testy

Author Topic: Ignition Problems  (Read 17844 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Ignition Problems
« on: September 10, 2010, 06:18:37 pm »
Doesn't matter what SOHC 4, I am just looking for information.

Please post the manufacture of your aftermarket ignition and the type of failure if you have had one.



Back Story:

I installed a Dyna unit on my K6 last year, for this whole summer i chased an intermittent loss of power during my rides.I blamed everything except the ignition, I cleaned and reinstalled the carburetors, reset the floats, then rebuilt and installed a nice set of F carburetors I had. I replaced the coils one at a time, I changed spark plugs  hotter, then colder.

Finally, I  determined it was the solid state ignition, #2&3 switch. That it fails when the motor is hot, that it runs fine with point cover off.

These two paragraphs took me several weeks of tinkering, and as usual I learned a lot of things about my K6, much more then when it is running well.


My experience with the Dyna service department has been less then pleasing. First thing they will not sell just the switch, they assume everyone is incompetent to remove two screws and two wires. ::)

I got the RA#shipped the unit with a description of the failure mode, then waited three weeks for the unit to be returned.

I carefully documented the failure mode of only when hot, and no failure with the points cover removed.  I measured the temp of the points cover after 1/2 hour of running and told them I felt the unit fails above 125 deg F.

Dyna ran it 25 minutes at a large gap with no failure, shipped it back to me without repair. No indication of testing at elevated temperature.


Short of it is, I am trying to decide should I fight on, make them fix the unit, of just give up, run on the points, and use the Dyna for a paper weight.


Thanks to Nikkisix for his advice & help
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 06:27:42 pm by Markcb750 »

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 08:06:45 pm »
Stock electronic ignition on my '79 CB650 has given me no problems.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Spanner 1

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,911
  • CB 750 K0 ( always thought it was a K1!) + CB750K8
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 10:37:58 pm »
Dang, I tried to vote twice for 'stock ignition, no failure '... but the Poll is too smart, Oh well :D
In every post I can ,I 'boost' the stock ignition over all other options, some agree with me for stock use of the bike and some slag me off as 'old fart' retro crank... we will see what the Poll says..... one caveat tho',
when HM's ignition mod. was explained to me ( by TT, not HM), I do see an advantage in it over stock points set-up, at least at startup and low rpms... I would want my point ignition when riding 2x 700 mile weekends lately, too scared for anything else...... IMO.
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2010, 04:34:12 am »
Dang, I tried to vote twice for 'stock ignition, no failure '... but the Poll is too smart, Oh well :D
In every post I can ,I 'boost' the stock ignition over all other options, some agree with me for stock use of the bike and some slag me off as 'old fart' retro crank... we will see what the Poll says..... one caveat tho',
when HM's ignition mod. was explained to me ( by TT, not HM), I do see an advantage in it over stock points set-up, at least at startup and low rpms... I would want my point ignition when riding 2x 700 mile weekends lately, too scared for anything else...... IMO.

Sounds like I need to allow multiple votes, and trust no one will stuff the ballot.

I trust Hondaman, but are there any Dyna or Boyer sycophants here? ::) :)

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,918
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 08:39:04 am »
You allowed 2 votes for different choices, but I have the Dyna-S in two bikes with no failures, so add an extra for my vote.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 08:48:00 am »
Thanks Gordon, I will note this in my final tally.

Offline Skunk Stripe

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2010, 08:30:34 am »
I have used the stock and the S in the same bike and both worked fine. Dyna performs better though.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2010, 05:07:16 am »
Skunk Stripe

Thanks for your input.

What about the Dyna do you believe performs better?

Looks like I am the only one who has had a problem with the Dyna, interesting.

Offline mystic_1

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,075
  • 1970 CB750K
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2010, 07:24:39 am »
The thing about points is that, short of gross mechanical damage, they will rarely if ever leave you stranded.  A screwdriver, nail file, and a matchbook can usually sort out any problems.  When electronic ignitions fail, there's almost nothing you can do.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,918
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2010, 10:39:04 am »
The thing about points is that, short of gross mechanical damage, they will rarely if ever leave you stranded.  A screwdriver, nail file, and a matchbook can usually sort out any problems.  When electronic ignitions fail, there's almost nothing you can do.

mystic_1

It's true, but on a long trip where I might find myself stranded, I'd be packing several spare parts.  Spark plugs, fuses, tubes and irons, etc.  Even if I had the stock ignition I'd still have a spare plate with new points and condensers in my kit.  So having the Dyna doesn't put me at any additional risk.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2010, 12:48:44 pm »
The thing about points is that, short of gross mechanical damage, they will rarely if ever leave you stranded.  A screwdriver, nail file, and a matchbook can usually sort out any problems.  When electronic ignitions fail, there's almost nothing you can do.

mystic_1


which would be why I am very disappointed with Dyna's service, despite my clear indication of a heat related failure, they did not even test my unit in an equivalent way before declaring it OK and sending it back..Bad business.

Offline Skunk Stripe

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2010, 08:05:28 pm »
Well when I switched, starting was faster. Warm up became quicker. Throttle response became quicker. I have had it for 4 years or something like that and never a hiccup.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2010, 05:10:51 pm »
fishing


Offline Nikkisixx

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 839
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2010, 04:26:41 pm »
The darn electronic units look so good on paper, but they never seem to deliver.  Get the stock system to work right and spend the extra money on speeding tickets or a new side cover emblem  ;D
It is a proven fact that modifying a SOHC Honda in any way will bring on the apocalypse.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 04:50:30 pm »
The ton exposes weaknesses one does not anticipate...

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,326
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2010, 05:25:28 pm »
The way i look at it is that all modern bikes for the last 20+ years have electronic ignition, points are old technology.
Did your Dyna fail again once returned to you?

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2010, 05:31:14 pm »
The way i look at it is that all modern bikes for the last 20+ years have electronic ignition, points are old technology.
Did your Dyna fail again once returned to you?

Mick

Because Dyna did not test it properly I am reluctant to re-install the unit and wind up limping home again.

Offline ofreen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,236
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2010, 03:03:47 am »
Dyna S ignition installed on my '75 750F in 4/90 at 30,550 miles.  The same ignition is still in there, untouched in all those years.  Mileage now at 125,375.  Cost then was $88, bought from Competition Accessories, if I remember right.
Greg
'75 CB750F


“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”
― Mark Twain

Offline Nikkisixx

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 839
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2010, 06:35:19 am »
The way i look at it is that all modern bikes for the last 20+ years have electronic ignition, points are old technology.
Mick

Hey mick - that seems like a strange point of view from someone that enjoys classic bikes  ;)
By the same logic we should run fuel injection, disk brakes all around (with ABS), tubless tires on spokeless rims, and (gasp) heads with multi valves and twin cams!   

Hmmm, fuel injection - that actually sounds like a good idea.  Time to head out to the garage!
 ;D ;D ;D
It is a proven fact that modifying a SOHC Honda in any way will bring on the apocalypse.

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,326
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2010, 04:22:35 pm »
The way i look at it is that all modern bikes for the last 20+ years have electronic ignition, points are old technology.
Mick

Hey mick - that seems like a strange point of view from someone that enjoys classic bikes  ;)
By the same logic we should run fuel injection, disk brakes all around (with ABS), tubless tires on spokeless rims, and (gasp) heads with multi valves and twin cams!   

Hmmm, fuel injection - that actually sounds like a good idea.  Time to head out to the garage!
 ;D ;D ;D

Well, seeing though i am running a modern billet block, modern alloy pistons, gsxr forks and swing arm , brakes and wheels and fuel injection, i'm not really sure what your point is.?  ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
My point was that electronic ignitions are all that is used these days so i would definitely say that points are old and not as accurate as electronic ignitions and less reliable over time..... ;D

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline gnarlycharlie4u

  • Far from being an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 839
  • two steps forward, two steps back :-/
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2010, 05:50:32 pm »
I've got the Hondaman ignition on mine and have no failures yet. *knock on wood*
I'm pretty sure my timing needs to be adjusted though :-\

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 11:40:57 am »
Just too keep people up to date, I have made two calls to Dyna attempting to resolve my issues, best they can do for me now is trade me for $69...


Not kewl.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,615
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 01:40:19 pm »
The way i look at it is that all modern bikes for the last 20+ years have electronic ignition, points are old technology.
Did your Dyna fail again once returned to you?

Mick

Because Dyna did not test it properly I am reluctant to re-install the unit and wind up limping home again.

Do you have a heat gun and a temperature probe?  You could stress test it in your garage to gain (or lose) confidence.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Markcb750

  • Guest
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2010, 03:50:07 pm »
Yes TT I have both, I may amuse myself testing the system this winter. 


My wife will be glad if I camp in the garage and I am not hanging around the house, listening to 70's alternative rock too loud for her.

Offline BeSeeingYou

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,872
Re: Ignition Problems
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2010, 10:39:09 pm »
Stock points ignition on all my bikes.  Never a failure in 31 years and 30K miles on the 79 XS650 nor on the few thousand I have put on the 76F1.  The 75 XS sat for 20 years till I rescued it and started right up after I cleaned and reset the points and plugs and changed the oil.

 

;
Honda