Author Topic: what is a good carb sync?  (Read 9311 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline xsmooth69x

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,621
what is a good carb sync?
« on: May 24, 2011, 01:31:23 AM »
there are 3 styles out there

vacuum - emgo makes them
liquid kind - pro motion
metal rods - morgan carbtune

is there any pro and cons of these? or is it just personal preference?
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,011
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2011, 01:58:44 AM »
personal preference.

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,121
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2011, 03:48:58 AM »
I share a set of 4 clocks with another friend/motorists. Unless you have more bikes, cost of buying is hardly justified. That's why we shared and soon an owner of 2 350's will use them too. My experience is: once set you don't have to sync for a long time, very long indeed. As a matter of fact when you think they're out of sync, I would advise you to look for another cause. In my experience the carbs stay synced almost forever. Honda did a good job on this, after learning lessons with the 4-cable operated carbs on the early 750 models. Last time I used the set is some 15 years ago. On a few occasions I had the carbs on the kitchen tabel (for experiments with the needles) and decided to see how accurate I could sync by hand, using a small allen key for testsliding under the little cutaway section in the front side of the slides. I adjusted, testslided, adjusted, testslided etc. Then I drank a cup of coffee and repeated it, eyes closed for maximum touch. After mounting the carbs on the bike and attaching the set I was surprised I had managed to sync within 2 cm Hg(!), well within factory specs.
Maybe - just for fun - I will build a DIY as described elsewhere, because I like the idea so much (simple fysics). Gives me also the possibility to check if the 4 clocks are still within calibration after all the hefty movements. The homemade set can never lie. No negatives: you need no figures, just visual information that fluid is at the same level. For the rest of you: share. Less is more.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 03:53:57 AM by Deltarider »
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline xsmooth69x

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,621
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 11:34:13 AM »
I've used the Emgo, it works fine but the tool needs to be checked and possibly calibrated before use, Very easy to do using the same engine cylinder and the chrome colored adjuster screw on the gauge front. A good check is to swap vacuum lines after the tuning of the carbs to see if there are indicated differences, verifying the gauges once again. The gauges can lay flat and need not rely on gravity and position like other types plus they are cheap to buy. They also don't have liquid to worry about leaking or being positioned inproperly during storage. After the simple gauge matching I checked each with a digital manometer designed for boilers and found the analog units to read the same to one another. +1 for personal preference

^ that is a brilliant idea about tuning the clocks with 1 cylinder.... that was my biggest con when reading about these syncs that the gauge style needs to be syncs for the syncs to sync the carburetors lol
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3

Offline xsmooth69x

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,621
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 11:36:49 AM »
I share a set of 4 clocks with another friend/motorists. Unless you have more bikes, cost of buying is hardly justified. That's why we shared and soon an owner of 2 350's will use them too. My experience is: once set you don't have to sync for a long time, very long indeed. As a matter of fact when you think they're out of sync, I would advise you to look for another cause. In my experience the carbs stay synced almost forever. Honda did a good job on this, after learning lessons with the 4-cable operated carbs on the early 750 models. Last time I used the set is some 15 years ago. On a few occasions I had the carbs on the kitchen tabel (for experiments with the needles) and decided to see how accurate I could sync by hand, using a small allen key for testsliding under the little cutaway section in the front side of the slides. I adjusted, testslided, adjusted, testslided etc. Then I drank a cup of coffee and repeated it, eyes closed for maximum touch. After mounting the carbs on the bike and attaching the set I was surprised I had managed to sync within 2 cm Hg(!), well within factory specs.
Maybe - just for fun - I will build a DIY as described elsewhere, because I like the idea so much (simple fysics). Gives me also the possibility to check if the 4 clocks are still within calibration after all the hefty movements. The homemade set can never lie. No negatives: you need no figures, just visual information that fluid is at the same level. For the rest of you: share. Less is more.

well i rebuilt my carbs and took everything apart..... never tuned carbs before so i dont think im pro enough to do it by my senses. i also haven't gotten the bike started etc etc
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3

Offline Really?

  • I've come to the conclusion that I AM a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,276
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 11:41:05 AM »
Motion Pro is a POS.  I had to fix it after the first use and still don't trust it.  I have used the liquid Morgan and was happy with that but I borrowed it so I do not own one.  I have the vacuum gauges and like them a lot.  Easy to deal with and maintain.
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline xsmooth69x

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,621
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 11:44:17 AM »
Motion Pro is a POS.  I had to fix it after the first use and still don't trust it.  I have used the liquid Morgan and was happy with that but I borrowed it so I do not own one.  I have the vacuum gauges and like them a lot.  Easy to deal with and maintain.

perfect ya i think im going with the emgo vacuum gauges  :)
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,301
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 11:59:22 AM »
i got a set that look identical to the emgos, for 1/2 the price.   8)
calibrated them to my #1 cyl, and they have been great since.

i'll find the link for you...

edit...
$56   Barracuda Carb Gauges
on Ebay
Saber Cycle is the seller

« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 12:05:50 PM by flybox1 »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline MoMo

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,275
  • Ride like you're invisible
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 12:09:35 PM »
My  personal preference is the Morgan Carbtune. I've had vacuum and mercury styles...Larry

Offline Really?

  • I've come to the conclusion that I AM a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,276
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 12:15:21 PM »
The only good thing that came out of the Motion pro setup was the plastic T thing.  You can sync all the guages at once.

I do not know where you can find one like that but I would think it to be possible.

I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,301
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 12:22:40 PM »
The only good thing that came out of the Motion pro setup was the plastic T thing.  You can sync all the guages at once.

I do not know where you can find one like that but I would think it to be possible.

now THAT would be handy little piece.
...time to search the big-box stores  :D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline xsmooth69x

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,621
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2011, 12:29:20 PM »
The only good thing that came out of the Motion pro setup was the plastic T thing.  You can sync all the guages at once.

I do not know where you can find one like that but I would think it to be possible.



wow a moon tube  :o that is crazy!! im going to try and find on of those tooooooo. if anyone can find that please post
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3

bollingball

  • Guest
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 12:57:55 PM »
Should be able to make one look at the aquarium stuff at wallMart.

Offline jneuf

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 522
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 01:04:53 PM »
I have a morgan. Syncing my carbs was pretty simple.
'75 CB400f

Offline rbmgf7

  • 2>4
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 881
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 01:09:00 PM »
I have the Promotion. Used it many times without a problem.

Offline xsmooth69x

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,621
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2011, 03:47:56 PM »
i got a set that look identical to the emgos, for 1/2 the price.   8)
calibrated them to my #1 cyl, and they have been great since.

i'll find the link for you...

edit...
$56   Barracuda Carb Gauges
on Ebay
Saber Cycle is the seller

could you find that link lol. i went to there website and its $89 and nothing on ebay.....
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3

Offline nancy

  • CB750 K2'ish - SOLD!! Triumph Sprint GT2011
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 672
  • No worries matey..
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2011, 05:43:12 PM »
I'm using the Morgan Carbtune and love it. While I agree with previous comments that the Honda carbs shouldn't go much out of synch,...I have "retuned" my carbs 3-4 times in a year. I don't see it is feasible to own a 35-40 year old bike and just ride it between scheduled maintenanc intervals. For most of us, I'm picking,...we are forever tearing into something in order to get to something else to fix something we forgot about in the process. Every tinker with a carb, the timing, the points, fuel lines etc....I follow with a re-synch. I regard this tool as esssential to every tinkering owner.

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,301
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2011, 06:05:32 PM »
Quote from: xsmooth69x link=topic=89623.msg1005348#msg1005348
could you find that link lol. i went to there website and its $89 and nothing on ebay.....
[/quote

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carb-Synchronizer-Vacuum-Gauge-Sync-5-6mm-YAMAHA-DEAL-/380330232458
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline CB500_k2

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 351
  • Wrenching makes a good retirement.
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2011, 06:32:09 PM »
I like the mercury filled MotionPro units.  The density of the mercury damps vibration quite well.  You just have to get the condensate above the mercury out or it polymerizes.  I am not sure what the reaction is but the residue is solid after a year of no use.  Share with a friend to avoid problems.
Too many bikes -- too little time
1973 CB500
1974 CB350 - sold
1975 CB400F SuperSport
2000 Ducati Monster Dark

Offline splitt

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2011, 07:18:04 PM »
I've got a set of Honda gauges & a Motion Pro mercury stick. The Honda gauges are the worst set that I have ever seen. The needles bounce so bad that they're impossible to read.

I've been using the Motion Pro gauge for close to 18 years now and I believe that they are the most accurate. If you do go with mercury sticks, handle them safely, and be aware of the dangers of mercury. Riding motorcycles can be dangerous enough, we don't want to reduce our ranks any further by poisoning ourselves.

Offline Spanner 1

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,092
  • CB 750 K0 ( always thought it was a K1!) + CB750K8
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2011, 07:38:49 PM »
Disagree with Deltarider.... the fact that he came close with a mechanical sync. is just lucky. Now do some other work on your bike , like valve lash or float level or timing , all would effect individual cylinder vacuum IMO and cause the vac. pressures to change relative to each other requiring a re-sync.
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline xsmooth69x

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,621
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2011, 11:03:37 PM »
^ ill take that luck
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,011
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2011, 11:09:24 PM »
analouge dial guages must have a damper or they will go haywire.

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,121
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: what is a good carb sync?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2011, 11:28:33 PM »
Quote
Disagree with Deltarider.... the fact that he came close with a mechanical sync. is just lucky.
Then I've been lucky three times...  BTW, am I the only one in this forum that has managed? 
Quote
Now do some other work on your bike , like valve lash or float level or timing , all would effect individual cylinder vacuum IMO and cause the vac. pressures to change relative to each other requiring a re-sync.
Not necessarily right. If the carbs were right from the factory and have stayed right ALL changes in vacuum result from other things like changes in valve lash or timing, all indeed effecting individual cylinder vacuum. That has always been my point. Given the carbs were right from the factory and have stayed right (and they do!) you can achieve the right sync by adressing the other points of maintenance. That's my point. Except when there's someting wrong mechanically (worn rings and/or pistons, damaged valves etc). Compression or leakdowntest will tell you. Trying to cure those problems by syncing will not work.
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."