and idle positions. I have seen several bikes, including my current ride, blue the pipes going into fall. The difference in jetting (fuel ratio change) is quite significant at around 5% in fall to around 10% in winter. That translates to around 5 - 12 sizes larger on main jets (e.g. 110 moves to 120), at least one notch move on the needle, plus a one or two 1/4 turns richer on idle/slow jets.

If not, then pipes will blue and the bike will be running too lean.

I hear that brother, temp change can lean yo out real quick, I have RC nitro 4x4 10th scale trucks I run and if the temp drops just 5 degrees I have to stop and re-tune the 5mm diameter carb. They let you know real quick too if they are running too rich or lean. I learned alot about carb tuning a few years back when I got into these little devils

UnCrash · « **Reply #63 on:** November 17, 2008, 12:25:34 pm »

Quote

No one has yet to mention jetting for winter operation. Since air is more dense the colder it is, it requires more gasoline be added to the mix. i.e. larger jets and different needle and idle positions. I have seen several bikes, including my current ride, blue the pipes going into fall. The difference in jetting (fuel ratio change) is quite significant at around 5% in fall to around 10% in winter. That translates to around 5 - 12 sizes larger on main jets (e.g. 110 moves to 120), at least one notch move on the needle, plus a one or two 1/4 turns richer on idle/slow jets.

Quite interesting... I never thought of this, and am relatively new to cold weather riding.

This is the first real cold weather I've rode my K6 in and I've been convinced that once it warms up it runs just a little better. I was wondering if it "liked" colder air for some reason and this helps explain it. No bluing of the pipes either. This could mean it was always running a little rich?

andy750 · « **Reply #64 on:** November 17, 2008, 12:43:33 pm »

Ben Im guessing your K6 is like my K4 - runs rich at normal temps and so when its cold its actually running in the right range

. I ride my bike up until temps drop below 20F and last year never noticed blue pipes. My bikes stock with 110s and it runs rich in summer. I can start the K4 with choke for only 10 secs before shutting it off and then can ride off normally - did this today when it was 33F (morning).

cheers
Andy

edbikerii · « **Reply #65 on:** November 17, 2008, 12:51:22 pm »

Certainly stock bikes are jetted to handle a range of expected temps. Anybody know what that range is? I rode my stock CB550 in 6F without noticing any problems. Doesn't mean that there weren't any problems -- just that I didn't notice any. I probably wouldn't have noticed anything anyway, considering that every fiber of my being was frozen. My first priority was windchill factor, followed closely by frostbite.

UnCrash · « **Reply #66 on:** November 17, 2008, 01:51:56 pm »

Quote

I can start the K4 with choke for only 10 secs before shutting it off and then can ride off normally - did this today when it was 33F (morning).

Yep, this is exactly how my bike started up this morning at a balmy 32F

kach_me · « **Reply #67 on:** November 17, 2008, 05:31:22 pm »

My K6 is bone stock and it definitely runs better at colder temps. I think that it has something to do with cooler air being more dense, but hell I really don't know for sure. Anyhow, it definitely runs better in the cooler weather.

Unfortunately, I do not run well in the cooler weather.

andy750 · « **Reply #68 on:** November 18, 2008, 04:46:32 am »

In comparison my K2 with 120 mains (runs way to lean with 110 and 115s ) and stock HM300 pipes runs like a dog for the first 1 mile or so after start up (and starts up easily every time)...blubbering away down the street....and then takes off

So likely is year specific.

cheers
Andy

HondaMan · « **Reply #69 on:** November 18, 2008, 05:30:36 am »

Generally, the 750 and 50/550 K models were all too rich, so much so that they had plug fouling problems in the summer. But, they run quite well in the winter! Remember that these are small-bore, low-specific-performance engines, so the changes in the carbs are relatively unneeded. I have found, though, that running with the Vetter lower in the winter, which enclose the airbox, does improve the MPG and early throttle response in cold weather.

I also found the Transistorized Ignition has almost completely removed the cold-run stumbles it has always had. I am attempting to ride it into colder weather this year, just to see how far this effect goes down, so long as I still have this short 7-mile commute. It was always that I had to baby it along with the choke for the first 2 miles or so: now, by the end of the block, it runs perfectly, even below 35 degrees.

At continuous sub-zero riding, a 5-more mainjet on the 750 was helpful, but that was a long time ago, for me (1970s). Now, my lower limit is 30 degrees, where ice shows up everywhere around here. That's more about safety than engine run quality, though.

Tower · « **Reply #70 on:** November 18, 2008, 09:12:11 am »

Consider these facts when thinking about jetting for the cold weather:

Optimal air:fuel mixture is 14.7:1 (by weight)
Our 750's run a mixture in a range between 17:1 to about 12:1 (depends on load and RPM)
From a performance perspective, the mixture is about 12.7:1 at peak engine horsepower RPM.
In other words to get best performance, our 750's must run a little rich.

Air Density at sea level at 0^oC at 0% humidity is 1.71 Kg/M³
- Note that air holds 0% moisture at 0^oC or lower
Air Density at sea level at 22^oC at 0% humidity is 1.59 Kg/M³
Air Density at sea level at 22^oC at 10% humidity is 1.48 Kg/M³

What this means is that a carb must flow about 17% more air at 22^oC at 10% humidity than at 0^oC at 0% humidity to continue to mix air:fuel at the same ratio. Conversely, since air volume doesn't change with temperature and humidity, rather the air:fuel mixture changes, it means that the air:fuel has been leaned from 12.7:1 to 15.2:1

So if you had precisely tuned your engine to peak power during summer, that engine is now running at 15.2:1 (although that means running too lean for peak power, it may not be a serious problem as its still within an acceptable range)
On the other hand, if you normally run rich (say an engine tuned to 11.5:1 at peak power), then the winter operating engine is running at 14:1, which happens to be pretty close to optimal. Indications will be better throttle response at lower to mid rpm, which makes the engine appear to be running "better".

So all those who are suggesting their bikes run "better" in winter, now you know why.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #71 on:** November 18, 2008, 09:45:50 am »

A few more tips I figured out this morning:

- For those of us with weak charging systems (or everyone really), choose a gear that keeps the reves up higher then usual as battery performance degrades with lower temps. This should also help move your hot oil around better too. Your clutch will thank you.

- Keep an even larger following distance when at speed. At the recommended 2 second gap, slick road conditions appear pretty quickly from under the cage ahead of you.

- Return springs will have to work extra hard against parts whose grease is thicker, like the rear drum brake.

hapsh · « **Reply #72 on:** November 18, 2008, 05:35:09 pm »

My 550 seems to run the same (performance wise) in the colder months, I just have to use the choke longer. However, my gas mileage increases quite a bit in the winter. 39 mpg in 110 degrees F and 47 in 10 degrees F. I figure it just runs a little bit rich in the hotter months and just about right in the cold.

stresssolutions · « **Reply #73 on:** November 18, 2008, 07:29:15 pm »

My mileage has improved as the temps have come down, as well. Mine was very reluctant to start today, about 18 or 20 F, had not been run for a week. Had to choke it most of the trip, 3 miles or so, 30-40mph, stop and go thru town.

My low beam burned out, but high works, but I left it on low/off today, so the battery could charge, it was starting to act run down when it finally started.

It is a little too cold for me, with my current clothing options.

goon 1492 · « **Reply #74 on:** November 19, 2008, 06:49:58 am »

I'm ready to ride! I just need my international title service stuff sent off....

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Author Topic: Riding in near freezing temps... (Read 15274 times)