Topic: Chains, chains and more chains... I'm confused

[Gears]

I read through the chain FAQ and I've searched for posts on chains and I'm just confusing myself.

I'm replacing the 530 chain on my K5 CB750, and I'm looking to replace it with a non-o-ring chain.

What's confusing to me is how most standard 530 chains say they are good for much smaller displacement bikes. Even some of the heavy duty chains aren't rated for a 750. How can this be true if our bikes originally came with non-o-ring chains?

What kind of tensile strength do I really need?

And any recommendations on brands?

[Terry in Australia]

Have you got an industrial chain supplier nearby mate? I bought a heavy duty 630H Diamond chain for my 77 CB750F2 from my local chain supplier for 70 bucks after being quoted a whopping 200 bucks from Honda, and it's considerably more "heavy duty" than the OEM chain. Cheers, Terry.  

[Hush]

I think we pay about $70 (Kiwi) for a 530 chain for our bikes.



http://www.reginachain.it/eng/products/motorcycles.shtml

[dave500]

do we still have reynolds chain outlets terry?there was one in townsville when i was there in 94.

[CB750F2]

Dave, there are Reynold Chain outlets in Aust. There is still one in Townsville and most likely in all the major cities. Pat, Nth Qld

[andy750]

Contact:

 http://www.loudfastugly.com/

They will provide you with a good non o-ring chain at a good price. And they are in upstate NY not far from Jersey

[Bodi]

A current 600cc bike makes over 100 horsepower, a 750 runs around 150HP. A stock SOHC4 CB750 maybe 60HP. "Superbike" chain is way overkill for these bikes, if it's marked as suitable for a 450 or 500 that's definitely OK. Modern water cooled 450 motocross engines have similar HP to a CB750 plus more stressful power pulses from the single cylinder.
I would recommend a chain from RK, DID, Tsubaki, or an equally reputable company - specifically a packaged chain sold for motorcycle use. Industrial chain (sold from a large reel rather than in bike-size lengths in a small box) can be suitable but is almost always low strength and poorly made, designed for conveyor belt drives and the like. These don't usually break on lower power bikes but they stretch unevenly from the varying and pulsing load of motorcycle use. Just one aggressive start can give you a stretched section and the tight-loose-tight-loose-tight-loose chain action as the wheel turns, the distinctive characteristic of a cheap chain.
Remember you should replace both sprockets when replacing a chain in most circumstances. Installing a weak chain on your new sprockets (not cheap) is not a good idea. When the chain stretches the sprockets will rapidly be damaged.

[mycb750k6]

Wait a minute. I'm not buying replacing both sprockets when replacing a chain. Seems like being a little over-cautious. I just bought a Diamond Powersport 530 chain in 102 links at the recommendation of the H-man and I love it.

[333]

Then you, mycb750k6, will be replacing that chain much sooner than expected.  Chain and sprockets wear at the same rate.  Changing one without the other will result in about 10% of the normal life of a set.

[MCRider]

In my experience if you don't let the chaiin get really bad before replacing it, you can go 2 or 3 chains to a set of sprockets. Yes each chain will wear a little faster, say 10% faster, but in the cost analysis this is acceptable. 10% of a $100 chain is $10 (assuming you spend $100, I think good chains are available for less) vs whatever you want to spend on sprockets, easily $55 or more.

For my current project I had my new sprockets cryogenically treated for $25. If it lives up to its hype, I should get 3 to 5 chains or more per sprockets, if I live that long.  

YMMV, do whatever turns you on.

PS: You can have the chains cryo treated as well. If that lives up to its hype, I doubt I'll ever change the chain or sprockets in my lifetime. I don't ride as much as I used to.

[mycb750k6]

MCRider, Are you the guy I bought my 48 tooth cryo from??? If so, may I have another??

[MCRider]

MCRider, Are you the guy I bought my 48 tooth cryo from??? If so, may I have another??

That would be me. I can't remember if I sold the last one or not. If i still have it I know where it should be and I'll be in the shop this afternoon and check. If so yes its for sale.

[mycb750k6]

OK I'll take it. I REALLY love the one I have.

[MCRider]

OK I'll take it. I REALLY love the one I have.

Ain't (trick) parts fun? 

[Gears]

Then you, mycb750k6, will be replacing that chain much sooner than expected.  Chain and sprockets wear at the same rate.  Changing one without the other will result in about 10% of the normal life of a set.

I'm not replacing my sprockets either, but that's because they don't seem to have much, if any, real wear. I'm thinking the PO must have changed them before putting the bike away for a few years. The chain's not worn out, just rusted pretty badly.

Wait a minute. I'm not buying replacing both sprockets when replacing a chain. Seems like being a little over-cautious. I just bought a Diamond Powersport 530 chain in 102 links at the recommendation of the H-man and I love it.

Diamond Powersports huh? Since Hondaman recommends them, I'll have to check them out. Was it a non-o-ring chain?

[lrutt]

Or the old trick we used to do on bikes, turn the sprocket around to pull on the other side of the tooth. Like a new sprocket then. Many bikes used to allow this, I don't recall if the 750 will.

[MCRider]

Or the old trick we used to do on bikes, turn the sprocket around to pull on the other side of the tooth. Like a new sprocket then. Many bikes used to allow this, I don't recall if the 750 will.

That too. The front can be flipped. The rear has an offset, minor, but its there.

[Bodi]

Sprockets and chains are easy to check for replacement time. After you install a new chain, ride for a few hours to loosen it up. Then just pull the chain away at the back of the rear sprocket: it should lift about half the tooth height. If it lifts enough so you can see the sprocket teeth under it then the sprocket is worn out. It will shorten the chain life considerably. You can't do this on the small front sprocket but you can assume that's worn out if the rear one is.
Same with chain, if you replace the sprockets but think your old chain is still OK do the same test. A worn chain will wear down the sprockets faster too.
A chain and sprockets wear in together, the chain rollers wear inside and outside, and the sprocket teeth get ground down. If you change only chain or sprockets, the new parts will fairly rapidly wear to the dimensions of the old worn part they work against.
No, you don't always need to change everything. If you lube the chain properly, adjust the chain tension regularly, and don't try to do wheelies by revving and dropping the clutch, the chain and sprockets will have a long and happy life. But once you need a new chain, those sprockets will be worn out enough that your new chain will have a dramatically shorter life if you neglect to replace them. You can wear out a chain long before the sprockets by letting it rust and get filled with grit, or by abusing it with jerky wheelie attempts.

[mycb750k6]

Yes we're always talking non-O-ring chains here I think. O-ring chains eat HP - and that's a quote from the man himself. In fact I have a new O-ring 530 I'd let go for a song because I bought it before I was enlightened. I personally don't mind lubing and fussin with my chain all the time because I like to keep it clean too. I'm one of those folks who threw a chain though the case of my 71 K1 way back in 71 so I know what happens when you don't maintain them.

[phrige]

I'm in pretty much the same boat as Gears. My chain is rusty from sitting out (P.O. leaving it outside), and the sprockets seem covered in grime, but when compared to pictures of new sprockets it really looks like theres very little wear on them.

Did the chain test and the chain is pretty good other than the rust.

 It was recommended that I change the whole set (on another forum) so as they can wear even. I'm still mulling it over. I dont want to just buy new parts if it's unnecessary. Is it perfect world change both, reality you can get away with more? I mean if your able to flip sprockets to stretch the life line, I'm hoping cleaning mine up will do.

Now my big problem is I'm having trouble unscrewing the case to the front sprocket. The screws are on REAALLY tight and the phillips heads are starting to shred. I'm ganna pick up a bottle of FreeAll if i can find it. Any other suggestions on getting this sucker open?
Do I need a air gun to do it?

[Gears]

Yes we're always talking non-O-ring chains here I think. O-ring chains eat HP - and that's a quote from the man himself. In fact I have a new O-ring 530 I'd let go for a song because I bought it before I was enlightened. I personally don't mind lubing and fussin with my chain all the time because I like to keep it clean too. I'm one of those folks who threw a chain though the case of my 71 K1 way back in 71 so I know what happens when you don't maintain them.

They eat hp? Is that from friction of the o-ring between the links?

I think I'll pass on the o-ring chain then, since the man says so XD. Where did you get your Diamond chain?

[MCRider]

Yes we're always talking non-O-ring chains here I think. O-ring chains eat HP - and that's a quote from the man himself. In fact I have a new O-ring 530 I'd let go for a song because I bought it before I was enlightened. I personally don't mind lubing and fussin with my chain all the time because I like to keep it clean too. I'm one of those folks who threw a chain though the case of my 71 K1 way back in 71 so I know what happens when you don't maintain them.

They eat hp? Is that from friction of the o-ring between the links?

I think I'll pass on the o-ring chain then, since the man says so XD. Where did you get your Diamond chain?

More friction = less HP. But you gotta figure all modern (Jap, Euro) bikes use ORing chains, and HP competition between manufacturers is intense. In my experience, ORing chains last a lot longer and require less maintenence. An XRing chain has less of the rubber rubbing. So weigh the pros and cons. There are proble plenty of places you are wasting bits of HP.

[Terry in Australia]

Industrial chain (sold from a large reel rather than in bike-size lengths in a small box) can be suitable but is almost always low strength and poorly made, designed for conveyor belt drives and the like. These don't usually break on lower power bikes but they stretch unevenly from the varying and pulsing load of motorcycle use. Just one aggressive start can give you a stretched section and the tight-loose-tight-loose-tight-loose chain action as the wheel turns, the distinctive characteristic of a cheap chain.

I agree entirely mate, but the chain I bought from the industrial chain suppliers is a heavy duty "H" rated chain, designed specifically for motorcycles. I know there are cheaper, crappier industrial chains out there that are not rated for motorcycle use, but my supplier sells lots of chains to the local motorcycle shops, and got these chains in for just that purpose. Compared to the OEM chain, it's massive.

I'm taking a set of primary chains over to them on Friday to see what they've got, they told me that they've got some chain that's used on a particular brand of German sports car, that looks remarkably similar to the H/D CB750 primary chains some folks are selling for 600 bucks? Interesting..........

I'd steer clear of some of the Taiwanese or Chinese motorcycle chains being offered by some internet sellers, I actually bought one a couple of years ago, and it's poorer quality than the original Honda "Case Breakers"...........

I also agree with your points regarding replacing the chain with the sprockets as a set, my OEM chain and sprockets on my 1981 Suzuki GS1000S are getting to the end of their lives now, but after 50,000 miles and almost 30 years, a couple of hundred bucks for new chains and sprockets is a cheap investment. While the sprockets still look good and the chain doesn't pull away from them, I can see "witness marks" on the chain rollers and sprocket teeth that I don't want to transfer to the new items. Cheers, Terry.    

[BobbyR]

Contact:

 http://www.loudfastugly.com/

They will provide you with a good non o-ring chain at a good price. And they are in upstate NY not far from Jersey

+1 Brian is a top dude and I buy all my chains from him. He lives 5 miles from me. I stick with the stock 630 chain, less hassle.

[phrige]

Thanks for the link Andy + Bobby. I live in North Jersey so I'm hoping it works out. Its slightly cheaper for chain and nearby so why not. I much rather put my money into the independent entrepreneurs anyway.

Email is sent. lets see what he's got in the way of some other parts i axed about.