Author Topic: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"  (Read 47273 times)

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Offline mkramer1121

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2009, 10:21:12 AM »
your missing a swift kick to the shin

:D

Offline TwoTired

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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2009, 06:38:47 PM »
edited to add this link :)


even polished the oil filter , and i never posted a new pic of the horn mounts once adjusted a little, much better i think




« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 04:26:43 PM by spikeybike »

Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #103 on: January 25, 2009, 08:38:17 PM »
when doing the exhaust wrap i put it close to the end thinking the clamps would hold it, that didn't work out so good. the half moon thingies (can't remember what there called) didn't fit so i had to cut it ,



thats how much ya need




and if your wondering , yes , my one knee was itchy for the rest of the day  ;D ;D


Offline scondon

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #104 on: January 26, 2009, 06:34:33 AM »
   Thanks for the close-ups on the header wrap, Spikey. Nice touch with the metal strip fasteners. How many separate strips of wrap did it take? One for each pipe, one at each 2-1 joint, and one at the 4-1 collector? Someday I'll be trying this.

     Bad day?Pour yourself a big bowl of Gravy Train and hang out with the dog a while, works for me ;) :)
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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #105 on: January 26, 2009, 10:56:12 AM »
   Thanks for the close-ups on the header wrap, Spikey. Nice touch with the metal strip fasteners. How many separate strips of wrap did it take? One for each pipe, one at each 2-1 joint, and one at the 4-1 collector? Someday I'll be trying this.

 

one strip down the first pipe, to just after they meet up ,then the strip on the next pipe was longer to go over both pipes without stopping, the stainless strap in that area was a "just in case"   then repeated for the other two pipes, the collector has it's own piece,  the clamps on the top by the head are most likely not necessary , but i had 4 left over and they look cool and weren't cheap so i threw um on there 

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #106 on: January 26, 2009, 12:11:38 PM »
Lookin good spike... gets better every time I see it!!
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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2009, 04:07:06 PM »
ok so the verdict is in ,     i think i may have over ported


i've been doing some final touches in the past few days , getting the bike ready for first run with the ported head ,   i haven't synced the carbs yet (i'm fired i know)  and my brother's timing light is too fancy for me to figure out (fancy Snap-On with buttons and knobs all over it )  so the timing isn't perfect (but close)

...BUT...  today in the windy city it was 65 degrees and sunny , so i just couldn't help myself i had to take it out (according to the weather man, this lovely warm spell will be history by the weekend and we all get to be reminded that it's still winter)

 at mid -high RPMs (i didn't take it too high..like 7 or 8 )  ...#$%*ing bike was all over it,  my butt dyno was very impressed , but at low (4 and under) it was a total bear, no smooth take offs at all.  ... idle was too high... glub glub glub glub ,,and all of a sudden  ..WWRRRAAAAAA !!!! 

i like going fast and all, but geez, i think i might have gone a little over board.

unless you guys think the carbs are that off,    oh and just like whats been said about ported heads in other threads,  that whole "snapping the throttle back" is gone .. gotta ease into it now ....i get to learn how to ride this thing all over again
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 04:14:53 PM by spikeybike »

Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2009, 04:22:52 PM »
OH and i almost for got to add
(from another thread)
   I've been using copious amounts of VHT 2000degree paint to coat the inside of my headers. I don't know about the rust preventing qualities of this paint but the smoke and the smell of the very first start-up are not to be missed.

HOLY #$%* DUDE  ....scondon, i had noooo idea, jeeesus, damn things were pouring out smoke for a good 2-5 minutes , i killed the bike cause i thought it was on fire ;D
and the smell ... good god man .... needless to say the bike sat out in the driveway for awhile   ...  anyone wanting to try this ..you have been warned  :D ;)

Offline scondon

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #109 on: February 10, 2009, 04:58:41 PM »
OH and i almost for got to add
(from another thread)
   I've been using copious amounts of VHT 2000degree paint to coat the inside of my headers. I don't know about the rust preventing qualities of this paint but the smoke and the smell of the very first start-up are not to be missed.

HOLY #$%* DUDE  ....scondon, i had noooo idea, jeeesus, damn things were pouring out smoke for a good 2-5 minutes , i killed the bike cause i thought it was on fire ;D
and the smell ... good god man .... needless to say the bike sat out in the driveway for awhile   ...  anyone wanting to try this ..you have been warned  :D ;)

    Ride it around the neighborhood and share the love, Spikey ;) :D  After you've shut it down, the paint will cure a bit from the heat. Smoke should be diminished considerably by next start-up. Smell and smoke should be gone after 20 min. ride following the curing process.

    I've come to associate the smell of VHT with the victory of a fresh build. Whiff..........aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!
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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #110 on: February 10, 2009, 06:39:50 PM »
  Ride it around the neighborhood and share the love, Spikey ;)

i just crop dusted a nice square block  ;D ;D

(i'm thinking that my carbs are more out of sync then i am giving them credit for ::) )

Offline martino1972

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #111 on: February 11, 2009, 10:27:14 AM »
you probably will have to drop the carb needles a bit..... due to the porting,it draws in more air and thus more fuel.... but on lower r.p.m. it's too much for the engine to handle and it floods itself....
another thing is.that with this better breathing engine it might be that the exhaust is too restricted now,engine can't get rid of all it's air fast enough...but that would be more a high r.p.m. problem i would think....
not really such a thing as over porting,as long as you kept a balance between intake and exhaust porting...
it's just a new game of getting her set right again......
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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #112 on: February 11, 2009, 10:51:47 AM »
i was thinking it would have to go up one.... more air flow= the need for more fuel ,  this is a strange learning curve i'm on  ;D     i think the mains are ok at 110,  very responsive in the half to 3/4 throttle range

i did raise the needle one notch already , once i get the carbs all synced up i'll take for another spin and see what happens,  i also have to get my brother over to show me how this new-fangled timing light works 

Offline martino1972

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #113 on: February 12, 2009, 12:52:55 AM »
more airflow in is correct....but you should be thinking : more air/fuel mixture sucking in...!!!!    i keep saying needle down....but don't listen to me,listen to your bike,its talking to ya...... ;D
 
Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
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Offline oldfett

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #114 on: February 12, 2009, 08:28:01 AM »
I'm curious about Mr. Spikey's problem, can you over port a head? Hopefully you get it all fixed and out cruisin in no time.

Offline ProTeal55

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #115 on: February 12, 2009, 08:55:08 AM »
Congrats on the bike Spikey !
Look forward to seeing it (and you) around this summer..

And for the record you cant over port a head, just have to add the right amount of air/fuel (carbs wise) to get the benefit outta it..
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

Offline scondon

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #116 on: February 12, 2009, 09:29:35 AM »
   Ignition timing could be playing a role in what's happening, Spikey. I forget which type of ignition you're running, but will assume a dyna S. With porting, pods, exhaust, and cam changes the high rpm, advanced timing performance is pretty wicked and not very finnicky about tune. Idle to mid range may take a bit of dialing in and I usually start with ignition before moving on to jetting, etc.

    With above mentioned mods, the carbs are usually jetted richer than stock and my first instinct was to advance timing in order to facilitate a full burn of this richer mixture. Turns out this was the opposite of what I needed to do. Retarding the timing improved my low end. I've been setting my advance timing to the left-most mark and having idle fall just to the left of "F", and this has improved "city" riding. The Dyna S doesn't have quite the advance curve as a stock ignition, so if timing has been set on advance, the "F" timing will fall to the right in most cases, which doesn't help much for city riding.

      Carb synch is another thing that matters less at higher throttle ranges, but will affect lower ranges much more.

       I know the porting has been in the back of your mind as a potential problem, but I would encourage you to set it aside for the moment in order to concentrate on the basics without interference. Having presided over many changes in the engine, and worried over each detail of a build, I tend to get far ahead of myself when determining initial tuning and begin thinking that every problem relates to whatever detail worried me most.

    My final opinion is: Gear tall. Drop a tooth up front or add a couple(few) in back. Give the bike every chance to get things moving at low rpm's. I geared one of my bikes low for highway riding and I hate it around town. The few rpm's gained at highway speeds are not worth the sluggish response at city speeds, and I've actually decreased my mileage with this move.
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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #117 on: February 12, 2009, 10:32:11 AM »
        I know the porting has been in the back of your mind as a potential problem, but I would encourage you to set it aside for the moment in order to concentrate on the basics without interference. Having presided over many changes in the engine, and worried over each detail of a build, I tend to get far ahead of myself when determining initial tuning and begin thinking that every problem relates to whatever detail worried me most.

   

absolutley right my man .very well said

yes it's a DynaS.    i'm gonna set the timing to stock advance, then sync the carbs.  then go back and monkey with the timing a little.     ...and i'll try not worry to much ,thanks ;D

Offline paulages

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #118 on: February 12, 2009, 11:40:00 AM »
Congrats on the bike Spikey !
Look forward to seeing it (and you) around this summer..

And for the record you cant over port a head, just have to add the right amount of air/fuel (carbs wise) to get the benefit outta it..

i'll note that i'm not an expert in port and flow design, but i've read countless articles that disagree with the notion that you can't overport a head. the velocity of the air and how it flows into the head have everything to do with the shape of the port in relation to the valve seat diameter. ideally you want to maintain a venturi shape from the carb through the throat to the valve. going too big can actually decrease air velocity, and there are plenty of flow tests to prove this. it may be true that these particular ports have enough room to work with that you "can't go to big," but to say that you can't over port in general is erroneous.
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Offline BlindJoe

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #119 on: February 12, 2009, 03:20:19 PM »


   Nozzle:

          > ---->  (air flow)           Decrease Pressure, Increase Velocity

   Diffuser:

           < ---->  (air flow)           Increase Pressure , Decrease Velocity

Fluid dynamics can be fun!.........sometimes

Offline mystic_1

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #120 on: February 12, 2009, 03:28:23 PM »

Bernoulli

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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #121 on: February 22, 2009, 07:55:29 AM »
got a new chrome headlight with my tax return..... not important, just something i always wanted. while i was in there i removed the stems from the turn signals (more work then i thought it would be) so the signals are closer to the headlight (something that has always bothered me )


Offline mystic_1

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #122 on: February 22, 2009, 10:45:36 AM »
Signals look good.  Maybe it's just the angle, but that headlight visor looks a bit too long for my taste.  Also, there's no spikes on it.  :)

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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #123 on: February 22, 2009, 12:16:20 PM »
Maybe it's just the angle, but that headlight visor looks a bit too long for my taste. 
mystic_1

it's weird sometimes i look at it and think the same thing, then other times it seems to fit perfect .... i think it's all the angle look at it ...   

Offline Spikeybike

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Re: One More Chapter in the Epic Story That is "THE PHOENIX"
« Reply #124 on: February 22, 2009, 12:29:06 PM »
oh yeah, and the reason it looks too big is .... because it is.   

it was for a 7 1/2" light , but i bent it a little and made it fit.     i would love one of Carpy's visors with the stamped edge, but just can't bring myself to give that guy any money
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 01:24:24 PM by spikeybike »