Topic: Picked up a new gat

[mrblasty]

I picked up a new SIG P220 yesterday, what a brute!  I've been eyeballing this pistol for ten years now and finally bit the bullet so to speak.  I found on for sale locally with night sights that was priced as well as could be expected.  I like the way it shoots but will need to get familiar with the ballistics of the .45 my .40 cal had a flatter trajectory and that's what I have been shooting for the last 18 years. 
I realize some of the folks on the board aren't into handguns and that I can respect, for those of us that are here is a picture of me and my new lady.

[bucky katt]

the .45 acp is my first choice for personal protection. a big heavy slow (around 950fps i think) they dont have the penetration power of say.........a 9mm but they have the all important stopping/knockdown power. i love my Taurus PT145 i got early last year for me new CC gun. i like the grips, are they stock grips or did you add them on?

[TwoTired]

The SIG P220 is one of my favorites.  Has the same grip angle as the 1911s which, for me makes them better to point/shoot.
From this stand point they are better than the Glocks, IMO.  The sigs are as reliable (if not moreso) then the glocks, and more accurate than most stock 1911s (which I love to smith on).  It takes a lot of smithing to make the 1911 as reliable AND accurate as the SIG.

So, my only disappointment with the SIG is that it needs no smithing to make improvements.  Its a fine/accurate/reliable pistol right out of the box, making it an excellent choice for self defense, punching paper, or plinking (if you can afford it).  

I you want a flatter trajectory, try 185 Grain projectiles rather than 230.

[BobbyR]

Very nice piece indeed. the SIGs have always top shelf. 45 ACP is very good for social interaction. Reloading can drive down the cost of target practice.

[bucky katt]

how many rounds does it carry? my little taurus is 10+1.

[mrblasty]

Yo bucky, the grips are a set of Hogue grips, capacity is at 8+1.  I'm looking for a box of 185 gr and I spied a 165gr on the net that has my attention.  I'm curious if it's cool to shot +p ammo through this gun, my last pistola warned against using it.

[mrblasty]

The SIG P220 is one of my favorites.  Has the same grip angle as the 1911s which, for me makes them better to point/shoot.
From this stand point they are better than the Glocks, IMO.  The sigs are as reliable (if not moreso) then the glocks, and more accurate than most stock 1911s (which I love to smith on).  It takes a lot of smithing to make the 1911 as reliable AND accurate as the SIG.

So, my only disappointment with the SIG is that it needs no smithing to make improvements.  Its a fine/accurate/reliable pistol right out of the box, making it an excellent choice for self defense, punching paper, or plinking (if you can afford it).  

I you want a flatter trajectory, try 185 Grain projectiles rather than 230.

I was a little bummed at the range yesterday.  The first ten rounds through the gun I had my target at 30 feet, my rounds were hitting 6 inches below where I was pointing.  With the target at 15 feet I was still hitting 1 inch below point, that I can live with.  I would like an adjustable rear night sight. 

[TwoTired]

Sounds like the night sights weren't set correctly for the gun, with the front being too tall (or rear too short).  Usually, aftermarket sights are made so they can be fit/tailored to the gun, with the front too tall.  The gunsmith is supposed to file it down so the gun shoots point of aim at X distance.  Night sights are a little trickier, depending on the type, as they often have an outline shape and glow portion to align with the rear, so you have to be more attentive to adjustments.
Were the night sights put on by factory, or a wanna be gunsmith?

I once shot with a fellow who complained of his pistol shooting low.  It was his first .45.  He made the jump from .22 to .45 as his next gun.  I tried his pistol and put everything grouped about the  X ring.
I let him shoot one of my 357 revolvers and only put 3 rounds in the cylinder for him at random.  I watched as he squeezed off rounds, and the problems was him.  He was doing an anticipatory flinch upon trigger release, whether a round went off or not.  You could see the barrel drop when the hammer dropped on an empty round.  He was very consistent, as his three shot group could be covered with a silver dollar.  But, they were all about 3-4 inches low.

I haven't shot my SIGs for a few years.  I actually have two. They come with a 10 Meter test fire target from the factory.  One of mine shot about 1/2 low @ 10 meters and the other was about 3/4 inch low at the same range.  Grouping on one was about 1 inch and the other 2 inches.  I remember shooting one ragged hole indoors at 25 yards a little over 2 inches in diameter, with eight shots.  I was impressed with that being a totally stock gun. I couldn't do that with a 1911 that wasn't accurized first.  Back then, I could maintain focus on target, front, and rear sights simultaneously.  Now I can only focus on the front sight.  Aging is cruel.

For semi-automatics, the springs for the slide and firing pin must usually be changed for +P loadings.  I also recommend a shock buffer to keep from battering the frame.  Such modified guns then may have cycling issues with standard ammo.
The owners manual for the SIG 220 state the use of ammunition meeting SAAMI specifications.  I think +P ammo exceeds that.  But, I am not certain.

I don't know why you need +P ammo, though.  You shooting through car doors or several interior walls?
Maybe what you really want is .454?  That puts a neat hole in 1/4" plate steel.  Not exactly a concealed carry gun, though.

[mrblasty]

Sounds like the night sights weren't set correctly for the gun, with the front being too tall (or rear too short).  Usually, aftermarket sights are made so they can be fit/tailored to the gun, with the front too tall.  The gunsmith is supposed to file it down so the gun shoots point of aim at X distance.  Night sights are a little trickier, depending on the type, as they often have an outline shape and glow portion to align with the rear, so you have to be more attentive to adjustments.
Were the night sights put on by factory, or a wanna be gunsmith?

I once shot with a fellow who complained of his pistol shooting low.  It was his first .45.  He made the jump from .22 to .45 as his next gun.  I tried his pistol and put everything grouped about the  X ring.
I let him shoot one of my 357 revolvers and only put 3 rounds in the cylinder for him at random.  I watched as he squeezed off rounds, and the problems was him.  He was doing an anticipatory flinch upon trigger release, whether a round went off or not.  You could see the barrel drop when the hammer dropped on an empty round.  He was very consistent, as his three shot group could be covered with a silver dollar.  But, they were all about 3-4 inches low.

I haven't shot my SIGs for a few years.  I actually have two. They come with a 10 Meter test fire target from the factory.  One of mine shot about 1/2 low @ 10 meters and the other was about 3/4 inch low at the same range.  Grouping on one was about 1 inch and the other 2 inches.  I remember shooting one ragged hole indoors at 25 yards a little over 2 inches in diameter, with eight shots.  I was impressed with that being a totally stock gun. I couldn't do that with a 1911 that wasn't accurized first.  Back then, I could maintain focus on target, front, and rear sights simultaneously.  Now I can only focus on the front sight.  Aging is cruel.

For semi-automatics, the springs for the slide and firing pin must usually be changed for +P loadings.  I also recommend a shock buffer to keep from battering the frame.  Such modified guns then may have cycling issues with standard ammo.
The owners manual for the SIG 220 state the use of ammunition meeting SAAMI specifications.  I think +P ammo exceeds that.  But, I am not certain.

I don't know why you need +P ammo, though.  You shooting through car doors or several interior walls?
Maybe what you really want is .454?  That puts a neat hole in 1/4" plate steel.  Not exactly a concealed carry gun, though.

Thanks for the input, I don't know anyone with one of these guns so it's good to hear other peoples experiences.  The sights are the factory night sight, I read somewhere that the sights are numbered for height, so if I can't train out the low hits I may look into re-sighting the gun.
I was looking at the ballistics of the the 165 gr +P loads and they were comparable to what I am accustomed to through my old Glock 22 and my EAA Witness.  My little CZ RAMI 2075 liked the 180 gr heavy stuff.  I'm hoping that this pistol will help me stop pining for the guns that are gone.

[Rocking-M]

the son has one and it quite a nice 45, I have a baby eagle which I'm happy with.

Spent yesterday afternoon depriming and sizing well over 1000 pieces of 45 brass and
made a dent in some 44 brass.

[strynboen]

nice guns,,in europa this thred vont have eksist,,,ve dont need veapens ,,only for hunting and sport

[BobbyR]

Your biggest cornern is that the pistol is capable of shooting an acceptable group. You can set up a rest on sandbags or some ranges have Ransom style fixtures. If the pistol can shoot a group, as TT said the sights can be adjusted to give you a decent sight picture. If the pistol cannot group it's shots, it has a problem.

[mrblasty]

Your biggest cornern is that the pistol is capable of shooting an acceptable group. You can set up a rest on sandbags or some ranges have Ransom style fixtures. If the pistol can shoot a group, as TT said the sights can be adjusted to give you a decent sight picture. If the pistol cannot group it's shots, it has a problem.

The groups are nice and tight, a taller rear sight may be in order.   I'll play around with compensation next time I'm on the range. 

[BobbyR]

Your biggest cornern is that the pistol is capable of shooting an acceptable group. You can set up a rest on sandbags or some ranges have Ransom style fixtures. If the pistol can shoot a group, as TT said the sights can be adjusted to give you a decent sight picture. If the pistol cannot group it's shots, it has a problem.

The groups are nice and tight, a taller rear sight may be in order.   I'll play around with compensation next time I'm on the range. 

Excellant, now you just deal with the sight, the pistol seems sound.

[TwoTired]

The groups are nice and tight, a taller rear sight may be in order.   I'll play around with compensation next time I'm on the range. 

If your groups are shooting low, you need a >shorter< front sight.

If you're transitioning from a Glock, you may be used to a different grip angle relative to the barrel.  The Glock has a steeper grip angle.  If you trained so as that grip angle feels correct for on-target hits, using the same angle for the SIG will place all shots low.  The reverse is true when transitioning from SIG/1911, to the Glock, in which shots tend to go high of target.
This usually only applies to point shooting or rapid fire situations.  If you are truly lining up sights correctly and placing shots low, then it is a sight adjust problem.

Also, you may wish to try different grips.  The type you have now, increases the grip diameter.  This is fine for large hands.  But, for anyone with less than large hands you can't keep the pistol centerline in the center of the hand's web and still properly reach the trigger.  A handgun needs to fit the hand using it, if it is to become an extension of that appendage.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Gotta get used to the big push (.45) as opposed to the nice pop-pop (.40).

I am a bit of a sadist with my .357 magnum shorty, I hate my hand and want to abuse it.

[mrblasty]

The groups are nice and tight, a taller rear sight may be in order.   I'll play around with compensation next time I'm on the range. 

If your groups are shooting low, you need a >shorter< front sight.

If you're transitioning from a Glock, you may be used to a different grip angle relative to the barrel.  The Glock has a steeper grip angle.  If you trained so as that grip angle feels correct for on-target hits, using the same angle for the SIG will place all shots low.  The reverse is true when transitioning from SIG/1911, to the Glock, in which shots tend to go high of target.
This usually only applies to point shooting or rapid fire situations.  If you are truly lining up sights correctly and placing shots low, then it is a sight adjust problem.

Also, you may wish to try different grips.  The type you have now, increases the grip diameter.  This is fine for large hands.  But, for anyone with less than large hands you can't keep the pistol centerline in the center of the hand's web and still properly reach the trigger.  A handgun needs to fit the hand using it, if it is to become an extension of that appendage.

I haven't tried point shooting with this pistol yet, I've only done slow controlled sight shooting.  I decided on this gun because it was a natural pointer for me.  I haven't owned  a Glock in a long time and most of my shooting was done with a CZ or CZ clone, both of which have a very low slide profile due to the the slide riding inside the frame verses over it. 
  I don't think i have the option of a shorter front sight because of the night sight issue, maybe a taller rear will be in order if I can't adjust to the pistol.
 

[sniper1]

If the Sig came from the factory with the sights installed, it is probably not the sights. If you bought it second hand, someone probably installed the wrong sights or were correcting their own errors with different sights. There are different sizes for the front sights which are numbered accordingly, I wouldn't go correcting shooter error with a mechanical fix. I am not a big fan of adjustable sights unless you plan on competing in competition bullseye, in that case you would want something other than that Sig.

When sighting in, thumbcock to single action, take the free moving slack out of the trigger (about an 1/8" to 1/4" of that slop) right to the point where you notice the trigger is about to break. Then confirm the sight picture, and slow steady increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Focus on the sight picture as you increase pressure. Practice this a few times on a 3" dot at 7 yds. Then do the same thing double action only, decock between shots. Do this until you can do 5 in a row both double and single action. Then you will be ready to progress.

 Stick with the fundamentals:
Grip
Body Position
Sight Alignment
Sight Picture
Trigger Control
Breathing
Followthrough

Though what you will find is that with a handgun all you need is the following:

Steady gun - good strong grip
Good sight reference - Sight picture good enough to make the shot
Good Trigger control - again good enough to make the shot

......Yes I do teach this #$%* for a living.

[TwoTired]

The picture originally posted shows a different model SIG than mine, (probably newer).  I suspect his may be a DAO pistol  (Or his picture is reversed.)  Both my SIG 220s have a de-cock lever and a slide release lever on the left side above the grip.
One has the mag release at the bottom of the mag well, and the other has a button on the side near the trigger guard.
I believe some police departments don't allow any single action mode for their pistols and this looks like a model made for those departments.

[pdxPope]

DAO w/ an external hammer? What would be the point?


Blasty-  I've shot a lot of handguns in my time, and imho the CZ75 platform is hard to improve on. Especially if that's ehat you are used to. Sigs seem really 'tall' to me, you may just need more trigger time to get used to how it shoots and presents it's sight picture.

Of course you could always just cheat and hang a laser off that front rail....


-JP

[mrblasty]

The picture originally posted shows a different model SIG than mine, (probably newer).  I suspect his may be a DAO pistol  (Or his picture is reversed.)  Both my SIG 220s have a de-cock lever and a slide release lever on the left side above the grip.
One has the mag release at the bottom of the mag well, and the other has a button on the side near the trigger guard.
I believe some police departments don't allow any single action mode for their pistols and this looks like a model made for those departments.

Mine has the de-cocker and was purchased new with the sights installed at the factory. I picked up some more ammo today, I'm just antsy to get back out and shoot it.

[BobbyR]

I have mostly been a wheelgun man, since I got out of the Army. When I was in I was issued a .45 that was well past it's prime and was fairly inaccurate since it was practically a smoothbore by then.

While going through the Police Academy we used .38 six shooters and everything was double action double tap shooting. My off duty was a Colt Detective Special. I was never comfortable carrying a single action in condition three.

I bought a Walther PPKS in stainless since it was flatter, double action and I built my own holsters which made it concealable. I was offered an amazing deal on a 9mm Glock 19 while living in Fla for a short time. It was a good fit for me since like a revolver there were no safeties and you just draw and fire like a revolver. It is compact, shoots as well as I can shoot, not MOA by any means, but good enough for what I would need it for.

Once you get the sights sorted out on the SIG, I think you will be very happy with it. .45 ACP is one of those calibers that  seems to work just right.

   

[bucky katt]

Yo bucky, the grips are a set of Hogue grips, capacity is at 8+1.  I'm looking for a box of 185 gr and I spied a 165gr on the net that has my attention.  I'm curious if it's cool to shot +p ammo through this gun, my last pistola warned against using it.

i know that my polymer framed taurus pt145 is ok for +p ammo and though it IS techincally ok to shoot 235's i wouldnt advise doing it all day long. i keep hydra-shok 185's in it for personal defense. i use reloaded  185 swcs from atlanta ammo for target practice. i've been thinking about getting an extended/threaded barrel to fit a suppressor just for #$%*s and giggles

[mrblasty]

I picked up a couple of boxes of Winchester Silver Tips.  185 gr at 1000 fps should be a little bit closer to what I'm accustomed to.  Not sure when I'll be back at the range.  Hopefully this weekend.

[wardenerd]

Every thirty years some country comes pouring over your border a 45 or two might discourage them.