Topic: Project Virgin

[TE 450 Pilot]

Where do I start ?

I am about to start my first build. I have never done anything like this before. I bought a 1975 550F last winter and it has been sitting in my shop with nothing done to it.  I started to look for a few parts for it and found a 1976 550F complete and on the road for a good price in September so I bought it and have put about 200 miles on it.

1976 The good

New tires , New Rectifier , New battery , Dayna-S Electronic Ignition , new fork seals , carburetors rebuilt and sync & valves set. I have receipts for all this work done by a dealer in the last 1 ½ years. Good seat & side covers.

1976 The bad

The bike is a slug. When I bought it he told me it only runs with the air filter out. I have enjoyed it when riding but the bad bog does bug me. I am afraid to take it to far from home.

1975

Its all there but I have not done anything to it. Came with 2 sets of repairable  side covers & 3 sets of carburetors. Also has a new or recovered seat.

About me

I have done lots of body and paint work before. I have a huge shop and tons of tools. < My dad left me his Mechanics snap on tools when he died>

I would like to see this bike to look like what a guy would do to it in the late 70’s. I am not a fan of the café’s  though. My wife has informed me when I am done she wants one too.

Thanks for any advice on where to start.

Randy

[FunJimmy]

My wife has informed me when I am done she wants one too.

Fortunately you have two. LOL
Take a scroll through the projects section (if you haven’t already done that) and get an idea of how much work you’re comfortable with. There are many routes to take you from here to completion, but I’d probably start with freshening up the ’76 engine with a re-bore, rings some mild porting and a 650 cam. Rebuilding the carbs would round out the poor performance part of it, then all you’re left with is chassis and paint.

Have fun and welcome to the projects.

FJ

[moham]

Nice shop. Nice bikes. I am jealous. This site contains, if you are willing to dig, probably just about any info on SOHCs that you could think of...This site also contains, if you are willing to ask, members that could/will answer just about any question on SOHCs (and more if you'll let them). It has been an invaluable resource to me as a fellow novice. (btw, it's probably just me, but I was expecting something different from your thread title...)

[TE 450 Pilot]

I know a guy that will do any powder coating i want for a case of beer. As for painting the tank & sid covers , i think will prep them myself & i have got quotes from $300 to $900.00 to paint them.

The motor scares the hell out of me. I have the Clymer & shop manual for my bike. I'm sure i can get it apart but back together might be harder. How does one pick a place to re bore my bike and port the head. Can any machine shop do the work? I stopped in at a Honda dealer and they basically told me i was going to waste my money.

For right now i will prep the tank and side covers for paint. I have been thinking of ordering new spokes for my rims. I need to find where to order my first parts from.

Randy

[moham]

How does one pick a place to re bore my bike and port the head. Can any machine shop do the work? I stopped in at a Honda dealer and they basically told me i was going to waste my money.

I've been google mapping like crazy to find a place myself and have come up with a few options in my town. All I can say is, google is a good thing. But not everybody wants to work on these bikes, as you've discovered at the dealer. I guess if it's not something off their showroom floor, they're not interested. There are some members here that do porting, notably MRieck. He has price lists for the asking. I don't know about members here offering to bore cylinders...

[TE 450 Pilot]

Picked up a 605 Big Bore kit for a 500 of eBay last night. Kinda pricey i think but i won the wife over and got the $$. I think i have a contact for a machine shop in the area. I have no idea how much it will cost to have the head ported and polished. I may look into a 650 cam but I'm not sure which one to try and get.

[moham]

As for the 650 cam, any SOHC 79-82 should do it (although I'm told there is an obscure Euro model that had a different grind cam but probably won't come up). I found a complete 650 head on ebay for $40 shipped. They are relatively ubiquitous so you should be able to find one easy. Now, the 605 kit you got: did you see the post in your other thread about calculating displacement? If your new pistons/sleeves are 60mm, then you aren't quite to the 605 range. 60mm bore with 50.6mm stroke yields 573cc. 61mm bore yields 592cc. Just curious...

[TE 450 Pilot]

As for the 650 cam, any SOHC 79-82 should do it (although I'm told there is an obscure Euro model that had a different grind cam but probably won't come up). I found a complete 650 head on ebay for $40 shipped. They are relatively ubiquitous so you should be able to find one easy. Now, the 605 kit you got: did you see the post in your other thread about calculating displacement? If your new pistons/sleeves are 60mm, then you aren't quite to the 605 range. 60mm bore with 50.6mm stroke yields 573cc. 61mm bore yields 592cc. Just curious...

I really don't care about a few extra cc. At this point it is what it is. I'm so new to all of this & i just want to get to work on my project. I will take the bike off the road next week as some snow is going to happen soon.

Are you going to use the whole 650 head or just the cam ? What do you do about the valves? I have read someplace about a problem with the valve guides on these bikes.

[FunJimmy]

Randy

Paulages did a very comprehensive 650/550 hybrid thread describing the differences and similarities between the two engines. As I understand it, the 650 head has better ports, but the larger combustion chamber is matched to the 650 pistons and does not yield enough compression with flat top pistons. The cb550 header will not fit the 650 head either, so the use of that head is going in the wrong direction from where you are headed.

FJ

[TE 450 Pilot]

I got some machining prices today.

Bore $65.00 per cylinder
port & polish $325.00 to $400.00

Does this sound about right for prices ?

Am i headed down the right road  to make my bike a decent daily rider ?

Bore to 605 , new rings & pistons
port & polish
650 cam

Not sure what i will need for a exhaust or if the carbs will need to be reworked. Then their is the pod - no pod decision.

[moham]

As for the 650 cam, any SOHC 79-82 should do it (although I'm told there is an obscure Euro model that had a different grind cam but probably won't come up). I found a complete 650 head on ebay for $40 shipped. They are relatively ubiquitous so you should be able to find one easy. Now, the 605 kit you got: did you see the post in your other thread about calculating displacement? If your new pistons/sleeves are 60mm, then you aren't quite to the 605 range. 60mm bore with 50.6mm stroke yields 573cc. 61mm bore yields 592cc. Just curious...

I really don't care about a few extra cc. At this point it is what it is. I'm so new to all of this & i just want to get to work on my project. I will take the bike off the road next week as some snow is going to happen soon.

Are you going to use the whole 650 head or just the cam ? What do you do about the valves? I have read someplace about a problem with the valve guides on these bikes.

Like funjimmy says, the 650 head won't yield adequate compression to justify its use with 550 pistons. However, I'm not sure about the 60mm pistons you have from your kit and if the CR would be better, but I still don't think so as the 60mm are probably not domed like the 650 pistons. You could just drop a whole 650 motor in and get the benefits of that. But from what I've been able to deduce from a lot of other members (regarding my own build) you should:

1. get a 650 camshaft
2. bore out for bigger pistons
3. port
4. 4-1 exhaust
5. 650 or 750 carbs (tho soos had some warnings about 650 carbs to do with rebuild costs)

I am not planning on needing new valves or springs. I might be advised differently when I have MRieck port the head. Also, I was quoted $40 for my cylinders (each) here in the Twin Cities. MRieck will email you a price list for head work, if you ask him...But, as I am also very much in the learning stages, I would quickly defer to the many other folks on this board that know a lot more than me...

[TE 450 Pilot]

You will have to excuse my ignorance but where is St Paul and who is MRieck ??
I am open to geting a price on porting but do not want to ship my head  ::)half way around the world.

[moham]

You will have to excuse my ignorance but where is St Paul and who is MRieck ??
I am open to geting a price on porting but do not want to ship my head  ::)half way around the world.

St Paul, Minnesota USA (about 868 miles from Cambridge Ontario)

Mike Rieck is a member on this forum that does cylinder head machine work. His work is quite highly regarded by many on the forum and comes highly recommended. You will see his name on many posts. If Ontario is in the same place it was last time I was there, you wouldn't need to ship it quite halfway around the world but I'm not certain either where Mr. Rieck is located...

[TE 450 Pilot]

I got started on my bike today. I sanded down the insides of 4 side covers and put in one layer of fiberglass. I'm going to get the fenders , tank & side cover ready for paint first. Seems like the easiest place to start. I need to decide on a tail light for it soon.

[paulages]

nice looking bikes! i love the 550 supersport model. best looking 4-1 headers on any of these bikes IMO.

if you're going for a solid daily rider and not necessarily a smoker of an engine, i'd not put porting at the top of the list. yes, it'll wake up the engine a lot, but the cb550 in good tune is a strong reliable bike. porting will mostly give you more top end. for a daily rider, i'd think the displacement increase will help you with low-end torque a little. if the pistons aren't already there, i'd also try and get the compression ratio to about 10.5/1, for the same effect. this can be achieved by decking the head, assuming you have enough clearances to allow it.

that said, mike reick would do you up just right. he ported the 650 head i have in my 718cc cb550, which is making about double the horsepower of stock.

$65 per cylinder for boring is a little expensive if you ask me.

[TE 450 Pilot]

I just got some more pricing done. I found a local bike shop that builds drag bikes. this place was recommended by a few guys i work with. If i take the head & cylinders and drop them off for a month or two until he has a opening he will

Port the head , check valve springs , and rework valve seats , bore out the cylinders and reinstall everything into my bottom end for $1,600 to $2,000. He will provide before and after flow numbers for the head. He claims i will just have to do minor tuning when i reinstall it in the bike. He also said something about "matching everything " and geting some more compression from the motor. The guy claims there is a lot of untapped HP in the old 550 Motors.

Since I'm new , i wanted to know if this sounds reasonable. I can see this project costing more money then i am going to tell my wife about.

[mlinder]

Stage 3 head with new guides and serdi valve job and guide honing from MReick would be something like seven or eight hundred dollars.
Bore and hone will depend on how much your machine shop charges.
Gaskets, bolts, etc... maybe another 150 bucks.
That's less than 1600 bucks, and you'd get MReicks excellent work, but then again, you'd have to put th eengine together yourself, and it osunds like this guy is offering to dissasemble and reassemble?
Personally I'd go with MReick and do the assembly myself, but then again, I've torn down and rebuilt engines before.

[moham]

For what it's worth, I just had the following done to my 550 top-end:

1) cylinder block dipped/cleaned
2) cylinders over-bored and finish-honed
3) head dipped/blasted
4) valves cleaned/lapped
5) valve seats lapped
6) head chambers cc'd
7) pistons cc'd/compression ratio calculated

I got this work done for ~$400 by a shop here in Minneapolis. Now, I helped out by cleaning old gasket material and pulling valve springs/valves and providing numbers for gasket thickness etc, and it didn't include porting or re-assembly. But according your quote that would leave $1200-1600 for these two tasks. You could spend what I spent twice on two different 550 motors (having one to practice tear-down and re-assembly) and still come out ahead. I would find another shop.

[TE 450 Pilot]

Still doing a bit of Body work on the old bike ! With my wife working in auto parts & her job uncertain, i am having a hard time to justify the motor work right now. I have just ordered a new Mac exhaust with the help of  some overtime hours this week.

[Flying J]

forgive my ignorance, but what is the orange stuff? Im guessing it is to fill small dings and what not.

[TE 450 Pilot]

forgive my ignorance, but what is the orange stuff? Im guessing it is to fill small dings and what not.

It is spot putty. You are right is is used on small dings less then 1/8 deep.

[Retro Rocket]

I'm not a big fan of spot or blade putty, it tends to shrink a bit over time and will damage your paint. The only time i use fillers is directly on the metal surface to make sure it gets a proper bond, if there are blemishes after that i would use spray putty, {primer surfacer}

Mick

[TE 450 Pilot]

Well it has been a long time since i updated here.

My wife , who works in auto parts is now out of work Her factory is likely going to close. My job has my hours cut to 32 a week now.

At this point i am just going to try to get the bike so i can ride it this summer and i hope to do the motor work next winter. I had the chrome removed from the fenders and grab bar as well as the taillight for the tidy sum of $300.00. In all the paint job came to over $700.00 with me doing all the prep work and a friend doing the painting. I have had a Mac exhaust on order for over 3 months now and am about to give up and ask for my deposit back then try to order from someplace else.

A big thanks to member Richard Hykawy who got me the paint codes.

[FunJimmy]

Randy

Sorry to hear about the employment situation. Try to keep your chin up and remenber the glass is half full.

BTW. Love the color. Yellow was on my short list too.

Cheers
FJ

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Randy,

Sorry to hear about your and your wife's job situations.  It's frightening how quickly things have gone downward.

Your paint looks great.  The bumblebee bike is coming along nicely.

Don

[dagersh]

Randy,

Is that Parakeet Yellow, which was used on the 1976 CB400F?

Looking great, BTW!

Gersh

[heffay]

Where do I start ?

i think the best place to start was in that great looking shop!  but, i think you've  figured that out.   

nothin' like yellow to wake up the inattentive drivers!     i like it. 

keep us posted.

[TE 450 Pilot]

Thanks for the replies guys. This forum has a way of picking up a guy's spirits

I am stuck with the exhaust problem. Mac has not run my exhaust for a while and they are out of stock for months. I have two sets of stock headers but no mufflers for them. I have been thinking about having the stock headers re chromed or the chrome just striped and painting them. I would have to find some kind of slip on muffler.

Are there any other exhaust choices for the 1976 550F?

[TE 450 Pilot]

I am still trying to get an exhaust for this bike,,, any ideas ?

Has anyone used their stock header and made their own muffler ? I am thinking of taking the stock header to work this week and trying to get the dent out of it.

Randy

[moham]

I believe you have a pretty wide range available for 550 (incl all years of 550 and the 500 spacing should be the same as well). Here is an ebay link:


http://motors.shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories?_nkw=550+honda+exhaust&_sacat=10063&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313&_odkw=&_osacat=__10063

If you're patient (and use auctionsniper) then you can find something reasonable...

[TE 450 Pilot]

I was looking for a aftermarket but have had no luck. I have two stock headers in decent shape. I have ordered a slip on MAC muffler and if it shows up I will have the old chrome removed on one header and repair a few dents i it. I think i will just paint it flat black & use it with the new chrome muffler.

I had a bit of time on the weekend and sat a few parts on the bike to see what it is going to look like when done...

[TE 450 Pilot]

I spent a lot of time working on my shop in the fall & did not get much work done on the bike. The good news is i have my work on the shop done and heated now. This is a winter project since i ride dirt bikes in the summer. Anyway , here is some progress as i get back to work on this bike.

Exhaust started out kinda rough.




I cut off the rusted part and sanded down the header. Sanding off all of the chrome and the rust.

There is a long dent in one of the collectors that i will have to pull out.


Connie < my wife> washed the exhaust down with metal prep after i did the main sanding.


I did a quick test fit to see where to weld the adaptor that goes to the muffler.


I'm going to do all the repairs to the exhaust then paint the header with high heat black and leave the muffler chrome.

[TE 450 Pilot]

New exhaust end and hanger tack welded after a test fit.


Pulling out some of the dent in the exhaust


Hanging up to paint in the paint booth at work


Just got to dry after touching up some paint and its ready to install.


Slow progress but it is progress  =D>