Author Topic: Ever heard of dynabeads?  (Read 45086 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SiliconDoc

  • Guest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #250 on: September 15, 2009, 04:08:50 PM »
I searched through several pages of Google results, I can find only anecdotal evidence of effectiveness.  No tire or vehicle manufactures have posted test results that I could find.

My engineering nature tells me to be skeptical without test result from qualified laboratories or tire manufactures.  I would not use them, I prefer to do things I "know" work, as opposed to things I "think" work.  a fine philosophical line I know, but I drew it and I ain't crossing it.  :)

Beyond my engineers opinion, it is your time, money, and safety do what you want, let us know your result.

 It works just like your washing machine does - the beads are like the water, for instance, in the tub, you spin it, and it flings to the outer sides and the rotation and intertia distributes it evenly.
 Like stirring a 2 quart juice container of koolaid.
Your washing machine can be off balance with one or two large heavy items inside ( don't try this with 1 inch diameter ball bearings inside your tires..), but small rolling moveable balls will even out, just like anything added to a liquid and spun.
---
 We don't need engineers when drinking the koolaid tells us all we need to know.  :P
No, no, no.
This has been gone over before. This is not correct.

Well, yes it is correct. Let's take a heavy wet towel and put in our washing machine on one side clumped up (that represents the chunk of tire and rim that is too heavy on one side/area). Our inner washing machine tub is the inside of the tire. We spin it around and it wobbles like heck.

We open the tp of the washing machine and pour in a thousand small ball bearings, they fall on the wet towel and around it to the tubs bottom ( the inner wall of the tire). Spin it up, and wala, the ball bearings, since they roll around and move, balance the washer.

Now, it is slightly different inside a tire on a bike, because you have GRAVITY to deal with, and the tire is spinning while in a vertical orientation, it's axis perpendicular to gravitational pull instead of aligned with it in the case of the washing machine. However, a side loader washing machine will do the same thing (take out the 3 restrictive bumps that help sling the clothes ) and you'll achieve balance, even with the mass moving toward and away from gravitational pull vector every revolution, like a bike tire.

So sorry, it is THE SAME THING. (except again, for adding the other factor on spin up- movement of the entire mass perpendicular to gravity in the case of the bike- affecting the load of ball bearings or the beads in the spin up)

Then add the road, hills and valleys, bumps, turning and tipping the bike, the flattened tire at the pavement contact point...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 04:10:51 PM by SiliconDoc »

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #251 on: September 15, 2009, 04:16:11 PM »
I already explained this earlier.

Boy howdy! :)
No.


Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #252 on: September 15, 2009, 04:18:39 PM »
Little lead is way cheaper than beads. They saved millions by using the lead.

I would like to know how you came to that conclusion, apart from the fact that lead is getting more and more expensive, what about the cost of the balancing equipment and time taken to balance every wheel on every bike they produce. It would be way more simple and cost effective to use these beads if they were a cure to the balancing problem. Lead balancing is a much more expensive process.

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,690
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #253 on: September 15, 2009, 04:18:49 PM »
A heavier side of the rim and/or tire pulls with MOLECULAR FORCE the cohesive mass of the tire and the rim, whereas the beads do not have the molecular bonding pulling them in the direction of the heavier radial point(more so the rim, less the pliable tire in total mass movement), and therefore tend to "roll away" from the heavier spot ( in actuality they are not pulled toward it, nor pushed toward it by the stretchinging rim(less)or "bulging" in that spot tire(more) since they are not attached to the sidewall nor the rubber, nor the rim.

This is holy #$%* hilarious!!!  :D :D :D

You're kidding, right? Right? Please tell me this comment was made in jest.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

SiliconDoc

  • Guest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #254 on: September 15, 2009, 04:19:44 PM »
Quote
A heavier side of the rim and/or tire pulls with MOLECULAR FORCE the cohesive mass of the tire and the rim, whereas the beads do not have the molecular bonding pulling them in the direction of the heavier radial point(more so the rim, less the pliable tire in total mass movement), and therefore tend to "roll away" from the heavier spot ( in actuality they are not pulled toward it, nor pushed toward it by the stretchinging rim(less)or "bulging" in that spot tire(more) since they are not attached to the sidewall nor the rubber, nor the rim.

i'm just gonna have to leave you (and your earlier insults) to argue with yourself on this one.

Ahh, well, then you've been convinced ? Dude, you threw the insult first.
Let's call it even.
I have no problem, you say they'ell clump, you changed what I said then finally said oh we're talking about a spinning tire on a bike (I'd been talking about it ever since I chimed in about why they claim a static shop machine won't be equivalent).

Look, tell me why it works in a washing machine and not a bike tire.... please ?  ;D

Furthermore, I'd love to see it in a clear tire so we can settle this. Mythbusters does need to do this. Thanks to whomever brought that idea up.

SiliconDoc

  • Guest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #255 on: September 15, 2009, 04:25:46 PM »
A heavier side of the rim and/or tire pulls with MOLECULAR FORCE the cohesive mass of the tire and the rim, whereas the beads do not have the molecular bonding pulling them in the direction of the heavier radial point(more so the rim, less the pliable tire in total mass movement), and therefore tend to "roll away" from the heavier spot ( in actuality they are not pulled toward it, nor pushed toward it by the stretchinging rim(less)or "bulging" in that spot tire(more) since they are not attached to the sidewall nor the rubber, nor the rim.

This is holy #$%* hilarious!!!  :D :D :D

You're kidding, right? Right? Please tell me this comment was made in jest.



No, I'm not kidding. The tire and wheel also experience centipetal force the same way the beads do, the molecular bonds are a factor.
Tape a heavy washer to the outside of your tire, or better yet embed it tighly with tiny teeth on the outside. Then, spin her up - you will see the rubber pulled in that direction, INCREASING the amount of weight off balance further from center, and worsening the effect, the faster you spin that tire.
MASS moves away from center, in a BUNCH, further out, and worsens balance of the tire.
A larger weight, offset from center further, travelling at a faster rate, with more stored force, period.
---
You laughed but the joke is on you.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 04:28:36 PM by SiliconDoc »

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #256 on: September 15, 2009, 04:26:57 PM »
Holy crap!

:)
No.


Offline bistromath

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 730
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #257 on: September 15, 2009, 04:27:52 PM »
Quote
Look, tell me why it works in a washing machine and not a bike tire.... please ?

Are you flipping serious? Did you read a word of what I wrote? I say it does work, but not for the cockamamie reasons you suggest it will.

Quote
I have no problem, you say they'ell clump, you changed what I said then finally said oh we're talking about a spinning tire on a bike (I'd been talking about it ever since I chimed in about why they claim a static shop machine won't be equivalent).

That is not in any way the conversation we had earlier, and I refer you to the thread you apparently haven't read for correction.

And lastly, to settle this godforsaken conversation once and for all, the f'in YOUTUBE VIDEO showing the beads in action:

[youtube=425,350]eq263AYgyYg[/youtube]

No rotation with respect to the tire after static balance achieved. No "molecular force" or "stretchinging rim" BS. Just simple physics of elliptical axes. But, what the Hell would me or my degree know? After all, I was only a physics minor.
'75 CB550F

SiliconDoc

  • Guest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #258 on: September 15, 2009, 04:30:24 PM »
I already explained this earlier.

Boy howdy! :)

Oh, explained what ? Let's have the post number. I'm willing to be convinced.

Offline Inigo Montoya

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,855
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #259 on: September 15, 2009, 04:32:14 PM »
Retro, so many people already think that auto makers do stupid things, this would probably just be lumped into that. I guess a person should just try them. How else will you know? Just mark your rim and tire where the weights are before you remove them. What will it cost, 10 bucks and some time? I am pretty sure we have all spent more than 10 bucks on something just as stupid or even more so. ;)

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #260 on: September 15, 2009, 04:34:40 PM »
I already explained this earlier.

Boy howdy! :)

Oh, explained what ? Let's have the post number. I'm willing to be convinced.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=52136.msg632112#msg632112

Not the whole story, but enough of it to matter.
No.


Offline Inigo Montoya

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,855
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #261 on: September 15, 2009, 04:35:25 PM »
Maybe not super scientific but that video kinda makes it look like they do work at least somewhat.

SiliconDoc

  • Guest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #262 on: September 15, 2009, 04:39:10 PM »
Quote
Look, tell me why it works in a washing machine and not a bike tire.... please ?

Are you flipping serious? Did you read a word of what I wrote? I say it does work, but not for the cockamamie reasons you suggest it will.

Quote
I have no problem, you say they'ell clump, you changed what I said then finally said oh we're talking about a spinning tire on a bike (I'd been talking about it ever since I chimed in about why they claim a static shop machine won't be equivalent).

That is not in any way the conversation we had earlier, and I refer you to the thread you apparently haven't read for correction.

And lastly, to settle this godforsaken conversation once and for all, the f'in YOUTUBE VIDEO showing the beads in action:

[youtube=425,350]eq263AYgyYg[/youtube]

No rotation with respect to the tire after static balance achieved. No "molecular force" or "stretchinging rim" BS. Just simple physics of elliptical axes. But, what the Hell would me or my degree know? After all, I was only a physics minor.

Well, minor is right, you're a minor, and can't factor in anything else. I suggest you reread what I wrote - then take away your predjudicial assumptions as you argued with the other guy.
 Are you going to tell me the beads do not move off inner rubber hitting a bump ? I explained that sufficiently for you, for everyone, but you never commented other than "it doesn't happen".
Well it does happen. It happens forward of front dead center inside the tire, where the beads are travelling DOWNWARD and forward, due to the very physics you claim to have learned, on a bump, as I stated.
You obviously did not learn physics.
 It's easy enough as well to KNOW the beads move off the bottom of the rubber on a decent bump at speed - the tire compresses and moves upward at enourmous speed, ABSOLUTELY reversing the directional force of the beads in an instant, period!
 I already watched the video, now you do it and WHACK the jug ( you hit a bump)- and watch the beads.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 04:45:25 PM by SiliconDoc »

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #263 on: September 15, 2009, 04:39:45 PM »
Its funny, i have been reading about these all morning and every thread i have read is just like this one. There were a few guys that said that the beads induced vibration at high speeds and some said that they went out of balance at certain speeds only to come back to neutral later. I still think that if these were the cure for balancing that race teams in particular would be onto these but i think they also add to unsprung weight so maybe not ideal. 2oz = 56 grams, that's more than you would usually use to balance a tyre on a "normal" balancer.  Also other points have been raised like, what happens under severe acceleration and braking, do they still do what is claimed when other forces are introduced?

Fire away guys ... ;D

Mick

750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,690
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #264 on: September 15, 2009, 04:40:29 PM »
Well, I'll take my MOLECULAR FORCE and stretchinging bad self and show my way to the door (sans dynabeads).

Stand back boys, we are clearly dealing with a mental force of which none of you have seen before or after!!

No use to argue anymore!!

Can't you see his crystal clear understanding of molecular bonding and MOLECULAR FORCE?? And stretchinging??
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline 1974CB750rider

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
  • 1974 CB750K4 46000 miles
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #265 on: September 15, 2009, 04:41:41 PM »
Brew, your post about the everybody spending 10 bucks and trying them. I've been saying that but it seems that all the people on here that haven't tried them want to turn the whole thing into a fu%$#ng science project.
People with closed minds cannot learn new things.

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #266 on: September 15, 2009, 04:43:01 PM »
Brew, your post about the everybody spending 10 bucks and trying them. I've been saying that but it seems that all the people on here that haven't tried them want to turn the whole thing into a fu%$#ng science project.

With good reason, science doesn't lie....

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #267 on: September 15, 2009, 04:43:19 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifical_force


Just saying there are lots of real helpful stuff out there....




Offline Inigo Montoya

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,855
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #268 on: September 15, 2009, 04:44:57 PM »
science but it isnt always right.

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #269 on: September 15, 2009, 04:46:24 PM »
Seriously, I am now officially out of my league.
Between the engineer, the physics guy (ok, physics minor) and revolutionary physics renaissance man, I am severely outlcassed.
I'll just watch (for now.)
No.


Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #270 on: September 15, 2009, 04:46:57 PM »
science but it isnt always right.

The science used is right, its people that get it wrong.... ;)

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline bistromath

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 730
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #271 on: September 15, 2009, 04:49:31 PM »
Some people just like to argue.  ::)
'75 CB550F

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #272 on: September 15, 2009, 04:50:02 PM »
Some people just like to argue.  ::)

No we don't...
No.


Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #273 on: September 15, 2009, 04:53:32 PM »
I would rather look on this as a discussion, like i have just said, this debate is going on everywhere on the net, go have a read. There are still lots of unanswered questions, so the debate goes on. If you are getting upset then thats your problem....
Quote
Some people just like to argue.  Roll Eyes
An argument is a 2 way street.

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: Ever heard of dynabeads?
« Reply #274 on: September 15, 2009, 04:55:32 PM »

An argument is a 2 way street.

Mick
No it isn't...
No.