Topic: Skulls, Life, Death and Motorcycles

[Frankenkit]

So... when did skulls and motorcycles really start coming together, and why?  These days you can hardly go into a Harley boutique (or any cruiser accessorizing place) and throw a stone without hitting a chromed skull.  I wonder why these came to be so entwined in bike culture and when it started happening. 

What I really like about the old Hondas is they seem removed from that, especially in Soichiro's mental concepts of design,the tank stripe following the curve of the Buddha's eyebrow in a revered statue, etc. 

For me, my bike is a celebration of life, and a reminder that (ala Braveheart) everyone dies, but not everyone really lives.  It's me taking control of my life and doing things that might scare me a little, just because I'm lucky to have the chance.

What does all this mean to you?

[kghost]

Well thats an interesting point there Kit.

Thats why I don't go to rallys and such...very much a "lifestyle" thing.

I find the vintage folks are a different breed of cat (if you will)

Its alot more about bikes and building bikes then the cruiser crowd.

I'm a big fan of the Golden Ratio or Divine proportions if you will....

Dunno about the stripe and buddhas eyebrow... but its a pleasing stripe none the less

[Frankenkit]

I designed the lines on the side of the Dream C70 gas tank with a picture in my mind of the curve from the eyebrow to the nose on a figure of the Buddha.

came from this article:
http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/originality/text/02.html

but that's for the C70 Dream.

Still, it's decidedly life-centric.

[pdxPope]

Not sure when the skull thing became fashionable with the bike crowd, but I have some ideas.

Perhaps its a reminder that when riding, we are all only seconds or inches (or both) from death. It's a reminder of our own mortality. Don't take the bike or it's power for granted, all those horses hurtling you along at 80mph could just as easily bite you in the ass as get you home.

As for the badass Harley wannabe biker contingent. I think they just adopted the skull as one more fashion accessory to show the world what a bunch of 1% dentists look like. Ditto for the all imposing chrome skull. I think it's hilarious that they want to put so much chrome on thier bikes. I have a distinct feeling that if Willie G could get away with chroming one of his big, post burrito floaters, it'd show up in the '09 catalog. 

But that's just me...

-JP

[Steve F]

I have a distinct feeling that if Willie G could get away with chroming one of his big, post burrito floaters, it'd show up in the '09 catalog. 

But that's just me...-JP

Harley has been chroming those things for decades, where have you been?  You just can't polish one.    As far as them being floaters, I'm not too sure since they're considered "boat anchors".

[alltherightpills]

I always want to ask them if the skulls are supposed to be scary.

But I've made it this far in life without getting whooped for being a smartass, so maybe I'll just keep those comments to myself.

I think I might put two of these on my bike (like the POW/MIA or American flags on the backs of baggers)



and light matches in my beard to intimidate my enemies.  

[mattcoff1]

Yea its kinda weird...I think that the skull stuff evolved from people that came back home after ww2 kinda bomber nose art  deaths head type kind of thing.
But now..."Wow man cool chrome skull headlight thingy"
I have three bikes, my 750 thats all cafed for zippin and zoomin around that i built in the winter of 07
An yamaha xs 650 that i'm not finished building
And a 2007 yamaha roadstar that is for my favorite thing...Wandering around the usa without a set plan. To me there is nothing better than the feeling when i am 3 days away from home and wake up and keep going further...
I am taking 3 weeks maybe longer off from work this july for a cross country trip guys have asked me "are you going to sturgis? I'll be sure to stay at least 300 miles away from that crowd...

[Demon67]

When I was a kid the big thing for all the hard outsiders was a ring that was a skull, that was of course to denote that you were hard as nails and dangerous as hell and I think it came from earrings worn by the survivors of the International Brigade or the Chindits (not sure which) who were dangerous and hard, so to shock the squares the rings started to appear and morphed int to skulls of all types ( always wondered what happened when the posers ran into the real thing) so you could get an ashtray in the shape of a skull and I suspect the some one said I've got to have one on my bicycle and then when they got old enough to drive it got mounted on their bike and all the new breed of posers said I've got to have one of them I remember uncle Ferdy had one of them, beside isn't the same as straight through pipes make you're bike go faster.
Bill the demon.

[Caaveman82]

Bill, who is uncle Ferdy? lmao

I think ol Bill is on to it though. I think it started as a warning if you will, "Hey I'm a hard@$$, don't mess with me", and evolved into the 1% dentist thing like PDX said... bunch of jerk off guys in a mid life crisis wanted to be hard too, like "uncle Ferdy". lol

Pills.. that picture looks like an old school pirate flag. That was dumb, I guess there is no other type than old school, but any way, you get my meaning.

[Skonnie Boy]

I think the only people who should wear skull paraphernalia are pirates.  Not like halloween ones, I mean real maritime pirates.  Like in Somalia.

And if you do decide to wear skull attire, remember:  A little skull goes a long way.  Just like bright color and KY jelly.

[Duke McDukiedook]

AAArrrrrrggghhhhh!! Who be makin' fun of me skulls and bones!

I'll banish ye to Davey Jones's locker! AArrggh!

[alltherightpills]

Pills.. that picture looks like an old school pirate flag. That was dumb, I guess there is no other type than old school, but any way, you get my meaning.

Yep, that's the flag that Blackbeard flew.  (Blackbeard also lit matches in his massive black beard to intimidate people)

[Caaveman82]

Pills.. that picture looks like an old school pirate flag. That was dumb, I guess there is no other type than old school, but any way, you get my meaning.

Yep, that's the flag that Blackbeard flew.  (Blackbeard also lit matches in his massive black beard to intimidate people)

I thought it looked familure. I had a pirate phase when I was a kid. I did not ever hear about the matches though. That is hilarious however.

[UnCrash]

I thought about replying to this thread a couple days ago but didn't have anything insightful to say other than
"I don't get it."

Yesterday when riding home from work I approached a guy in his late 20's on a brand new Harley Crossbones (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/349/1365/Motorcycle-Article/Harley-Davidson-Cross-Bones-First-Look.aspx)  He was on the other side of a small intersection facing me.  Half helmet and no glasses..... I was in full gear with my gi-normous fairing and bags.  I gave him the friendly motorcycle wave, he looked at me with a blank stare. 

I have been riding here in Maine for the last three weeks, unless the black ice was really scary.  He seemed to be having a hard time keeping his bike upright...  even at the stop sign, as his bars were canted forward a bit from stock.

Anyway, I was really stumped.  He had a big skull on the top of his half helmet.  It made me think of this thread, and I still don't have anything great to say but.  I don't get it.  I don't get him, and I hope he doesn't kill himself...

[Demon67]

Further thoughts on skull earring I was out with my mother and father in a restaurant when I was I think about 4-5 years old and there was an old guy siting at the next table with a skull earring and I'd never seen a man wear an earring before so I stared at him and asked dumb questions about it, my old man said don't stare and said they showed that he was a veteran of ? I think he said International Brigade but I'm not sure I know the old man was impressed as all get out (the first time in my life that I had ever seen my father impressed about any thing ) and I'm sure it happened before the end of WW2 so that should lend historical perspective.
Bill the Demon.

[cormier1989]

hey uncrash, why would a cool guy on a harley want to wave to some loser on a jap bike!? ... I feel that thats the mentality with that crowd. My step dad has a 68' harley davidson shovelhead that he bobbed and chopped and he doesnt like the harley crowd either. I hate the mind set that unless you have the biggest fattest harley that you suck and your not really into bikes. It makes me laugh to see all the people who think the know what riding a motorcycle is about. My opinion is that as long as your riding... who cares. remeber that these are the same people who sport the skull and crossbones, wear things that say"ride to live, live to ride" and when times get tough the first thing they sell is their bike. Not to mension that most of them have never seen their bike without a tank and seat on it, much less the engine out of it.

[Shenanigans]

"Skulls are tuff, man. Their hardcore, I'M hard core...."






 

[Ichiban 4]

So... when did skulls and motorcycles really start coming together, and why?  These days you can hardly go into a Harley boutique (or any cruiser accessorizing place) and throw a stone without hitting a chromed skull.  I wonder why these came to be so entwined in bike culture and when it started happening. 

What I really like about the old Honda's is they seem removed from that, especially in Soichiro's mental concepts of design, the tank stripe following the curve of the Buddha's eyebrow in a revered statue, etc. 
_________________________________________________________

Interesting questions Kit..

Got me to thinking about what I know/saw with the rise of Hell's Angels in my home town San Bernardino..then the rise of Honda dealerships in nearby Los Angeles area..as I was growing up later on.

As far as the skull/deaths head thing..I think that some other posts said it correctly..that it was carry-over from WWII..how the bomber crews used to paint logos on their planes.  Then the biker outlaw types..many of whom were actually vets from WWII.. apparently adopted it.
________________________________________________________
 
For me, my bike is a celebration of life, and a reminder that (ala Braveheart) everyone dies, but not everyone really lives.  It's me taking control of my life and doing things that might scare me a little, just because I'm lucky to have the chance.

What does all this mean to you?

_________________________________________________________

Flash forward to the late 50's-early 60's..when I was actually old enough to ride..be moderately aware of what was happening in the biker world (joined the AMA for first time)..the whole Honda marketing thing came along. [I personally feel that if Honda..the other Japanese bikes with their marketing schemes hadn't come along at that time..motorcycling would have been relegated to a small number of outlaw types and cops primarily..@ least in the U.S.].

Being a Buddhist myself..and having actually seen lots of Japanese architecture..I feel Soichiro was definitely coming from a kinder, gentler sort of place in his approach to motorcycling.

Think you nailed it in saying that with Japanese..in the East generally..they tend to celebrate life IN THE MOMENT more (also value harmony with nature)..whereas with the kinda disillusioned WWII vets..they were more or less rebelling against all the stuff they saw and experienced..especially with the Hell's Angel's and that entire outlaw biker mentality.

But here's a question I have for others reading this: although the outlaw biker mentality is @ least understandable from the post WWII veteran's perspective..what's the excuse for all the outlaw bikers and/or wannabe's today?

Domo,

Ichi

[Frankenkit]

They're rebelling against being forced to live for the future and the paycheck... Outlaw MDs, DDs, and businessmen etc who went many sleepless nights for years and years of college to be professional and straight-laced (at least in relative terms) when probably a lot of their contemporaries did their two/four years and went into something else.  It's the screaming lament of the man behind the white picket fence; the desire to live a real life in the real moment, and they don't know how to do that if they're not shelling out big money and putting on the trappings of an entirely different life.

[benly- ben]

For me, my bike is a celebration of life, and a reminder that (ala Braveheart) everyone dies, but not everyone really lives.  It's me taking control of my life and doing things that might scare me a little, just because I'm lucky to have the chance.

Wow, now I know how to explain to people, that like cars, why I like bikes So much!!
thanks Kit!!

[HavocTurbo]

For me, my bike is a celebration of life, and a reminder that (ala Braveheart) everyone dies, but not everyone really lives.  It's me taking control of my life and doing things that might scare me a little, just because I'm lucky to have the chance.

Wow, now I know how to explain to people, that like cars, why I like bikes So much!!
thanks Kit!!

Drive a Noble there Ben...... You'll start to like cars again. Or a Lotus. Or a Pagani Zonda.

The last two might cost you a bit though. 


I don't use skulls, or any of that unless the customer asks. When a customer says build me what ever "YOU" want to build... It's more of a machine focus. Every nut bolt and screw is visible.

It's only when they ask for things like skulls and crosses that I would use them. I'm ashamed to say it but I even made a swastica (sp?) back rest for a customer.

I'm not proud of it, but he did pay me enough to keep the electricity on for another two months.

[Frankenkit]

Probably not this guy  He has some work cut out for him.  I saw him on BMEzine quite some time ago... dedicated to the restoration of the swastika to its uses pre-WWII... but I strongly suspect their image has been marred in the collective consciousness for a very, very long time.

(Edited to say that though it's a good article, there's a pic in it that is NSFW)

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

I guess I always thought the skulls were kind of saying "not even death will stop me from riding".

Just like everything else that once meant something cool skulls have been over used and the real meaning is lost forever.

 I do agree that there is a lot of bikers that just wear certain things because they want to pretend they are something they are not.

 I would like to point out the exceptions to the rule.



That's my Dad, Brother and me at the beginning of a 3,000 mile 11 day ride. The bike on the left is my Brother's jap bike and the white springer is the bike my Dad lets me ride when we take trips together.

We road 300-450 miles a day and slept in tents at night. I can't think of a more "biker" thing to do. Don't get me wrong, knee dragging on my CB400four is more fun IMO, but to really get out there and cover some ground I'd prefer a bike cushy seat and relaxed riding position. 

[Demon67]

yeah Kit it's funny that once what was a symbol of the 1%r's is now taken over by the people that used to put the "lower classes" down, because I suspect that they now don't feel any more in control of their lives than the people they used to make fun of. Interesting. I suppose that if I live to 150 the cycle will repeat itself a couple of more times, the same as the cycle of teenage girls looking more like hookers than hookers, it's too bad that we seem to have to take on the trappings of rebellion but not the rebellion its self.
Enough I've got to go to work on the dishes, get them washed that is.
Bill the demon.

[kghost]

Probably not this guy  He has some work cut out for him.  I saw him on BMEzine quite some time ago... dedicated to the restoration of the swastika to its uses pre-WWII... but I strongly suspect their image has been marred in the collective consciousness for a very, very long time.

(Edited to say that though it's a good article, there's a pic in it that is NSFW)

Sorry Kit....this part really cracked me up....

I had a series of spontaneous trance visions in which my soul flew up into the inner source of everything—a radiant light that was extremely ecstatic. It blessed me, it healed me in a profound way. In some of the visions it was a vortex of power. After this the swastika appeared in my dreams and in one very powerful moment a wise old man told me, "Take this symbol as your own and redeem it so that it will strike love in all hearts that behold it." I choked and he marked my throat with a white swastika (which I later had tattooed) using his finger.

I loved this part...Crazy? Who the swastika guy? Surely you jest.....

One time an old man approached me on the street threatening to whack me with his cane and calling me a fascist. I began telling him about the history of the swastika and soon he was using his cane to keep me away as if I was truly crazy.

I liked this part too....

I haven’t emailed the Jewish Defense League. No point in provoking people. I’m out to re-educate not to be intentionally a #$%*-disturber.

"suddenly they see this defiant guy tattooed with 200 swastikas and a third eye and the light goes on."


And it goes on...Gang-banged by Holiness? Huh? WTF?

Gyrus: Some of your artwork is outrageously sexual! Also, you described your initial visionary experiences as being ‘gang-banged by holiness’. A lot of people must have a whole series of cultural barriers to leap before they appreciate your work!

ManWoman: Yes, that was a series where I was trying to exorcise the Catholic nineteen fifties sexual hang-ups I inherited and had dragged behind me for years. You can leave church but does it leave you? I called it Smut Therapy where the paintings were the therapy. I was raised on a bully god who was pleased if you were dead from the neck down. He created you imperfect and then was pissed off when you acted imperfect—go figure!

My visionary experiences were of a sweet bride soul ascending up into the ecstatic light—burning up, freed of ego and melting into oneness. But the other aspect, unspoken at the time, was that this plunge of my soul into the void of pure pleasure was just like the plunge of my penis into a juicy vagina and the explosion of my sperm up into the womb of the sacred.

Pretty humorous....

Sorry I'll go ride my bike now...sans Skulls or Swastikas....just the ol' honda wing.

Thats my sacred mystical symbol....