Author Topic: Need help identifing this bike  (Read 4683 times)

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Offline JS550

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2009, 08:42:51 AM »
Great bike! I got $5 says you put plugs & fresh gas in & it fires up!
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2009, 09:28:18 AM »
Definately 450 post the full frame number and i will look it up in my ID book for you
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Offline Popwood

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2009, 10:00:30 AM »
Black Bombers are rare and collectible and fetch a good price when in good condition. I think this is a later model, like a 67 or so. The first models had squared up fenders. As I recall, this bike has some especially sophisticated mechanics for its day and was the bike that sent a message to the motorcycle world of the day-- BSA, Triumph, Norton, that a Japanese invasion was about to take place.
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Offline tygrant

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2009, 10:06:50 AM »
I am so jealous, i want an old 450 so bad
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Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2009, 10:32:18 AM »
Thanks for the help guys.  Off the top of my head the vin number was cb450 1108811 Something like that.  I'll verify tonight.  Wondering if its a 4 speed or 5.  I'm going to see if she'll fire up this weekend.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2009, 11:00:19 AM »
It will be a 4 speeder.
If you want an idea what it will be worth when it's restored and what it might cost to restore it, contact Gordon (Ilbikes).
He recentley completed one and you would be hard pressed to find a better resto.

Sam. ;)
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Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2009, 11:05:41 AM »
I replied on his older thread last night.  The pictures on his thread no longer appear.  Hopefully he will contact me when he reads the post.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2009, 11:39:25 AM »
I replied on his older thread last night.  The pictures on his thread no longer appear.  Hopefully he will contact me when he reads the post.

I've sent him a PM to look in here.

Sam. ;)
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Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2009, 11:46:46 AM »
Thanks Sam

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2009, 11:52:47 AM »
Gordon is one hell of a restorer, and not just restricted to one make in particular.

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2009, 01:55:10 PM »
Guys, I don't know if my helmet is big enough for my head after Sam's post.

I am pretty sure you have a 1966 model. I will assum that your frame/engine number is going to be a 101xxxx number. They started with 1000046 and up to the 102xxxx. What is surprising is that you won't find any production numbers for each year and a 1965 may be titled as a 1967 because they were done in the year sold back then. All are K0's from 1965 through the 1967 model year. The K1 was a 1968 model.

What you have is a 4 speed. You can tell by the number of screws holding the sprocket cover on - 4 screws = 4 speeds and 5 screws = 5 speed (1968 K1 and up). Do not be affraid to restore this bike. It has a lot of parts and I will absolutely confirm that doing one in 2,3, 5 years down the road will be near impossible. I sourced from 13 countries and had a huge network of friends and businesses helping and it took me almost 1 year. There are actually 6 parts on the bike that are not available from anyone/anywhere. Those are the seat hinges and the two front fork trims. I had to commission a tool maker to make a stamp press and do 100 of the hinges, then 30 pairs of the fork trims. I sold all but 2 sets, re-couped all my money within 2 weeks! The Black Bomber fans are fantastic folks.

This is and will likely be the most valuable and most rewarding bike you will get to own. Out of 30+ restorations, it is certainly the most memorable, the most difficult (parts wise) and in my opinion will only get better with age. It won't be cheap. Nice with good parts = $4,000. Very nice with near perfect parts = $10,000, 90% or more NOS and absolutely busting the budget wide-open - $20,000 and 300+ hours of labor and fun.

What ever you decide, don't cut it up, don't cafe it - buy a later model and do that. These belong in the history books and in places for people to enjoy for years to come. That shifter on the bike is the original, hollow factory part. That is like impossible to find and could cost you $200-300 for another one like it. Be carefuly buying new parts - OEM parts from Honda will work, but you may be throwing a valuable and rare part away. I could talk for hours on what makes a Bomber different and unique. You'll be the same way once you've finished it. Take your time and enjoy that cylinder head, those front forks with some wild progressive dual springs inside. The engineering on this one has so many neat features that were never again used. - The cylinder head is aluminum, but they cast in iron valve seats and hemisperical chambers. The valves are controlled by torsion bars - not springs to give airflow path the shortest distand possible. When you see one up close - you're gonna smile and wil ask yourself "can I put this back together?". I have told many folks that the Black Bomber has more parts in the cylinderhead than most other bikes have in their entire engine.

Gordon








« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 01:58:49 PM by Ilbikes »
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Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2009, 02:06:29 PM »
Thanks for the reply Gordon.  Your bike is amazing.  I plan to take my time on this one.  I've already done the cafe bike so that's out of my system. 

Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2009, 02:14:07 PM »
Top view

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2009, 03:56:38 PM »
I still have a full set of the hinges, those fork rings, and several bins full of NOS parts. When I found 2 or more of an original part, I'd buy them. I thought early on that I might do two of them - 1 to ride 1 to preserve. I have since decided not to do the 2nd one and to preserve the first. I have yet to put gas in it since completed 2 years ago and likely won't for a while. I'm working on a 1974 GT750 that is getting real close to completion, so the research and restoration is the fun for me.

Anyway, if you can show you've got the determination to do it right, the NOS parts you can't/won't find anywhere can go to a good home for what I have in them. I don't intend to profit on them, but I refuse to eBay them. You keep us posted and let me know if you need help with resources or simply get stuck for parts. I've made some great friends during this journey. Regards, Gordon
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Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2009, 04:01:57 PM »
Thanks Gordon.  Tell you what, I'll keep you posted on the build and if you think the bike is going in the right direction and it's worthy of the parts then I'll let you sell them to me :)

I moving in to a bigger house next month so there will be a lot more room to work on her.
 

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2009, 04:07:38 PM »
Oh, be careful with thiose pipes. Those are the original KO's and if they can be taken apart and rebuilt  -you need to hang on to them. You will not find another set, certainly not NOS. I waited for about 8 months and watched eBay every night. Finally a used, ok set came on eBay. I bid what I thought was a rediculelous $1,350 using esnipe thinking I would surely have them - I lost them in the last 6 seconds. How much those would have brought had I known it? I'd have given $2,500 easy and kick myself for not putting more into my snipe limit.

The set I have are in fact NOS, but as the restorer will notice - those are K1 pipes on mine and cost me $2,000 plus shipping.

Enjoy that bike. I will again say most have never seen one and it gets people's interest when they come over. Gordon
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Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2009, 06:33:49 PM »
Wow that much for pipes?  Well, I just looked over the bike.  One of the pipes has rotted through at the end.  The other looks ok.  Maybe able to rebuild them.  I was able to find numbers on the neck and the engine

Frame is cb450 101881

Engine is cb450E 1016622

I checked out the seat hinges.  The are there but on of the tip snapped off of one of them.  MAy be able to weld a piece on and refinish it. 

Tire hold air  :D

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2009, 07:07:25 PM »
Wow that much for pipes? 

That's why I said to have a word with Gordon, there's allways something that's out of this world expensive on any bike.

Sam. ;)
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Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2009, 07:24:38 PM »
The seat hinges fail at the rubber/metal bond. The small tube that goes over the frame pins is vulcanized to the hinge. That rubber bond just comes loose on 90% of the ones I've seen. You don't like thinking about riding one that has nothing holding the seat to the bike :)

Here is one set of the 25 sets (100 stampings) I had commissioned specifically for the Black Bomber all because I needed 1 set. Those cost me $2,300 - but as said, I re-couped my expenses in less than 2 weeks when folks saw them.

The 2nd photo is the other "NLA" parts - the front fork trim rings. I had 30 pairs of these CNC's in stainless, polished, then electropolished at a cost of approx $1,100 all because I needed 1 pair, but again I had the Bomber community all over me for the extras. I did not lose a dime on those two items and made some very good friends in the process. The stockers are on the right - pits and all, the reproductions in stainless to the left.

That shifter you'll notice is round. It is actually hollow and will break, not bend the first time the bike is ever dropped. Honda saw that as a design flaw since a small parking lot spill or tip-over would leave the bike "stranded". Their fix? They started making the shifters with flat stock. That flat, solid-bar looking shifter seen on a lot of the newer bikes could be straightened and re-used no matter how many times the bike fell. You keep and take good care of that round, under-curved Bomber shift lever. You're not likely to see another one in your condition. I'd take it tomorrow and gladly give you a hundred plus shipping - they are that hard to find, especially in the shape yours is.

Here is one of the very few still out there -

Gordon





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Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2009, 07:30:28 PM »
How much were you selling the hinges for when you were selling them?

Offline 53kemper

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2009, 07:45:53 PM »
Some pics of the shifter. looks like it may have been welded not sure if that is stock.

Any one know where I can download a PDF manual for this bike?

Offline Sparked

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2009, 09:32:38 PM »
What a beautiful bike.  I'm defiantly interested in seeing how this one turns out.  Nice find too.
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Offline ChevelleSSLS6

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2009, 10:05:26 PM »




That's more of a true Hemi design, much better than the sorta-Hemi in modern mopars...

funniest thing is- its in a Honda. :o ;D
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2009, 10:57:19 PM »
Youve missed a number out of the frame number you quoted and I have a copy of the 1974 Genuine Honda manual but it only covers the 5 speed, strangley it says all the 450 were 5 speed but i bow to Gordons better knowledge.

I could scan the book to CD but it will take some time that i dont have at the moment, if you want it PM me
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: Need help identifing this bike
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2009, 04:35:56 AM »
I have a photo copy of the original factory manual. I have not ever seen one on-line. The last time I had one copied at Staples was about 2 years ago and it was about $25 and then shipping. It is a very thick and detailed. I also have a great parts fiche that shows the original and superceded parts and what model serial numbers they were fitted to, it is well over 100 pages and came off of a CD that I no longer have.

If you are not able to find it anywhere else, then I could drop mine by Staples for a copy to be made. That expense and shipping would be yours.

Regards,
Gordon
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