Author Topic: Jakal cb550 project  (Read 22461 times)

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Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #250 on: November 30, 2020, 11:08:41 am »
So my budget for the motorcycles is second to the budget for the daily driver.

I dropped some coin on premium hub assemblies for the subaru (made in Japan). Did the front this weekend and hope to do the rear soon. Made a version of the hub blaster to try on the rears. Managed to chisel out the fronts, but the park brake in the rear makes it more difficult (I like to remove as little as possible to get the job done).

I'll post update when it's done, dj

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #251 on: December 05, 2020, 03:05:55 pm »
Well if there is going to be a pandemic hopefully the weather will be nice. Double digit (metric) temps makes working in the seacan bearable, so I am working on the covid roller engine project.

I finally split the cases as I really wanted to know what I was dealing with before I went any further (spend any more money).

As per the OP's modus operandi, the sneaky "inside the sump area" case bolt was missing, as were the two "fork guide pins" (number 16 in the photo below), so now I am looking for these guide pins and I hope they are not like finding hens teeth.

But, good news is that everything inside looks pretty good. Main bearing shells have little obvious wear and the crankshaft looks good. Ends off the shift forks look almost new.

Reading up on how to proceed. I have another set of cases that also have main bearings (this engine is stamped ABAAA, while the roller cases are stamped CCCBB and I'm not sure how relevant these numbers are). My plan is to use the shells that came with the newer cases and plastigauge them to see where I am at.

Cheers, dj
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 08:01:56 am by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #252 on: December 08, 2020, 05:04:22 pm »
More documentation #$%* happening.

Ground down a cheap socket to take apart the connecting rods and just got them all broken as the socket failed.

Inspected the rods and found the letter D printed on all of them (weight) and the number 2 etched (scratched) onto each one.

Used the micrometer to measure each rod journal. Looking at the manual it gives a range for two letter classifications (A or B). I mic'ed every one too pretty much 34.99+ to 35.00mm and then reset the mic to 34.98 and tried them all again to rule out Class B.

So going by the manual Class A with Number 2 Rod Code means Green bearing shells, and what do I find but 4 pretty much new green shells.

So not bad. Need to get a closer look at the main journal bearings and see what i have. I better donate something to this site as I have all my documentation here as well as using the manual. Thanks you very much.

Cheers, dj

Topic: cb550 cases/ cb650 crank bearing selection-- help please!!!

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=32228.0

I’m reading Mark’s comments to Paul in this thread and I have to covert imperial to metric and my mind starts to hurt. I use imperial for mid lengths, say fractional inch (even decimal inch) to about 1/16 and then metric makes more sense to me. Same as going big. I like kilometres over miles etc. Later, dj
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 03:17:00 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #253 on: December 10, 2020, 07:51:31 am »
Topic: Cleaning crankshafts under the balls

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=146287.0

Something I have been wondering about.

dj

(I blew out all the oil passages on the crankshaft with compressed air and they are spotless. Measurement of the roller crank puts it spot on spec)

Topic: The life of a primary chain...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58851.0.html

Topic: Cb550 primary chain damage!!

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,113772.0.html (be nice if these pictures could be restored)

Took some pics of crank inspection. V blocks and dial gauge. Practically no runout. Checked both sides of the oil holes.

Mic'ed the main journals and all pretty much at 33mm.

That's it, dj

Main clearance from 0.01 to 0.05 mm (from discussion on the forum)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 03:16:20 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #254 on: December 12, 2020, 07:36:35 pm »
Had time to get out to the seacan and grab the bearing shells out of the roller case halves. Sort of like forensic autopsy sometimes. Just what went on with this thing anyway.

Ok so the main bearings are new enough to still see the bearing colour and I have three greens and two browns. The cases are stamped CCCBB and using the manual I would have used Brown, Brown, Brown, Green, Green, but the OP had Green, Green, Green, Brown Brown.

I wonder if they thought the C was a G and used Green for C and Brown for B. I will never know, but I have 3 green and 2 brown almost new main bearing shells.

This then made me take a closer look at the bearing shells in the newer case I picked up. They are ABAAA and I would like it to go (with the crank I have) Yellow, Green, Yellow, Yellow, Yellow. Well after a very close look I can clearly see that #2 is Green (as I hoped), but I cannot make out what colour the rest are. Hopefully the rest are Yellow (or Green from what I have read) and it will work out perfect.

Next step is to get some plastigauge and I torque wrench for this range of torque value.

Later, dj

Topic: Refinishing Original Bolts (Vinegar, Wire Wheel, and ????)

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,157322.0.html

Topic: Engine Build Advice - Sealant, Thread Locker, and Anti-seize

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,117474.0.html

Topic: putting back together crankcase (sealant location)

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=160977.0

How To Break In Your Engine For More Power & Less Wear !

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Topic: New pistons, rings, and fresh bores ... what to lube?!

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=118921.0

Topic: Notes about the plain bearing bottom ends.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=69907.0

Topic: Let's talk torque wrenchs

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=154958.0
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 05:15:39 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #255 on: December 17, 2020, 03:38:32 pm »
I didn't think I was going to, but I bored the the worst hole in the cylinder jug just to see if it was possible with what I have.

I took my sweet time setting it up and making super thin cuts with the wimpy boring bar I have. When I got to 58.70mm (my plan was to leave .3mm for honing and I now see that maybe I should leave more - any one?) I could still see the rust and decided to go to 59.20mm for a 1 mm overbore of 59.50mm leaving 0.3mm for honing.

Now it looks good, and it is pretty dam consistent considering what I'm working with. I can do the others at my leisure and once I have the pistons (and fix the stiffening quill, the auto quill feed was starting to have issues).

I will set up each hole individually as trying to get the entire head supported and getting it all level is just too much. I used the dial indicator to get the sleeve very level (with shims even though the machine is trammed tight) and then clocked the hole to find centre.

I have to say I really wish I could find some metric numbers for boring and honing the 550 (but the dam boring head is of course imperial).

Is 0.3mm enough for a hone?

Finally I made a thread chaser out of some brass I had kicking around.

Later, dj
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 04:26:36 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline 754

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #256 on: December 17, 2020, 04:58:42 pm »
Where did you get that boring head ?
 Do you realize what that is ? It's a feeder ..lucky you..

.3 mm sounds  like  around 12 thou. .. 4 thou should do .   12 thou they gonna start charging lots.. more time.
 How did it bore , nice, smooth, 10 thou at a time ?
 Good job that you gave it a try and it works...... so how deep was the rust.?
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #257 on: December 17, 2020, 06:24:59 pm »
Hey Frank, yea it’s a pretty cool boring head, I’ve been getting up to speed on it with the feeder system and all that. Just one of the forgotten tools in this shop that I get to find and then learn how to use.

I played around with the speeds and feeds and I was making cuts in the 0.002 to 0.003 inch range (really half that as the bore head is radius and I’m doubling the number to diameter). Varying the speed on the thicker cuts keep the vibrations down, but I just took my time and it cut fine.

Ok so, .004 inch is about 0.1mm. I may bore it again once I get the pistons to match the size, but I hope to hone it myself so maybe it takes longer but maybe safer (hard to put back stuff you mill off, yea).

The rust was still present at 59+ mm so I went to 59.2 mm thinking to hone the rest (I was getting tired of translating from inch to metric and back to inch to move the bore head, so when the auto feed started acting up I finished at 59.20 mm. That’s probably too close to go with 59.25 pistons, you think? About 0.002 inch. If I find some inexpensive 650 (59.8mm I believe) I would rebore closer.

Anyway, I will continue to make what I can out of this jug and go from there.

Thanks for you questions and interest, Darren

Are there any clear answers to this stuff, ha?

Topic: Piston to final honed cylinder clearance

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=19681.0
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 03:08:11 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #258 on: December 22, 2020, 10:24:05 am »
Big snowstorm, so doing some inspection work in the house today.

Decided to look at the primary drive unit and check the state of the cush rubbers. As expected they are hard as rock. Can these be rehabilitated OK or are new ones essential?

Found some at David Silver for about $8.00 CDN each, so about $64.00 for a set of 8 before shipping (looks like they are coming from the UK). I'll look for something more local.

As per the PO it looks like he was in there and then put the snap ring back on upside down. Going to go over this engine very closely to make sure it is done right.

Later, dj

Part#: 23114-323-000 Cush drive rubber

https://www.giatlahuep.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=745865

Part#: 23131-426-003  Primary Chain

HONDA CB550 74-81 FORSETI CAM CHAIN 219H-88L

https://www.giatlahuep.com/honda-cb550-7481-forseti-cam-chain-219h88l-camshaft-timing-p-745822.htm

Part#: 14401-323-003 Cam Chain

Topic: where to get a NEW primary chain for 1977 cb550

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137101.0

Topic: How many of you actually replace the primary drive cush rubbers?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=156547.0

Squish quench Squish Band & Deck Height Calculator

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/squishcalc1.html

Topic: Quench Band / opening combustion chambers for 65mm bore question ?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147084.0.html

Quench Squish

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=86584

Topic: Thicker Head Gasket CB550 Math

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=180763.0
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 03:54:31 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #259 on: January 03, 2021, 01:49:14 pm »
I've blown my budget on some parts that I hope to arrive soon. In the meantime I've looked into best practices for rebuilding a 550 and have come to the conclusion (based on what I've found here) that it makes most sense to reassemble the engine into the top half and then place the bottom half onto it. There are many many reasons why this way is better and I will get to them later.

I've made my engine stand so that I may adapt it to hold split cases, but I've only made a system (as of now) to hold the bottom half of a split case. So I'm looking at ways to make a stand that holds the top half and I have decided to make a simple stand based on what I've found works perfect for holding the top case half and that is an old milk crate.

Not sure where else uses these, but the are pretty handy for holding the top half with the head studs still in place. Just arrange it diagonally with the last two studs outside the crate. There is a sweet spot where the barrel mating surface sits flush on the rim and where two points on the rear also sit flush. I will attach the crate to some plywood and tie the engine down to it. I plan to make the base wide enough to also stand on with the engine directly below me on the ground. I hope this will allow me to easily pull the cases apart when I do the plastiguage. I found getting the cases apart easily is actually pretty difficult. The case guide pins can get cockeyed and jam. I want to be able to lift it straight up without rotating the crank and messing the plastiguage in the process. I'll experiment and find out what works best.

Cheers, dj

Oh and a picture showing why I am doing this at all (the blue #$%* oozing everywhere).

Wow I didn’t mean to do that. But why not here’s a video of someone doing the bottom end of a 550. I should find his name to give him credit.

Ok videos by John Keough





« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 12:52:15 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #260 on: January 05, 2021, 12:54:40 pm »
Took time to drop the quill and get the auto feed working better.

Learn something new every day!

Cheers, dj
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 12:57:27 pm by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #261 on: January 06, 2021, 03:19:54 pm »
Well, what I spent my budget on came today!

78 cb550 head with pinned rocker shafts. Don’t think they are making any more of these so I jumped on this.

Local parts guy has a pinned head but of course it is in 25 pieces and I would have to buy each piece to put it together for twice what this complete one cost.

Cheers, dj

59.5 pistons

https://www.cruzinimage.net/2017/08/17/74-78-honda-cb550k-1-0mm-oversize-pistons-set/

Topic: Anyone tried the $120 CB550 big bore kit yet?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,112346.0.html

Topic: MLS Head Gasket and O-Rings

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=161988.0

CB500/550 1971-78  &  CB650 79-82 Dynoman head gaskets

http://www.dynoman.net/engine/gaskets-cometic.html

From Hondaman:

Just one addition: all modern head gaskets are thicker than the OEM gasket upon with the 2.5 mm thickness was established. The modern gaskets are 1.0mm thick (some are even more) where the OEM version was 0.8mm thick, and you need to use an O-ring that is THICKER BY THAT AMOUNT. I use the Parker #01-111 that is listed as 2.62x10.77mm size, but is usually thicker than that, to seal the oil passages between the cylinders and head, AFTER having the cylinder top surface decked 0.010" during boring (which also ensures it is flat) - the head gets decked up to that amount, also.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 09:33:43 am by Darren Jakal »

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #262 on: January 10, 2021, 02:31:32 pm »
Checked out the "new" head, and it all looks good.

Finished the simplest engine stand I could. I'll use this this to plastigauge the crankshaft (it has a foot board to stand on so I can hold the top half down with my feet as I lift the bottom half off, hopefully keeping the crankshaft from rotating) and use it when I re-assemble the case halves.

Once the cases are back together I'll put it back on the "real" engine stand and finish assembling it there.

Later, dj

Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #263 on: January 10, 2021, 06:10:13 pm »
As usual Darren..very clear pics and good details.  Seems just like being inside the engine..when working on it (although I haven't been into my 550 for years) LOL  Those videos in particular are a gold mine for any members here wanting to know what a tear down and re-build of a 550 involves..I think. Very informative.  Thanks.
Al/Ichi

« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 06:12:24 pm by Ichiban 4 »
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

Offline Darren Jakal

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Re: Jakal cb550 project
« Reply #264 on: January 10, 2021, 06:45:08 pm »
Hey Al, thanks for your comments. I really want to make sure that everyone knows that I DID NOT make the videos, and that they were made by someone named John Keough.

But I am trying to make my build thread as useful to others as it has been for me. Try to give something back once in a while, Right? cheers Darren

Primary Chain Kawasaki chains 92057-1011 (from Little_Phil) for  € 46.50

https://www.cmsnl.com/products/chain-drive_920571011/#.X_9oNhZ7laQ

versus CB 550 part #: 23131-323-003 for € 107.00

https://www.cmsnl.com/products/chain_23131323003/#.X_9puBZ7laQ

From OldBikeBarn

High quality 50 link replacement primary chain for Honda 79-82 CB650 models. Just as good as OEM. Replaces OEM#92057-1011, 23131-426-003 & 23131-323-003.


From PartsNMore:

Primary Chain
#73-0162 | Honda CB550K (1974-1978)
OEM Quality Primary Chain, 50 Link. Replaces OEM # 92057-1011 / 23131-426-003 / 23131-323-003

https://www.partsnmore.com/parts/honda/cb550k/?q=23131-323-003

https://www.cmsnl.com/kawasaki-1984-b1-zr400_model12706/chain-63-139x50l_920571011/#.YADlGS0iehB

Topic: Primary Chain + F1 forks

http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=9475.0

Cam Chain

https://4into1.com/ek-cam-chain-219h-x-88l-14401-362-003-honda-xl175-cb500-cb550/

Topic: 550k3 airbox to carb rubbers

http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,24463.0.html

Topic: Source for thicker 550 head oil o-rings?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185657.0.html

Topic: FFJMOORE CB550 BIG bore engine build

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=85698.0

Topic: Piston to wall clearance stock CB750?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,68776.msg780524.html#msg780524
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 09:23:05 am by Darren Jakal »