Author Topic: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie  (Read 317579 times)

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Offline malcolmgb

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #125 on: April 07, 2010, 05:32:30 AM »
In my opinion hammering the pin is a no-no, as Rich362 says clamp the flat part of pin in vice, that will sink any heat from it allowing aluminium to expand more, I used a hot air paint stripping gun and a penetrating oil, then just keep pivoting back and fore to eventually free up.
Malcolm

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Offline supersports400

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #126 on: April 07, 2010, 11:54:41 AM »
Just make sure that the side of the pin that has to go true, is round and doesn't have any artifacts.
Make the aluminum hot, like stated in previous mails, and let the penetrating do it's job, never hammer, but a press would help (after making it hot)

Jensen

Offline fastbroshi

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #127 on: April 07, 2010, 12:31:53 PM »
In my opinion hammering the pin is a no-no, as Rich362 says clamp the flat part of pin in vice, that will sink any heat from it allowing aluminium to expand more, I used a hot air paint stripping gun and a penetrating oil, then just keep pivoting back and fore to eventually free up.

  Why would that be a no no Malcolm?  I know it's only the orings keeping it in there anyway, and the shock from a couple of blows would probably do the trick.  Within reason that is.  I'm not saying whack the crap out of it like it's a bearing or anything.
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Offline supersports400

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #128 on: April 07, 2010, 12:36:18 PM »
Hammering would make the diameter of the pin bigger, precisely there where you want to slide it through, if you hammer, just use a piece of wood, or a plastic hammer,

Jensen

Offline RickB

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #129 on: April 07, 2010, 06:23:48 PM »
Hey guys,

So last night I had the marvelous help of my girlfriends engineering farther. He had the right tools, experience and patience.

We got the fork lower hex bolts out. I took the springs out, cut a broom stick in half and used it to hold pressure against the under seat pipe using a large clamp. It worked straight away.

As for the brake caliper pivot arm and pin, we again heated the alloy, used some metal to hold the arm whilst we used a copper rod to bang it out with a hammer. The pin is a little mushroomed, but I think that was from my earlier, cruder attempts. So I might have to mill it along with the inner sleeve off the swingarm, it's all a bit rough.

The brake caliper bleed screw and seized piston is being taken into his shop to be done. So I'm hoping I don't have to helicoil it.

I think I'm going to get the fork lowers hydro-blasted with some other bits and pieces, I'm not happy with how the sanding is looking.

I should get to work on the bike some more this weekend, so I'll have some photos then.

Rick.

Offline HedNut

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #130 on: April 08, 2010, 08:47:39 AM »
Oh this is good stuff... I'll be diving into the same area soon!  I got lucky with the caliper, bleeder came out after some work, and I grease pumped the piston out... turns out what was siezed was the actual Pad Backing into the caliper...the piston was in excellent shape.  An air gun wouldn't work for me.
  But my caliper/fork arm is siezed bad...and has quite the scary build up of rust and scale around it...so I'm reading this with great interest!  Your project is looking/sounding Great!
Cheers!

Offline strynboen

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #131 on: April 08, 2010, 10:54:55 AM »
that grease pumping are simpel ..just find a nippel ,,and pump it aut...vhy paing other for that easy job..i have get my engine bolts aut vith some heat.and carefull hammer..thats the only vay,,vith oxiting aluminium,,and rusty bolts
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 10:56:38 AM by strynboen »
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Offline horror

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #132 on: April 11, 2010, 03:58:51 PM »
This is a good thread, I have just got a 400 in rough shape. The front caliper had the same problems. I was lucky getting the nipple out.
I used tons of wd40 and carefully went back and fourth with the socket in tiny increments, untill it came loose.
The brae pad was ciesed in also, father heated it with a blowtorch and soaked it with wd40 also, kept heating and soaing and taping with a hammer until it came loose. most of te pad was gouged away to the back plate the it came out. The piston came out just by squirting compressed air into the caliper. But it flew out across the garden and sustained slight damage as it hit the ground.

The rubber diaphram in my brake fluid resevoir has turned to goo for some reason. the bike had no fluid in it at all.

Offline dougiee

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #133 on: April 12, 2010, 03:51:11 AM »
Hey guys,

Just put in a big parts order for my engine at DSS. Jensen has been great in talking me through some of the technical stuff and is even helping me track downa NOS camshaft. Thanks mate!

Here's the parts list if anyone is interested.

1 x Camchain
1 x Primary chain
2 x Inlet manifold rubber for Cylinders No. 1 or No. 4
2 x Inlet manifold rubber for Cylinders No. 2 or No. 3
4 x Piston kit for One cylinder, 0.25mm oversize
1 x Points cover and gasket
1 x Generator cover screw set
1 x Generator cover badge
1 x Drive sprocket, Rear
1 x Drive sprocket, Front
8 x Rocker arm
4 x Spark plug NGK DR8ESL
8 x Tappet cap
1 x PLATE,FIXING
1 x Camchain tensioner blade
1 x Camchain guide blade
1 x Oil filter
1 x Engine oil seal kit

Rick.

Hi Rick
I'm in Sydney and have built a CB350F
There is a guy out in western Sydney who has a hanger full of parts of old jap bikes,
That's where I got most of mine. he has everything and price is awesome.

also there is Bert Kingston performance in brisbane. they sell new parts. like gaskets engine parts etc.
Very good also

pm me if you want the contacts for both

Cheers Doug


Offline RickB

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #134 on: April 15, 2010, 06:17:42 AM »
Thanks for the replies fellas. Dougie, I called that Sydney bloke and left a message. I'm looking forward to getting a hold of him. Thanks for that.

I got the brake caliper back from the girlfriends dad. What a great job. I'll take photos tomorrow. So now I get to sand and paint that. I have seals, new pads and even a bleed screw (I had to check my very first order with DSS, it was there. I guess I was thinking ahead for a change!).

But the big question is, what color do I paint the tank and side covers? I've dropped them off at the body shop and they need a decision. I'm freaking out. I had originally intended to go silver like my 'inspiration bike' that Doug built. However I'm leaning away from that now as I think it doesn't have enough contrast. It's too silver. Then I swayed back to 'keep it stock' and go with the original CB400F Light Ruby Red. However the tank I'm using is from the 350F, which was Flake Matador Red. So that isn't going to work. I think I have to abandon the religious 'keep it stock' approach and go with something that is of suitable vintage. So I'm now leaning towards the classic Honda RC Racer red. I just want this bike to be understand, classic and respectful to it's vintage. Any ideas on tank colors and any pinstripe/detailing would be a great help. It's zero hour and my plan has gone out the window!

Ideally I'd like to be able to take this bike back to stock one day if I wanted too. So I'll keep the airbox, fenders, handlebars etc for something to work on when the 'cafe' bike is finished.

Rick.

Offline RickB

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #135 on: April 26, 2010, 01:25:39 AM »
Hey guys,

It's been a while between updates. Work's been busy and I'm pouring money into engine parts (new valves, springs etc) so I haven't been in the shed for a while. But things are moving nonetheless.

But first, I went to the Tyabb airshow with my little brother. Amazing old Spitfires, Kittyhawks and even an Australian built Mustang and Boomerang. Great sounds from those last two. But they had some old cars and bikes there, so I snapped some quick shots.



RAAF Kittyhawk, Spitfire, Boomerang and Mustang.



I've recently read Roald Dahl's 'Going Solo' in which he pilots a Hurricane in Greece. Seeing as there is only one Hurricane in the southern hemisphere and that's in New Zealand, I had to settle for the Kittyhawk.













Now that the pretty ones are out of the way, here's mine.



I'm going to paint the spokes and rim of this black. You can see the slight pitting left by the rust in the disc. The guy who did the reface and tidy up, 'Mad Max' at Planet Tooling in Wantirna South, said it wouldn't impact performance. What a great guy. Him and his old mate just doing motorcycle brakes. Max has got to be in his 60's. He drives a hotted up Subaru WRX STI with custom turbo and a million other upgrades done to it. He hang glides. Just a great guy. For someone my age (26), it's great to meet these old bike guys and marvel at the knowledge these guys have.



So my girlfriends Dad's mate Richard was able to get the busted bleed screw out. Fantastic work.



Richard even made a grease nipple to remove the stuck brake piston. He let me keep it. Such friendly and helpful people.



The brake piston. I'm not sure if this pitting requires a new piston, but it certainly doesn't fit easily back in the caliper casing. So I think I might buy a new one, considering the front disc is doing most of the stopping.



Did my best to clean out the caliper house. I'm still not happy with it, there's so much gunk in the seal rim. So I've had it soaking in brake fluid for the last two days, I hope that cleans it all out.



Makeshift spray booth. Second coats on my brake pressure switch holder (not sure if I'm going to use the stock 2-piece hose and switch setup but might as well paint it) and inside brake caliper. Using high temp engine casing paint. I really should be baking these, instead I've let them dry for a week and will give them a few coats.



Got my forks in with a bit of frustration. I had to loosen up the head-stem and grease and heat the triple tree clamps to pressure the forks in. I found it easier to push down on the handle bars with the forks against a block on the bench rather than trying to push up on the forks. It's a pity my wheel hubs and fork lowers are at the hydroblasters otherwise I might have been able to get this baby rolling. I'm going to replace the rusted screws with allen bolts I have coming. Eventually I'd like to clean the originals up and have them zinc coated, but for now I'm going to try the allen bolt route.



My forks have some slight pitting on then. I ran some 1200 wet n' dry over then, but it starts to cloud up the chrome. It's not pitted down near the seals, so I think I'll have to live with them until I can afford new tubes one day.



Headlight is on. So stoked on that. Now I have to sort out my wiring, which is intimidating. I'm going to try and do this a little cleaner than the stock wiring. That nest of wires near the horn has to go. Trouble is, now can't remember where it's all supposed to go. Switches I think. As soon as I get all the engine parts ordered, I want to get indicators and gauges and so I can get stuck into all these mess.

Rick.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 03:48:57 AM by RickB »

Offline Hush

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #136 on: April 27, 2010, 01:33:00 AM »
The Kittyhawke is a favorite of mine, my late Uncle Stanley Broadbent flew them during WW2 unfortunately according to his wingman he went inverted into the hills of Bouganville aboard one. Initially he was burried where he crashed by a party of passing Kiwi soldiers but the local natives were worried about this white man being burried in their hills so they carried him all the way down to the nearest airfield.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline HedNut

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #137 on: May 06, 2010, 03:50:07 AM »
Looking fantastic man!!...love those old indians!

Offline RickB

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2010, 05:35:50 PM »
Hey guys,

I found what look like a reasonable set of headers on eBay for $72 buy it now. They're still in transit on the way to me, but I'm confident they're good quality. I don't think the guy selling them really knew what he had. I've seen worse condition sets sell on eBay, and I was bidding on them, go for over $200. So I may have had a win. I'll be sure to take plenty of photos when I get them.

I got a phone call from my engine mechanic yesterday. My wheel hubs, two sets of fork lowers, replacement oil pan and generator casing have come back from the Hydro blaster. $180. That's pretty good considering the amount of time that would take me to do that kind of cleaning and polishing manually.

The really interesting bit of engine news is this. After struggling to determine the correct crank bearing diameter and fit, he took the crank cases to an engineer for a chat. Together they were able to determine that it appears the crank cases aren't a matching set. They may be from two different engines. I hesitate to say it, but this may finally solve the question of my tampered serial number. The crank upper crank case was lifted from another bike and as the serial no longer matched, it was filed off. Regardless, the cases didn't line up and that was a problem. After a lot of measuring and effort, they were able to get the cases lined up correctly by removing some dowel pins. I'm assured that they are happy with it now and I don't need to try and find new crank cases which would essentially mean starting again.

So the enigma that is my CB400F continues!

I should get to work on the bike this weekend so I'll have some photos.

Rick.

Offline fastbroshi

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #139 on: May 16, 2010, 09:40:40 PM »
  Mismatched case halves?  That's a first.  You need a friggin' trophy when this thing is done.  Or a hug or something.
Just call me Timmaaaaay!!!

Offline malcolmgb

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #140 on: May 17, 2010, 02:52:07 AM »
You need a friggin' trophy when this thing is done.  Or a hug or something.

agreed  ;D
Malcolm

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1977 CB400F
1973 CL175 K7
1976 XL175 - Sold
1964 CL72
1966 CA78
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;u=1988

Offline HedNut

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #141 on: May 17, 2010, 10:51:52 AM »
CRAZY! ANd I LOVE IT!!! Keep up the good stuff my man!!!

Offline Holdingfast

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #142 on: May 17, 2010, 02:02:37 PM »
Yeah, you're in for huge trans-atlantic high fives when you're done.

Offline Hush

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #143 on: May 17, 2010, 02:48:53 PM »
Well Rick, what an adventure your bike is turning out to be. :)
You see if you just walked into a bike shop and bought a shiny new plastic coated rice rocket you wouldn't have been down this path, but like the old saying "what does not kill us makes us stronger" so finding out the provenance of your bike can be extremely interesting.
When you have finished you will know your bike intimately and be confident in every part, most riders these days cannot change a plug! ;D
It also pays occasionally to go back to the very begining of your posts and read the way you nearly gave up on the project, the trials and tribulations endured. :D
Well done on your progress so far, I expect to be nominating your bike for Bike of the Month at some stage.
                   Hush.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline RickB

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #144 on: May 17, 2010, 09:22:22 PM »
Thanks guys, you're all an inspiration. Should be putting another $800 order into DSS later this week I hope.

Offline fastbroshi

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #145 on: May 17, 2010, 09:26:03 PM »
Please list what you order here, cuz like, we all gotta know.
Just call me Timmaaaaay!!!

Offline RickB

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #146 on: May 23, 2010, 01:46:34 AM »
Hi everyone,

So I got more parts back from the hydroblaster. I tell ya', don't bother spending hours sanding. For a couple hundred bucks, hydroblasting is so much better than anything I could achieve by hand.





That being said, I need help. I can't decide what to do about painting these. They look so fantastic now that I'm scared to touch them with anything like paint. However I know they will succumb to oxidization eventually if I don't coat them in something. Has anyone been in a situation like this and not coated the aluminum in something? How bad and how quickly does it oxidize? I live within a couple hundred meters of the beach, so I would assume that accelerates the process.

Wingman's thread about his 350 was very helpful (along with his PM advice). I've got my VHT aluminum primer and paint, but I'm just not sure if I should/need to commit to painting all my freshly hydroblasted aluminum, from my master cylinder, fork lowers, wheel hubs and caliper swingarm.

Another issue is the fork lowers and wheel hubs now look like flat aluminum, not  the brushed finish that is stock. So I might have to get on the scotch pad. How good can I expect to get this? Perhaps I should just leave them as is?

Sorry for the winey questions, I'm at a cross-roads and I can't make a decision. I care to much about this bike to screw it up now that I'm putting it back together.

Ahh!!!

Rick.

Offline fastbroshi

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #147 on: May 23, 2010, 04:28:58 AM »
   Polish them up!!  A little bling goes a long way, and keeping them shiny isn't as labor intensive as you might think if you "seal" the pieces somewhat with a good final polish.  Something like say, Mother's mag polish or Simichrome.

    I polished up my side covers on the 550 and in a year and a half I've gone back over them three times.  I've put a bit over 3500 miles on it in that time, once in some pretty nasty weather.   I'm not sure how your beach type climate might affect it though.
Just call me Timmaaaaay!!!

Offline Dunstall_74

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #148 on: May 24, 2010, 10:07:24 PM »
You close the bleeder screw and put a zirc in the brake line hole.

Where might one find a zirc the proper thread size to fit in the brake line hole?  Checked the parts store and can only find 6, 8, and I think 10mm.  All these fittings are pre packaged so I could not physically try them without buying them.  The brake line hole in the caliper takes a 10x1.25x30 and the bleed hole takes a 7x1.00  Having trouble finding a zirc in either size
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Offline RickB

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Re: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #149 on: May 26, 2010, 07:37:04 PM »
Hey guys,

Just a quick update to say I ordered some parts and dropped off my fork lowers to a metal polisher to give them that brushed aluminum finish.

Here's the parts I ordered.

4 x VALVE,INLET
4 x VALVE,EXHAUST !D
8 x Crankshaft big end bearing half shell, Yellow
8 x Crankshaft main bearing half shell, Brown
2 x Crankshaft main bearing half shell, Green
1 x Wheel bearing retainer, Front Left hand
1 x WASHER,LOCK 16M/M
1 x NUT LOCK 16MM
8 x NUT,CONROD*G
1 x RETAINER FR WHEEL*D
1 x Brake caliper adjuster bolt
1 x Brake rod
1 x Drive chain adjuster, bolt and lock nut
1 x Main stand return spring
1 x Side stand return spring
2 x O-RING,9.5X1.7*G
1 x NUT,AXLE,16MM*0
1 x ADJ.,DRIVE CHAIN*G

I still need gauges, indicators, seat-pan and/or seat, rims, cables, levers and lever perches. But this order should finish off the engine.

Rick.