Topic: Non-running CB550F into (hopefully) just total freaking glory!!

[ZoomyZen]

Ok, so I guess I'll kick off my build thread even though I don't have the bike yet, though I do have photos!!!!  I was going to get it tomorrow but my buddy apparently is attending a knife show in Portland to score some finer cutlery for his kitchen.......................  I actually could not believe he was serious, but he was.   I pick it up ASAP.

This will be, I suppose, a fairly unique build thread as I will simultaneously be learning about the piloting of this contraption and getting my certification from Team Oregon later in the summer.  I have some experience riding in the dirt as well as some experience gliding in the dirt (as in across it) and know, to some extent that the human flesh and bone just fail at inertial dampening when speeds approach true weightlessness.  SO...  This will be a serious venture.  I do have an instinct that forces me to check side mirrors when turning and intersections when crossing so I have that going for me but going against me is an abysmal driving record that consists of many  speeding tickets, so that is something I will definitely need to work on.....      

I was also an avid cyclist in the city so I do have many memories of just how completely stupid people can be, some seem to feel you are fully capable of manipulating the space/time continuum to allow a passage right through the middle of their goddamn vehicle, while looking you right in the eye.  It is UNBELIEVABLE!  It is WAR on the tarmac (or at least defensive positions!)!!!!

But anyhow, about my build:

I am a guitar and effect builder by trade, and got the contraption you see in my avatar in trade for a yet to be built amplifier, to be completed before the end of February.  It hasn't run "in a while"; due to "electrical issues", and the front brake is locked.  A friend of a friend got it for free from a woman whose husband bailed, and left the bike.  She gave it to my buddy's friend for free (let's try not to speculate on THAT whole relationship dynamic), he gave it to my buddy in trade for two amps, and he traded it to me for one amp!!!!  What a steal eh!?!  haha....  Here are more photos:















SO, as you can see it is a CB550F in decent condition.  I am beside myself with joy and mojo.  

Initial question:  What should I do when I get it?  Try and figure out the electrical and get the engine at least moderately functional (for reference, IE, to know that it runs) or just take the thing apart?  

[Greggo]

From what I've read echoed by other posters, it's much better to get it running before a tear down just to know that it runs before you take the time to put it back together...Also hear you should clean it before the tear down, too.

[ZoomyZen]

From what I've read echoed by other posters, it's much better to get it running before a tear down just to know that it runs before you take the time to put it back together...Also hear you should clean it before the tear down, too.

Cool.   That definitely makes sense.

[Greggo]

Also, if you search for 'stuck caliper', you will find many tips for freeing it.  If I remember correctly, this is also easier to fix if it's still on the bike.

It sounds like you have an appreciation for proper riding gear, so I'd say you're miles ahead of many when it comes to staying safe.  I'm a new(ish) rider myself, and I don't hop on the bike for a ride without full gear.  Your cycling reflexes will be a big help too.  Though I'm starting to think Cagers have less respect for motorcycles than bicycles.  They at least give you more space on the bicycle...

[Syscrush]

Cool bike, you're going to have a lot of fun with this project.

I was also an avid cyclist in the city so I do have many memories of just how completely stupid people can be, some seem to feel you are fully capable of manipulating the space/time continuum to allow a passage right through the middle of their goddamn vehicle, while looking you right in the eye.  It is UNBELIEVABLE!  It is WAR on the tarmac (or at least defensive positions!)!!!!

I'm an inner-city cyclist and motorcyclist, too, and I hear this idea/attitude a lot from my fellow two-wheelers.

I have to say, though - I really don't think that it's that bad.  We ALL make mistakes and usually it's just that - a mistake.  You know there's been a time when you cut someone off, or squealed your tires because you misjudged something and then had to slam on the brakes or whatever.  And you feel bad about it and remind yourself to pay more attention next time.  Just assume that when someone else makes a mistake that they feel the same way.

What I repeat to myself when someone else causes a near-miss is "no harm, no foul".  It helps me calm down and stay focused on the task at hand - which is getting where I'm going safely.

[wardenerd]

My 550F was much worse and thats the kind of mechanic I am...much worse. Electrical may mean something as simple as unplugged or coroded.  I cleaned all my connections and ran new wire or shrink wrapped the bare spots.  Got it started and have been riding and fixing for 18 months.  These are great bikes and nimble too.  The carbs are beyond my expertise although I tried twice.  Ended up at a shop for rebuild.  money well spent.  How is the tank?  put a filter inline just to be safr.  mine waqs clean but kept shedding stuff that looked like corn.  very bad for needles and seats.

[ZoomyZen]

I have to say, though - I really don't think that it's that bad.  We ALL make mistakes and usually it's just that - a mistake.  You know there's been a time when you cut someone off, or squealed your tires because you misjudged something and then had to slam on the brakes or whatever.  And you feel bad about it and remind yourself to pay more attention next time.  Just assume that when someone else makes a mistake that they feel the same way.

What I repeat to myself when someone else causes a near-miss is "no harm, no foul".  It helps me calm down and stay focused on the task at hand - which is getting where I'm going safely.

Indeed.   Point taken!  Thanks for the comment!

[ZoomyZen]

My 550F was much worse and thats the kind of mechanic I am...much worse. Electrical may mean something as simple as unplugged or coroded.  I cleaned all my connections and ran new wire or shrink wrapped the bare spots.  Got it started and have been riding and fixing for 18 months.  These are great bikes and nimble too.  The carbs are beyond my expertise although I tried twice.  Ended up at a shop for rebuild.  money well spent.  How is the tank?  put a filter inline just to be safr.  mine waqs clean but kept shedding stuff that looked like corn.  very bad for needles and seats.

Thank you for the encouragement! 

I have not see the bike closely yet.  I'm going to a ball game tomorrow, and will try to pick it up Sunday.  Is there a particular compound I can buy to rinse the tank out?

How severe is the danger that the carbs will be gummed up with... just crap (I assume that would depend on whether or not everything was drained, I do not think this was the case though)?   I think the plate said it was last registered in 06.  I would estimate the lowest temp it has seen would be about 20 degrees.... To the best of my knowledge It has been in a garage since it last ran and sits in one right now.

[Greggo]

I have not see the bike closely yet.  I'm going to a ball game tomorrow, and will try to pick it up Sunday.  Is there a particular compound I can buy to rinse the tank out?

How severe is the danger that the carbs will be gummed up with... just crap (I assume that would depend on whether or not everything was drained, I do not think this was the case though)?   I think the plate said it was last registered in 06.  I would estimate the lowest temp it has seen would be about 20 degrees.... To the best of my knowledge It has been in a garage since it last ran and sits in one right now.

If I owned a farm, I'd bet it on those carbs needing a good cleaning, if not a rebuilding, and at the very least a synching for the bike to run well.  Do you know when it ran last?? 

[ZoomyZen]

I have not see the bike closely yet.  I'm going to a ball game tomorrow, and will try to pick it up Sunday.  Is there a particular compound I can buy to rinse the tank out?

How severe is the danger that the carbs will be gummed up with... just crap (I assume that would depend on whether or not everything was drained, I do not think this was the case though)?   I think the plate said it was last registered in 06.  I would estimate the lowest temp it has seen would be about 20 degrees.... To the best of my knowledge It has been in a garage since it last ran and sits in one right now.

If I owned a farm, I'd bet it on those carbs needing a good cleaning, if not a rebuilding, and at the very least a synching for the bike to run well.  Do you know when it ran last?? 

No, I don't.  But I can find out.  My situation is such that running "well" isn't really of great concern, I am in no hurry to get on the road.  I am, however, in a hurry the start on a build that will see every part dissembled down to the last bearing.  My intention is to have an end result that will see me with a bike that is essentially new...  I will probably take a welding class at the local Community College in the near future, and will buy a welder so I can do some modifications to the seat area and anything else I determine to be required (hehe)...  That kind of thing.  Plus it's a skill I desire to have as I'm into boats as well.   

Considering this, would it truly be necessary for me to get it running before I start the tea-rdown?  The engine will be completely rebuilt, as well as the transmission, suspension and electronics. 

[OneWheelDrive]

I'm a cyclist as well and it definitely gives us a leg up on our scanning abilities and defensive skills.  I'm only about a month ahead of you or so and the knowledge that you can't help but gain will probably surprise you.

The carbs should definitely be your first date with your new girl.  There's no way the carbs are clean after 4 years of sitting, the jets can get plugged after several weeks with bad gas.  

There are obviously mixed reviews about carbs being easy or difficult to work on, but as long as you do one at a time (and leave at least one carb intact as a rebuild example) you really can't get into any trouble.  Before you start, buy a rebuild kit that includes gaskets and o-rings, I promise you'll rip and/or break some as you take the set apart.  

Take your time upon disassembly so as not to damage any of the soft brass parts.  Buy a gallon of carb cleaner or Simple Green at home depot and make a 50/50 solution to soak the parts in.  Don't soak any rubber parts you want to salvage in the cleaner.  The great thing about those genius Japanese engineers is they designed much of these bikes so you can't put parts in the wrong spot.  Every piece has it's own place.

While the parts from the first set are soaking, start working on the second set.  Keep organized with muffin trays (not my wife's favorite) or something similar.   Before reassembly, make sure all the jets are clear of debris by blowing compressed air through the pathways.  Those cans of air for cleaning your computer are cheap and work well if you don't have a compressor.  The pathways really are the most important component of the cleaning process.  They can look clean as a whistle on the surface, but a clogged jet will leave you scratching your head when trying to run the bike.

Adjust your float level carefully to spec and put it all back together with your new gaskets.  Spray a bit of WD40 on the inside of the bowls to protect your hard work in the event they end up sitting on the bench for another month or so.

Bench sync the set to ensure that the linkage is engaging each carb evenly.  A vacuum sync will probably be a good move after you reassemble the bike.

Good luck with the bike!  

[ZoomyZen]

I'm a cyclist as well...

...Good luck with the bike!  

Thank you for the great information!  These will serve to be a great reference points/steps for when I begin to learn how the carbs function!!!

By the way, a very interesting point about the methodology of the Japanese engineers!  That truly shows that they went for quality in build not quantity in product for doing things the way you stated requires individual parts for all areas of function!  Very cool!

[wardenerd]

I did not know they played football in Oregon.  oh yeah all those California players coming north.  Will make a friendly wager that Auburn kicks butt in the BCS game.  I am a big Alabama fan but SEC all the way.  We both ride 550's can't be too bad.

[Stev-o]

I would say a good cleaning is the first order of business when you get it home. Gunk Foamy Engine Cleaner works great, get two cans at your local auto parts store.

Why are you planning to rebuild the motor already? These motors can run 30,000+ miles without a rebuild, even more with proper maint.

[ZoomyZen]

SO!!!  I FINALLY got it!  It was about 40 miles over, I was too busy to get it until now!  It's been storming like hell so it got a decent bath on the way home, but tomorrow I'm taking it to the car wash where it will get a good hosing.  Then, back home, unloaded and I start the festivities!!





It came equipped with a nice little rack!



I talked to my buddy and his wife (who are very experienced in all things motorcycle, she is an MMI bike mechanic) and seeing as the electronics are screwed and I plan to rebuild it anyways the consensus was this: It would be pretty pointless to sort the electronics out, along with any problems with the engine that might turn up in an attempt to to get the engine started, only to turn right around and tear it down..  At some point I will take the engine out whole set it aside and start to break the rest of the bike apart to learn how it's constructed and to begin a formulation of what exactly I plan to do with it!  I'm very excited!

[FunJimmy]

Great score and welcome to the group.

These 550’s are quite simple machines and I’m sure you’ll get along just fine pulling it apart and working your way bto the bike of your dreams.
Locating the electrical issues and repairing them will likely happen through the natural process of reassembling the bike as you complete your build.

Now I’d be really impressed if you scored on the chick that passed the bike on to your buddy too. 

Cheers
FJ

[ZoomyZen]

I did not know they played football in Oregon.  oh yeah all those California players coming north.  Will make a friendly wager that Auburn kicks butt in the BCS game.  I am a big Alabama fan but SEC all the way.  We both ride 550's can't be too bad.

I didn't see your post!  Little late to comment on the games eh!?!

[ZoomyZen]

Great score and welcome to the group.

These 550’s are quite simple machines and I’m sure you’ll get along just fine pulling it apart and working your way bto the bike of your dreams.
Locating the electrical issues and repairing them will likely happen through the natural process of reassembling the bike as you complete your build.

Now I’d be really impressed if you scored on the chick that passed the bike on to your buddy too. 

Cheers
FJ

I might have to look into that...  And the ideas are rolling in haha...

[TwoTired]

Before you do ANY work on it either get a clear title or verify that you will get one for certain.

You do NOT need to completely rebuild the engine.  That's a waste of time and money and invites more problems with breakage, stripped bolts, nuts etc.  It probably only looks bad on the outside and is fine inside.  And if the engine IS bad, yo cna get another used one far cheaper than you can rebuild the one you have.

But, if you really want a money pit or parts bike, go ahead and dismantle it. 

It takes very little electrical to make it run.  Two wires actually, and a fully charged battery.

I doubt your gas tank is any good, I can see it is rusting through at the bottom.  Probably that rust went into the carbs.  So, if you must dismantle something start with the carbs.

It makes perfect sense to have it running before going any further.  They are pretty stout engines built by the factory.  Lots of home mechs don't have near the factory expertise/prowess.

Cheers,

[ZoomyZen]

There does appear to be some rust in this photo.  I will examine this closely tomorrow along with taking more detailed photos.

I went out and felt around a bit.  There is no distortion anywhere on the bottom of the tank (relatively flat) that I could determine, while what appears to be rust seems to be confines around a lip that was formed when the sides were joined to the bottom.  This lip appears to have accumulated some rust, it doesn't feel like it has continued into the tank but certainly appears to have done just that in the photo.

[fastbroshi]

   The electrical could be easier than you think.  Get yourself a wiring diagram and compare to what you've got to identify the problem areas, then clean all the connectors and make sure they have a good sturdy connection, likewise for the fuse block.   The only real PITA is if someone ever hooked up the battery cables backwards (or did this while trying to jump start it from a CAT bulldozer, oh no definitely not my bike  ), which can fry a LOT of the harness real quick.  If you check the main ground connections and they look good, you should be in the clear on that note.  If not, get a new harness. 

  Given what they have highlighted on that diagram, it's probably a problem with the starter switch circuits.  You can always work around that to test the starter and check the mechanicals anyway.  Good luck with it all man and we're here if you have any questions.

[TwoTired]

There does appear to be some rust in this photo.  I will examine this closely tomorrow along with taking more detailed photos.

I went out and felt around a bit.  There is no distortion anywhere on the bottom of the tank (relatively flat) that I could determine, while what appears to be rust seems to be confines around a lip that was formed when the sides were joined to the bottom.  This lip appears to have accumulated some rust, it doesn't feel like it has continued into the tank but certainly appears to have done just that in the photo.

That picture shows the tank is rusting from the inside out.  Those are the low points in the tanks where water collects at the bottom.  Water + iron (int the steel) + oxygen = rust conversion.
I have an orange tank, like your blue one, out in the shed that has rusted through in the same way as yours, base pan fine, leaking out the sides near the seems.
I can see that it was already solder patched.  A little vibration and that tank will weep some more.  Plan for it now or be surprised latter.  Did you look inside the tank for rust?

Cheers,

[ZoomyZen]

Damned rain!!!

The detailed examination will have to wait until tomorrow.  I got stuck in my field trying unload the thing (it's kinda heavy!!!)  and have to wait until a buddy can come by tomorrow to lend a hand....and pull my truck out of the mud.  I got stuck driving backwards, up a hill......

In other news, there is definitely solder on the tank.  That is a little disappointing.  I can't open it up because I forgot the key........    I'll probably get it when my friend can find the time to detach himself from this sledding contraption he straps to his feet...

[Greggo]

If it's like 90% of the gas tank 'locks' on these bikes, any similar sized key will work. 

[TwoTired]

If it's like 90% of the gas tank 'locks' on these bikes, any similar sized key will work. 

It is.  There aren't any tumblers for the key slot.  A screwdriver will turn it.

[ZoomyZen]

We know the tank has had rust issues in the past.  It has been soldered.  The tank is also chipped and I think has a few VERY small, minor dents.  
What is the consequence of this?  Before the bike is finished, of course it will have new paint including the tank.  

Should I be considering options for a replacement tank?  
Would anyone mind proving quality links for aftermarket tanks?
Would this be a rational reaction or is it fairly easy to repair rusted tanks to the point of looking virtually new after repair, smoothing and paint?

[TwoTired]

Should I be considering options for a replacement tank?

Yes.

I have a perfectly un-dented Cb550F tank that just needs paint to look good.  The internal rust through, just like what your pictures show, prevent it's use.  All the patch jobs last just until the thinned metal rusts through nearby.

For a permanent repair of the tank, a band of metal about an inch wide would have to brazed on all around the bottom of the tank.
The tank would need to be de-rusted inside, preferably via electrolysis, then treated with a phosphoric acid metal etch, and then internally coated with something like Kreem or POR15, (after any external dents were addressed).

Then it would need external painting before put into use, and it should be good for the next 20 or more years.

You can probably pick up a serviceable tank for the F model for about $100 or less.  (I did)

Cheers,

[ZoomyZen]

Ok.  Thanks!

[ZoomyZen]

NO TITLE!!!!!

[Spikeybike]

....well .... you can apply for a lost/salvaged title ... depending on what state you live in , it's about 100-150 bucks

[ZoomyZen]

The tank is completely rusted out.  The retainer chain is completely covered with rust, the surface inside the tank is bumpy underneath the some blackish looking paint and does not appear to be intentional.  So I'm in the market for a tank and a title so far.  

I like the concept of the gas cap cover, it's pretty clean.

[ZoomyZen]

....well .... you can apply for a lost/salvaged title ... depending on what state you live in , it's about 100-150 bucks

I really am not comfortable with the notion of this guy taking back the bike back just to be a dick.......  In the OP I alluded a certain relationship dynamic consisting of two males and a female:  One male bailed on the female, the other male got a free motorcycle shortly there-after.  What I'm going to try to do is find out who this guy is and then hope he leaves the continent at which point I will apply for the title..  

So, in other news:  I was stuck in my field for two days with the bike in the back, I finally got the truck out with a strategic placement of cardboard and gravel and more cardboard and gravel..  The ruts I left behind... It's unbelievable that I was able to get a two wheel drive Tacoma out of a mess that deep and soupy but I did.  Took me two days..   After that triumph I called my buddy who came over and helped me unload it.  We stood over the bike for two hours in 30 degree weather just talking (mainly him talking) about all kinds of #$%*... I got a ton of info!!  Later, I was so excited I went out to tinker with it and proceed to rip the lock right out of the gas tank with my handy emergency screwdriver-key...................  Oh well it's toast anyways but still.  At that point I realized the tank wasn't even affixed to the frame, it just fell off onto my foot and I quickly realized I was lucky to get home without slinging it through some poor bastard's windshield..

So, now I need to decide if I want to continue sitting on it making *vroom vroom* noises or actually get to work!!!

Of course, title comes first so...  As soon as the DMV people aren't pissy and hung-over from New Years, just the normal pissy, I'll head down and hope this guy didn't leave his wife jealous of a better biker.......

[ZoomyZen]

   The electrical could be easier than you think.  Get yourself a wiring diagram and compare to what you've got to identify the problem areas, then clean all the connectors and make sure they have a good sturdy connection, likewise for the fuse block.   The only real PITA is if someone ever hooked up the battery cables backwards (or did this while trying to jump start it from a CAT bulldozer, oh no definitely not my bike  ), which can fry a LOT of the harness real quick.  If you check the main ground connections and they look good, you should be in the clear on that note.  If not, get a new harness. 

  Given what they have highlighted on that diagram, it's probably a problem with the starter switch circuits.  You can always work around that to test the starter and check the mechanicals anyway.  Good luck with it all man and we're here if you have any questions.

Much appreciated!

[ZoomyZen]

SO!  I burrowed a corner into my garage where I moved the bike to get it out of the weather.  Dave (my buddy) advised that this would be the better option, I would be be well off to make a serious effort to find a home for it that would less humid than a tarp.  I figured, just get it out from under the rain, he made the point that the moisture will just accelerate the rust:  Indeed.  

This title situation SUCKS...  Now that it's in a warm spot I'm not entirely confidant I can keep myself from tearing it down before the DMV tracks down the title holder.  I figure, why can't I just play dumb and claim I started the tear-down before knowing the proper course of action for a title recovery?  If you really want the bike, you're free to come pick up the boxes....

[Spikeybike]

did you get a bill of sale?   if so .. then it's yours to with what you wish ..you just need the title to get plates and such

i'm not sure how it works in the great big up north , but down here .. they can't take it from you unless it's reported stolen

[ZoomyZen]

did you get a bill of sale?   if so .. then it's yours to with what you wish ..you just need the title to get plates and such

i'm not sure how it works in the great big up north , but down here .. they can't take it from you unless it's reported stolen

The *sale* in complicated.  I'm building an amp for the guy, he is currently summing up the total cost for the components needed for the amp parts that will be my responsibility to purchase.  He knows that if he comes back with a sum that I feel is more than what would be a fair price for the bike (with labor factored in) I will reject it... He is a freind we are on very good terms.  He is rational.  So any sale that we could write up really hasn't taken place yet.

I was told by Dave that what I previously described was the process the last time he had to deal or participate in a title recovery.  If there are any people reading that have recently dealt with a title recovery in Oregon I would greatly appreciate some input.

[Greggo]

did you get a bill of sale?   if so .. then it's yours to with what you wish ..you just need the title to get plates and such

i'm not sure how it works in the great big up north , but down here .. they can't take it from you unless it's reported stolen

The *sale* in complicated.  I'm building an amp for the guy, he is currently summing up the total cost for the components needed for the amp parts that will be my responsibility to purchase.  He knows that if he comes back with a sum that I feel is more than what would be a fair price for the bike (with labor factored in) I will reject it... He is a freind we are on very good terms.  He is rational.  So any sale that we could write up really hasn't taken place yet.

I was told by Dave that what I previously described was the process the last time he had to deal or participate in a title recovery.  If there are any people reading that have recently dealt with a title recovery in Oregon I would greatly appreciate some input.

Dude, IMHO, don't work on that bike until it's yours.  You could end up putting a hundred hours into it, only for this guy to say he wants it back.  You doing work on it only raises the value of the bike, making it more tempting for him to take back.  You say there's a chick involved here somehow...it just sounds like you could end up getting burned.  

How much do you expect to 'pay' for this bike if everything did work out all peachy??  It's just my opinion, but be careful, and maybe look for another bike...Have you checked that this bike isn't stolen?

Gregg

[TwoTired]

This title situation SUCKS...  Now that it's in a warm spot I'm not entirely confidant I can keep myself from tearing it down before the DMV tracks down the title holder.  I figure, why can't I just play dumb and claim I started the tear-down before knowing the proper course of action for a title recovery?  If you really want the bike, you're free to come pick up the boxes....

You can play dumb on receipt of stolen goods.  Maybe get away with it without charges, and just loose the bike.
If they find a stolen bike on your premises, and it has been distributed into boxes for possible sale, you look like a chop shop trying to profit on someone else's loss, or vandalizing someone else's property.
There are laws against such activity for a reason.  Be prepared for court costs.

My advise is let it sit until you have proof it is actually yours to decide it's fate.

So far, it is not in any way a "good deal".  IMO

[ZoomyZen]

Points well taken, but there are some other social factors that change the dynamic quite a bit.  I personally know all parties involved with the exception of the chick and the dude that left t he bike......  With that said, for the bike to have been stolen, the thief would have to be one of the two individuals I know and that is not possible: They are both Professionals in their 30s.  I assure you the bike is not stolen.  

The relationship dynamic between the Party A and the woman who gave him the bike, I doubt is anything illicit as Party A is married with children and a very responsible individual. I threw in the line about speculation pertaining to relationship dynamic mainly for entertainment purposes. At the time, I thought the title was with the bike.

Party B is a close personal freind of mine.  He understands the situation with the bike.  I have informed him that I certainly have to intention of starting work on the amp until I have a title in hand.  He also understands that he really is the one who stands to get burned as he actually built two amps for the bike without checking into the title issue.  

Due to the advice on this thread, I have decided that I will not start work on the bike until I have the title.  Court costs are a #$%*.