Topic: Erik Buell is back!

[vanillagorilla]

http://www.erikbuellracing.com/

I know alot of you guys were ticked off, like me, when HD killed Buell. I noticed on Mythbusters that they were using an Erik Buell Racing bike for a myth... Googled it and found this! I KNEW Erik wasnt going to go away that easy! He made the 1125 look even better, and now offers an 1190 making 180hp @ the wheel! Wanted to share with you guys and get your opinion... How stupid do you think HD was for letting Buell go?

[754]

 I will tell you 2 years from now...

[MCRider]

Buell Racing has always been there. Bikes aren't street legal.

Harley never made a dime on street legal Buells, stupid is in the eyes of the bank account holder. Harley has serious issues which mauy threaten survival, which i submit would be a major loss for ALL of motorcycling, whether you like harleys or not. Without their volume many aftermarket suppliers won'tsurvive. Many of whom have sidelines making stuff for our low volume interests.

Buell, Romantic yes, otherwise...?

[Damfino]

I will tell you 2 years from now...

I'm with 754 on this. Erik Buell is from what I understand, a brilliant engineer & bike builder. Unfortunately, he doesn't build the type of bikes I like, so I have a hard time getting excited over his return. That said, I do wish him success though, as I think America could use more, serious bike building companies, and less, bike building TV reality stars...

[Damfino]

Harley has serious issues which mauy threaten survival, which i submit would be a major loss for ALL of motorcycling, whether you like harleys or not. Without their volume many aftermarket suppliers won'tsurvive. Many of whom have sidelines making stuff for our low volume interests.

Very, very true...

[754]

 He will now have  much freer reign to create what he wants, providing he gets financial support.
 
 Being at the Motor Company meant being constrained by corporate policies/attitudes/decision making...

 He is on a whole different game now, if he does real well, you cant just say HD lost that.. it may never have been possible while being there..

 I think it will be less bikes, but far more exciting bikes..

[scartail]

He will now have  much freer reign to create what he wants, providing he gets financial support.
 
 Being at the Motor Company meant being constrained by corporate policies/attitudes/decision making...

 He is on a whole different game now, if he does real well, you cant just say HD lost that.. it may never have been possible while being there..

 I think it will be less bikes, but far more exciting bikes..

I'm with you 754.

I think Buell's popularitywas stiffled by HD.

[MCRider]

My bad, he evdently snuck back in with street legal bikes too.
http://www.buell.com/en_us/tools/compare-bikes/

Where is he sourcing engines, Helicon and Thunderstorm?

Are they rebadged HD or something more different?

[MCRider]

He will now have  much freer reign to create what he wants, providing he gets financial support.
 
 Being at the Motor Company meant being constrained by corporate policies/attitudes/decision making...

 He is on a whole different game now, if he does real well, you cant just say HD lost that.. it may never have been possible while being there..

 I think it will be less bikes, but far more exciting bikes..

I'm with you 754.

I think Buell's popularity was stiffled by HD.

I think it was a mutual stifling in that he chose HD engines. I think that's where his potential market said no mas.

Now with these other engines, the doors may open up. Even though they are V2s, they are not HD.

[MCRider]

Answer my own question. Engines are a joint venture with Porsche/Bombsadier/Rotax. Porsche helped Harley with its V-Rod engine, but it was too big for Buell small chassis. The Helicon and Thunderstorm are gamechangers.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/100702.html

Still using the Harley trick of publishing crankshaft HP when everyone else publishes rear wheel, but won't hold that against them.

Go Buell.

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

Harley never made a dime on street legal Buells, stupid is in the eyes of the bank account holder. Harley has serious issues which mauy threaten survival, which i submit would be a major loss for ALL of motorcycling, whether you like harleys or not. Without their volume many aftermarket suppliers won'tsurvive. Many of whom have sidelines making stuff for our low volume interests.

Buell, Romantic yes, otherwise...?

Well put, I understand why people don't like HD but I agree that if they were gone we all would be affected negatively. Also how many people would lose there jobs. I don't pretend to know anything about business so I really have no idea if HD will regret killing the Buell line. My guess is HD's bean counters convinced HD to do it to try to skip over the recession.

I do hope Erik is successful because I like the Vtwin sport bikes and also because I like it when US based companies succeed. We need more jobs here.

Just so I beat everyone to the obvious joke response to my post.

"yeah, think of all those mechanics that would be out of work if there were no HD's"
 

BTW I like all bikes including HD's

[BobbyR]

Buell was a low volume bike and in itls next life may remain one. HD needs volume and they are really struggling as it is. They just told their workers and Union that if they did not make concessions, they would leave Milwaukee. Success has been one of HD's problems, when there was a waiting list, they were prized. Now I could drive over and just buy one and pick it up in a few days. No longer an exclusive club.

[Little_Horse]

I just think the market for motorcycles is changing. If you look at the percentage of younger riders and how many of them have or want to have a HD the outcome looks bleak. Harleys best shot is to find what would attract the younger riders and build that in addition to what has worked for them in the past. One eye on the future one eye on the past.

Instead it seems as though they keep thinking "it worked before it should work now," but we all know a company that doesn't see change coming and change themselves won't make it. The market is changing with the generations and the younger generation isn't buying into the one thing that sold Harleys the most over the last 20 yrs and that was the image. I am a younger rider, I like motorcycles in general but I wouldn't buy a Harley myself and I have no one that I know my age who wants one either...

[754]

 That is because your group is into other bikes.. not many sportbikers at a H.O.G. function..
 I see no shortage around here of young H-D riders. or any age group..

[Retro Rocket]

Your right Frank but what about the "trend" buyers.....there are piles of them, and as we all know, trends change...

Mick

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

Tyhat is because your group is into other bikes.. not many sportbikers at a H.O.G. function..
 I see no shortage around here of young H-D riders. or any age group..

Same here, I hang out with vintage enthusiasts mostly but I have several friends in their 30's that have or want a HD. I do believe HD needs to create some new bikes to "keep one eye on the future and one on the past" as mentioned earlier.

[Little_Horse]

Well I wasn't just talking about my riding friends. Obviously we would be biased I was also talking about my non riding friends just aren't attracted to the image that used to sell harleys. In fact a lot of people are turned off by the ultra macho kinda attitude that Harley has cultivated and capitalized on for so long. It is worn out as a trend, maybe after a break from it for a while it could be popular again but IMO its been over used.

As far as Buell is concerned I am rooting for them I have always liked people who dream a little different and who have the courage to go for it. Harley and Buell where never a good fit it is too bad they had to crush Buell instead of selling or setting them free. To me it seemed arrogant, like they believed there HD was so much better then Buell it just deserved to be flattened and had no chance.

[754]

The Harley "image"is only part of the picture..


 I know lots of people that really like them, that are not on them for the image..

 I know people on many brands of bikes, that like em for a lot of different reasons...

[Little_Horse]

The Harley "image"is only part of the picture..


 I know lots of people that really like them, that are not on them for the image..

 I know people on many brands of bikes, that like em for a lot of different reasons...

Well I agree there are a lot of people that like them just for how they are as bikes, they where never sold on the image but they love the machine. However Harley didn't and doesn't market their bikes like this instead it is mostly about image is all. It just seems from my small corner of the motorcycle planet that the younger crowd isn't buying into it and Harley's sales depend on the next generation buying into their bikes as much as this past one has. I hope that Harley notices because it isn't that I wish them gone I just wouldn't mind seeing them try to build and inspire the next generation to want their product, to ride, to modify, and to call their own. Right now though it just isn't happening. I don't think I am being to rough on them, I know I am not the only younger person to feel this way. IMO Buell was the best thing they had going for them, but it was never set free to really go for the next generation like it was supposed to.

[754]

 The last few years were abnormally bad for the industry as a whole.. Pretty well all brands are wondering how to get sales back to where they were..IMO..

 Buell and H-D scratched each others back, and both got something out of it..

 I think things will settle out for the industry as a whole, but there are deep scars/lessons, that wont soon be forgotten..

 IMO Honda dropped the ball on the Fury,  major late entry into a fast declining market.. not like Honda to do that.. It may speak volumes though on how long it takes them to get into production..?

[Retro Rocket]

Lets no forget here that Harley has been bailed out a pile of times by the Government, sooner or later the Government will let them slide.
That in itself doesn't sound like a good business management profile. Time for change like the rest of the world or they will be left behind. I don't consider comparing Harley with Honda a great example, Honda knows its customers and markets and diversifies to suit, Harley doesn't.....I know which one will be around longer...

Mick

[Little_Horse]

yeah honda dropped the ball for sure with the Fury and with the Dn-01 too. However, at least they try to do a few things different, they take a chance and these two are evidence of it going wrong, but Honda has taken gambles on a number of bikes that now all of us call iconic and love.

Honestly I miss Buell I used to meander into Harley dealers to sneak a peak and try and sit on them unnoticed by the sales people. It is a shame.

[754]

If Honda "knows its market", Why did the Fury come out when the 2nd chopper craze was starting to wind down..

 The only thing I have seen from Honda in 20 + years that I would even think of owning are the Ruckus, and the Fury..minus its engine.... just my opinion..

[Retro Rocket]

If Honda "knows its market", Why did th Fury coe out when the 2nd chopper craze was starting to wind down..

Be real Frank, look which company is doing better, Honda takes risks,they win some {most} and they loose some {not many} Harley takes no risks and it shows.....I wish you would read a whole post and work out what it means mate because you often miss the point ......I already have a wife......

Mick

[754]

Wel you have to admit, the Japan Four finally managed to finally outsell HD in the Heavy weight market (1000cc and over)

 It has been 10 or 12 yrs now that the FOUR of them finally surpassed HD production...