Author Topic: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?  (Read 6690 times)

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Offline MaaseyRacer

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Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« on: June 05, 2010, 03:52:19 pm »
What are some Alternatives to Carillo rods?  I have seen Robinson Engineering in the UK, can do 400F rods, but the exchange on the dollar is not worth it right now.
My primary objection to Carillo is price.  I have started making the rounds around the various car rod manufacturers to see if they offer 400F rods, but it seems that they are all a custom order deal. 
1961 CB72
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1962 CB77
1965 CB160
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Offline Big Jay

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2010, 10:58:49 pm »
Carrillos for the 400 are custom at $1295 a set.

Offline scottly

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2010, 11:02:50 pm »
Do you offer a lower cost 400 rod, Big Jay?
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2010, 11:12:52 pm »
I really have a hard time seeing a price for 4 little rods being over 1200.
If I could find rods from a cbr600 or something, yeah.

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2010, 04:25:24 am »
After having bought a set for my CB750/836 and comparing them to stock - I was impressed and started appreciating why their cost was so high. First, they are special. The stock K0~K8 series rod bolts get tightened to 14 lbs. The Carillos get tightened until the bolt is stretched to a specific length, mine took 43/44 foot lbs! The carton had 317 stamped onto the end and I had no clue as to what that was until I open each of the 4 boxes inside - each had 317 printed too. This was 317 grams, what is amazing is that all 4 (with their special wave bolts) were within .3 gram (3/10's of 1 gram) of each other. Here are photos of 2 different C-rods and then the fat, heavy stocker at 355 grams. There was more that 2.0 grams difference in the 4 stockers when compared to each other. The precise, exact wrist pins varied more in weights than did the entire C-rods.

The question you'd have to ask yourself is whether you need them. Are the other components going to support the added rpm? Are you doing extreme porting, adding cam lift and timing, springs, and valve work to change the output design of that engine to the point the expense is justified? The CB750 needs them if the engine is going to exceed stock rpm levels. The stockers won't live in the 10,000 range for long. To get the 750 to go there requires a lot of work/expense to add porting along with components that will allow it to make use of the added rpm. If the additional rpm and output of any Honda isn't going to change, then the stock rods have alway proved adequate. For me, it was absolutely required - I would definitely lose a rod and destroy a big investment, then run the risk of dumping 3 quarts of oil in front of my rear tire at speed in a corner. I ride in the mountains and curves are an everyday privalage.

Works of art in my opinion, too bad they can't be seen. They are the best piece of "bling" I've installed on this old Honda.... Gordon







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Offline crazypj

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2010, 06:06:48 am »
What are some Alternatives to Carillo rods?  I have seen Robinson Engineering in the UK, can do 400F rods, but the exchange on the dollar is not worth it right now.
My primary objection to Carillo is price.  I have started making the rounds around the various car rod manufacturers to see if they offer 400F rods, but it seems that they are all a custom order deal. 

 The exchange rate is about as good as it gets, I keep a pretty close eye on it
( I'm still paying a mortgage in Britain so I send cash every month)
 The only time it was better was Jan 2009
 What do you intend to do that you need Carrillo's?

PJ
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2010, 09:48:48 am »
My intentions in the near future are to use the Spare 1976 400F engine I have to install the Web #3 grind cam (stage 2) and the RD valve springs that I acquired for crazy cheap.  Also I scored big on a set of CR 26 Carbs from a forum member (i had what he needed, he had these carbs).  Also I will be purchasing 54.5 mm pistons, probably doing some porting on the head.
Because the Web #3 grind cam makes power to 12k I will want to upgrade the rods.
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
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1975 Norton Commando

Offline kslrr

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2010, 09:49:50 am »
Talk to these guys. http://www.ttr400.com/  Falicon Knife Edge rods are less expensive, I believe.
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
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Then 1972 CL175
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Offline MattFreeman

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2010, 10:17:50 am »
I picked up a set of reconditioned and balanced rods (ed. and shot blasted) for my 750, hoping they would be an improvement over stock. I don't know if they are but maybe some one who knows will interject on the subject, giving you another option.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 03:03:15 pm by MattFreeman »

Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2010, 11:03:15 am »
Another option might be to shot peen the honda rods.

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2010, 01:05:26 pm »
Another option might be to shot peen the honda rods.

I am interested in looking into this.  Does anyone have any recommendation of shops that do this?  I am Northern California, but I am not opposed to shipping rods in the US. 
I am also going to give Falicon a call. 
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
1965 CB160
1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
1975 Norton Commando

Offline wannabridin

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2010, 06:50:27 am »
shoot MReick a PM.  he can let you know how much it costs to do this, as he has the capabilities to do this i believe.  also, if you're going to pay to have them peened, you might as well balance the stockers too.  along with the crank, then you'll have a smooth reciprocating assembly, which will aid in the overall performance and driveability of the motor.
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Offline Doctor_D

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2010, 07:01:46 am »
I polished, shotpeened, cryo treated, and balanced the stock assembly.  I also used stronger 77-78 750F rod bolts.  That's about all you can do to a stock rod.

Haven't run them yet, so keeping my fingers crossed.
Take care,
David
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1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline wannabridin

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2010, 07:10:54 am »
this is about everything i've heard you can do to the stockers, but it does make a good difference with those on a budget!  you can do all this and balance your stock crank for less than the cost of a set of carillos...
1976 CB750K, currently under construction:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64468.0

-And if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do...

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2010, 01:48:10 pm »
I just spoke with Falicon Rods, they are cheaper than Carillo, but I would have to order several sets. Not sure I want that many.  Group buy maybe?
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
1965 CB160
1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
1975 Norton Commando

Offline wannabridin

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2010, 01:53:08 pm »
did they give you a price per set on the minimum quantity?
1976 CB750K, currently under construction:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64468.0

-And if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do...

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2010, 05:05:15 pm »
I have a meeting set up with the owner to try and negotiate a lower price if we can get 12 sets (48 rods).  PM me if you are interested in the rods I will give further details as I am still talking to other rod makers.
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
1965 CB160
1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
1975 Norton Commando

Offline Industrial Rat400f Killer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2010, 06:31:48 pm »
I might get in on the group buy of rods if the price is right.

Offline 754

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2010, 11:14:53 pm »
Good luck.. IMO.. I think you would be doing well to get 4 or 5 ordering..
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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2010, 11:29:34 pm »
Good luck.. IMO.. I think you would be doing well to get 4 or 5 ordering..

I have five people who have sent me messages right now who are very interested, plus myself.  If you would like to try and get in on a group buy and see if we can make this happen please send me a private message.
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
1965 CB160
1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
1975 Norton Commando

Offline 754

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2010, 11:40:36 pm »
 Looks good if you got that many people..

 I dont have any 400;s  I got in on a 750 rod buy, but sadly have not gotten to use them yet..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline wannabridin

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2010, 10:21:21 am »
are these for the 400's or the 750's?  i guess i confused myself here...
1976 CB750K, currently under construction:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64468.0

-And if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do...

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2010, 11:44:18 am »
Alright I have been talking with the guys at Crower Rods.  I have used Crower rods in the past in a honda civic and they make a great product.  This is also original Crower, not family members who have broken off to form their own companies.  When asking the rep about 50-70 HP CB400Fs he laughed and said he mostly deals with 600+HP Busa's.

Sets of Crower rods for $700 ($175 per rod). Quantity seems to be the issue, orders will have to be minimum or 12 sets.  Once the order is submitted they should take 6-8 weeks for delivery. 

This is less than half the price of the MSRP for Carillo Rods.

email me if interested.

Eric
ericmaas@gmail.com
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
1965 CB160
1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2010, 02:08:17 pm »
FYI - My 750 new Crower rods weigh in at 50gm more than my new Carillos. The stock rod weight is in between them. Perhaps you might want to inquire about that aspect if you haven't done so. I'd like to think an order of 12 sets of Carillos might bring the price down. 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2010, 03:31:42 pm »
I called Carillo first.  The cheapest I can get them without ordering $35,000 worth of product per year is $1100 per set.  

As far as the weight is concerned my guy at Crower claims that they will model the rod for a 315-320 gram weigh in CAD prior to making them.
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
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1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
1975 Norton Commando

Offline Big Jay

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2010, 06:24:25 pm »
I called Carillo first.  The cheapest I can get them without ordering $35,000 worth of product per year is $1100 per set.  

As far as the weight is concerned my guy at Crower claims that they will model the rod for a 315-320 gram weigh in CAD prior to making them.

That is an awful heavy 400 rod. We still talking 400s?

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2010, 10:39:33 pm »
I called Carillo first.  The cheapest I can get them without ordering $35,000 worth of product per year is $1100 per set.  

As far as the weight is concerned my guy at Crower claims that they will model the rod for a 315-320 gram weigh in CAD prior to making them.

That is an awful heavy 400 rod. We still talking 400s?

Yes Jay we are talking 400F rods.  I am sure we can work the weights down to be competitive with the other rods.  However, the point here is not to have the lightest possible rods offered here.  The point is to have an affordable set available to 400F owners who want to take advantage of low priced big bore kits out there.

As far as the weights I mentioned before those were based off the photos of the rods someone else posted on the first page.  In review I see those are CB750 rods.  I will mention this to Crower tomorrow.  I am sure when the actual engineering numbers come back from Crower we can get more accurate weights.
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
1965 CB160
1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
1975 Norton Commando

Offline ttr400

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2010, 12:24:49 am »
Some weights for you.

Crower 400F rod 279 Gr.
Carillo 400F rod 264 Gr.
CB400F Stock B rod 250 Gr.
CB400F Stock D Rod 255 Gr.

A Genuine CB400F RSC rod is around 260 Grams.

Kevin
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Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2010, 09:04:31 am »
Some weights for you.

Crower 400F rod 279 Gr.
Carillo 400F rod 264 Gr.
CB400F Stock B rod 250 Gr.
CB400F Stock D Rod 255 Gr.

A Genuine CB400F RSC rod is around 260 Grams.

Kevin

Thank you Kevin.
1961 CB72
1961 CB77
1962 CB77
1962 CB77
1965 CB160
1970 Triumph Bonneville
1972 Honda CB450
1975 Norton Commando

Offline specweld

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2010, 11:45:16 pm »
The english supplier is ROBSON ENG. I now have them in my CB400 , they are good people to deal with, ask for Carl.
If you want to see the results of not upping the rods , go to the high performance section and look up 'my CB400'.
The pics are in reverse order, they should show the blown engine and then the new one being built,there are pics which show the robson rods.

Offline crazypj

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2010, 11:47:56 pm »
CB350F, stock rods  ;D

 The sand is from 'storage', it is punched out
 Just twist some up out of old coat hangers, it will be 'fine'  :D

PJ
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 11:51:10 pm by crazypj »
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Alternatives to Carillo Rods?
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2011, 02:10:55 pm »
Some weights for you.

Crower 400F rod 279 Gr.
Carillo 400F rod 264 Gr.
CB400F Stock B rod 250 Gr.
CB400F Stock D Rod 255 Gr.

A Genuine CB400F RSC rod is around 260 Grams.

Kevin

I have a set of Robson Engineering Rods here and just weighed one of them, 326 Gr. including bolts and nuts
A couple of 400F's and a
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