Topic: Was anyone else deeply offended by the "You Lie!" outburst?

[MickeyX]

In our area, our hospitals hover from 6-10% on charity care. That's just the ones here in PDX. Try running a business and keep your doors open with that many people not paying their bills. Medicaid and Medicare pay the lowest of all insurances so we take a big hit there too.

[MCRider]

But Bob, Saying "That's not true" might sound better, but it doesn't seem accurate. If an illegal immigrant comes into an ER and is treated right now, the hospital makes every effort to collect payment from them. If not they eat the loss. So say hypothetically we have this public option, the same illegal immigrant still has no insurance, goes to the ER. The hospital tries to recover loss from patient. Same outcome. How is the president incorrect in saying illegals will not be covered?

That's right Bob, you beat me to it. Certain hard costs of the illegals treatment are not "eaten". They are "cost shifted" to someone who can pay. Otherwise the hospital would have to close.

That's why costs for those of us who are covered rise faster than anticipated, because there is no wayto know in advance how many uncovered people are going to draw on the system, and have their costs layered onto ours.

Illegals are effectively "covered" now and will be under the new plan as well. Until those kinds of costs are stopped, there will be no end to this.

[Bob Wessner]

It's not unlike the Uninsured Motorists Fund here in Michigan. Sure, by law, everyone must have insurance, but guess what, some don't bother. The rest of us pay the difference through our insurance rates.

[mystic_1]

This is a problematic area since most people wouldn't feel right about turning away someone in need of life-saving treatment.

Ethics and economics are often incompatible.

mystic_1

[cleveland]

Ethics are a matter of perception. 

[SiliconDoc]

I listened to President Obama's speech in the car.  Obama was talking about what wouldn't be in the healthcare reform bill and mentioned that illegal aliens would not be allowed any coverage.  Period.  The grumbling died down and there it was, hanging in the middle of the silence...

"YOU LIE!"

My jaw dropped open when I heard that.  Republican Representative Wilson of South Carolina heckling the President of the United States during a nationally broadcast joint session of Congress?

Jesus Christ.  What has happened to this country?

Uhh, no I wasn't offended. I'm offended it hasn't happened more often and for about 20 years into the past. The rule is lies are to be accepted, and so I thought it was great. Can't wait till they all start calling eachother on their lies, like we little people do all the time.

 Gee, that might actually straighten things out, and provide real news entertainment and a better nation and outcome.

I'm all for it, keep it up all those who care about the truth.

[johnyvilla]

Bob, your right. Uninsured people who receive care increase the price of heath care. This is not coverage though, meaning Obama was not incorrect in saying illegal immigrants will not be covered. Nothing would change for illegals.

[DammitDan]

can i be retroactively "deeply offended"?    must be because he's white.

I didn't hear a single distinctive "BOO" from the audience there, I heard more grumbling.  Grumbling is the opposite of applause.  There has always been indistinct grumbling from the opposition during speeches, just as there has always been applause from the party in power.  Booing is the opposite of cheering.  I hear a hell of a lot more cheering from the audience than I do booing.

Regardless, this is a matter of respect for the position.  The Republican party is within its rights hold absolutely NO respect for the man who holds the Office, but they MUST respect the Office itself.  Calling out a distinctive personal insult to the President during a speech is what I would call disrespecting the Office.

[DammitDan]

Bob, your right. Uninsured people who receive care increase the price of heath care. This is not coverage though, meaning Obama was not incorrect in saying illegal immigrants will not be covered. Nothing would change for illegals.

Sheesh, talk about some SPIN!

This is absolutely ridiculous.  By not mentioning the fact that Obama would NOT force hospitals to deny care to illegal aliens, he effectively said they would be covered under his plan.  That's ridiculous.  

You're saying that illegals should be kicked out of the hospitals to bleed to death in the street.  Who do you think is going to pay to pick up their corpses and dump them in a landfill?  Duh, THE TAXPAYER!  /sarcasm

It's amazing to me how callous some people can be...

[mrblasty]

Look folks Laws get changed, business practices that were once acceptable and then deemed wrong have been changed.  The Insurance industry has had a chance to change the way people are insured for several decades and nothing was done so it's being changed for them.  TOO BAD! NOW GET OVER IT! 

[333]

The whole point of the speech was to clear things up, Bob.  Every Republican has taken the idea that because we, as a people, will treat anyone who comes into an ER that needs their life saved, and turn it into "Obama wants to give health care to illegals".  RNC head Michael Steele said last night that he see's that the bill that doesn't necessarily say that illegals aren't covered, and how it can be misconstrued into covering illegals.  I've read it, and I don't see how.  Although, the bill isn't finished yet, so I don't see how anyone can see anything concrete yet.

This is also how "end of life counseling" (A republican idea from 4 or 5 years ago, BTW) has turned into death camps.

[johnyvilla]

Yea this end of life thing is retarded. I have worked in health care for 15 years and have heard thousands of doctors and nurses talk advanced directives to patients, so we know what their wishes are if things go south, and the patient cannot communicate. Right wing pundits have turned advanced directives into something negative which is nuts. Do they want us to guess if they want CPR or a ventilator if they cannot breath for themselves?

[NickC]

Trust in the political loopholes. The bill will say not to allow illegal immigrants to enroll, but it will not have any form of positive verification to ensure this. The RNC has offered many amendments to the bill, all but to be rejected by the DNC. HUNDREDS of amendments offered to meet a bi-partisan agreement. ALL rejected.
The DNC seeks to keep their future voting population healthy....

[DammitDan]

The RNC has offered many amendments to the bill, all but to be rejected by the DNC. HUNDREDS of amendments offered to meet a bi-partisan agreement. ALL rejected.

Hundreds?

So far I've counted 31.

And it looks to me like there were many cases of attempted re-wording for content which was already covered (no abortions covered, no illegal aliens insured, etc.) and there were even cases of bureaucrats deciding what could and could not be offered under the healthcare plan.  Hmm, bureaucratic denial of service for "unnecessary" procedures (vague wording, don't you think)?  I thought that was one of the things the Republicans were trying to prevent (death panels, anyone?), when here they are suggesting it in an amendment.

And many of the Amendments never even made it out of committee, and the ones that did followed a strict party-line vote.  Hmm, how bipartisan do you think these amendments could have possibly been if everyone stuck to their own sides?

[BVCB650]

I loved it. He called it like he saw it. Others wished they had the stones.

[johnyvilla]

Sorry Dan, I missed your reply:

"You're saying that illegals should be kicked out of the hospitals to bleed to death in the street.  Who do you think is going to pay to pick up their corpses and dump them in a landfill?  Duh, THE TAXPAYER!  /sarcasm"

I never said illegal immigrants should be denied care. I just think their heath care should not be paid for by tax paying US citizens. I realize uninsured Illegal immigrants\citizens that refuse to pay medical bills, can raise the price of health care for everyone, but I still have not gotten a decent answer to my question.

I have insurance, and here is how it works: I see my doctor, who bills my insurance. My insurance provider reimburses the procedure, and I might pay a premium. My grandma sees her doctor. Her doctor charges Medicaid, which in turn pays for for visit; which of course we all are paying through taxes.

those are two instances of ins coverage.

Ok, so an illegal immigrant with no ins. is treated at a local hospital. Since he has NO INSURANCE, they send him a bill. If he doesn't choose to pay the bill, they send it to a collection agency. If the collection agency has no luck, and the patient never pays, this does not mean he was ever covered by insurance. When a hospital cannot recover owed money from patients, they have a loss in profits, which might reflect in higher healthcare costs, but the government does not reimburse them for these losses.

So how can you say, that just because an uninsured person is treated, they are covered by government insurance?

[mrblasty]

Let me tell you about the bill I recieved for 6 hours in the E.R and one doctors apointment. I'm not insured 
ER visit $2500.00
Doctor fee $500.00
EKG $350.00
Doctor visit $160.00 for 20mins.
Ordered test $4700.00
I couldn't afford the test so I didn't have it done. 
$8210.00 For less than an hour of the doctors time and two test

[bucky katt]

at last glance i think i owe around 150k or so from when i broke my neck

[demon78]

Bucky your story seems to cry out for change in the health system.
Bill the demon.

[bucky katt]

LOL, lucky for me i havent really worked in 2 1/2 years. the hospital and docs will likely never get even close to totally paid off. i would love to be able to but, wtf are you gonna do?

[NickC]

Let me tell you about the bill I recieved for 6 hours in the E.R and one doctors apointment. I'm not insured 
ER visit $2500.00
Doctor fee $500.00
EKG $350.00
Doctor visit $160.00 for 20mins.
Ordered test $4700.00
I couldn't afford the test so I didn't have it done. 
$8210.00 For less than an hour of the doctors time and two test

What about the illegal immigrants that have that same situation, but get off scotch free? We already pay for them. Fix our health care? Get rid of the illegals....

[Inigo Montoya]

So how do your propose getting rid of illegals? Checkpoints on every corner saying "show me your papers"?

[edbikerii]

Why don't you have insurance?

Let me tell you about the bill I recieved for 6 hours in the E.R and one doctors apointment. I'm not insured 
ER visit $2500.00
Doctor fee $500.00
EKG $350.00
Doctor visit $160.00 for 20mins.
Ordered test $4700.00
I couldn't afford the test so I didn't have it done. 
$8210.00 For less than an hour of the doctors time and two test

[NickC]

So how do your propose getting rid of illegals? Checkpoints on every corner saying "show me your papers"?

I don't have a proposition to get rid of the illegals. Border security should be stepped up to prevent any more from coming over, thats for sure. I'm simply stating that it's a huge problem that needs to be addressed

[mlinder]

The problem isn't being addressed from it's root causes.
These are all bandaids that work on the effect, not the cause.
Do you know why medical costs and medical insurance are so high?
A lot of it has to do with the insanely high premiums that hospitals and doctors have to pay for malpractice insurance.
The average premium for a single doctor is in the range of $100,000.00 per year.
Why is that? Well, because our legal system promotes inane and insane lawsuits against everyone. Lawyers love to sue doctors. When we can sue doctors and their insurance companies and the lawyers can make as much as 50 cents on the dollar, if not more, on a lawsuit, you bet they want to sue for everything, all the time.
If we could reduce the premiums that have to be paid for insurance be reducing the crapload of lawsuits and the crapload of money made by lawyers FROM these lawsuits, we could reduce the cost of medical care, which would reduce the cost of personal health insurance, makign it much more affordable for EVERYONE.
We wouldn't NEED #$%*ing socialized healthcare if medical insurance cost about half what it costs now. Even I could afford it, out of my own pocket.
All said and done, kill the #$%*ing parasites that have made health insurance what it is today. It's not the insurance companies, it's not the doctors. It's the #$%*ing lawyers and legal system, and the politicians who give them the green light to sue at the drop of a hat.

Again, think about that. $100,000 dolalrs a year in just insurance premiums for SINGLE DOCTOR. Add that to the overhead of running an OFFICE. No wonder this #$%* is so expensive. No wonder they don't make housecalls anymore. They can't #$%*ing afford it. You think a doctor bringing in a quarter million a year is making good money. My bet is 50-75% of that is freakin overhead due to these numbers. All the  while being scared #$%*less of being sued by some jackass.