Topic: 2 pipes or 4? Are a 4-4 pipes worth the money?

[bluezboy]

      I'm trying to decide if I should invest in a set of new pipes or just live with the 4-2 set that's on my bike. I have to admit that I do start to drool a little whenever I see a member's bike with all 4 pipes, those pipes are part of what attracted me to these bike. The way I see it, I am so far financially invested in this bike that I may as well have it look the way I wanted it to look,  it's cheaper than trying to sell this one and buying another  running bike that has them. I've been told that I should forget about 4-4 and go with a 4-1 exhaust for better performance, but these bikes always seem a little naked with that set up and I really don't care if my bike is not fast off the line like a Ninja. I can just hear my wife's voice when I tell her I want to spend $1000 on pipes. Anyone have a room they can rent me?

[Bankerdanny]

Worth it? That question ranks right up there with "what religion should I practice". It's a purely personal decision with no right or wrong answer.

I bought my bike largely because it had the original 4-4 and they were in good shape. If it had the very common Jardine 4-2 or a 4-1 conversion, I wouldn't have bought it despite the low miles, low price, and overall good condition. The pipes sealed the deal.

If you are looking for maximum value at resale, I think that you get the money back assuming that the rest of the bike is in above average condition and original. But I think they are icing on the cake. I wouldn't spend $1k on an exhaust if I had faded paint or a tired engine.

[burnoutking1971]

I agree with bankerdanny, I just bought a mac 4 into 1 with a megaphone muffler and I ordered another baffle (performance one) with it. Its not inst. yet since I'm still building the bike. But the $400 is a lot easier to take then the grand for the orig. If you had a really mint super low mile orig bike then maybe it might be worth it. I would be scared of spending a grand and then having a horrible parking lot fall or a low speed, low slide and ruining the pipes.

But I have learned from past experience if you really want something you might as well pop for it rather than buy a cheaper alternative and not be happy later or worse having to spend more money to get it the way you want later.

The wife will understand, but first you must butter her up with a dinner out, spa day and maybe some diamond earings. After the gifts then ask her.

[bluezboy]

I agree with bankerdanny, I just bought a mac 4 into 1 with a megaphone muffler and I ordered another baffle (performance one) with it. Its not inst. yet since I'm still building the bike. But the $400 is a lot easier to take then the grand for the orig. If you had a really mint super low mile orig bike then maybe it might be worth it. I would be scared of spending a grand and then having a horrible parking lot fall or a low speed, low slide and ruining the pipes.

But I have learned from past experience if you really want something you might as well pop for it rather than buy a cheaper alternative and not be happy later or worse having to spend more money to get it the way you want later.

The wife will understand, but first you must butter her up with a dinner out, spa day and maybe some diamond earings. After the gifts then ask her.

Thanks guys, My bike is in great running condition, thanks to my excellent  mechanic, which has included over the past 9 months, a new Barnett clutch, Dyna ignition and coils,  plug wires,  chain and sprockets, front and back brake rebuilt, new rear tire, oem grips,  ignition and petcock. As you can see, my wallet has had quite a workout!   I still need to have the fork boots replaced, but that can wait. Paint is in great shape, but I plan on having it painted a different color. Milage is a 23405. Oh my,I'm leaning toward those pipes, somebody stop me!
As far as buttering up my wife goes, she's happy when I give her a new power tool to use in creatingher art. That 12" compound miter saw I got her a while back was a winner. Hmmm... maybe I need to by her a welding set up. Any suggestions of where to look for pipes besides FEEBAY will be appreciated

[76CB5WI]

I liked the 2to1s on my 550. You can always..buy the 4-4 which are nice and keep them if you
ever sell the bike..with the old exhaust. If you end up restoring..yours or another then youll be happy youve got the 4-4. I have the 300s on mine..they are glorious in every way!!

[Deltarider]

For me they were definitely worth the money. My original set lasted between 70.000 and 80.000 kms. Then I was very lucky finding 3 of the 4 genuine mufflers NEW at two different dealers. They had been stored there for years, since buyers of a new CB500 years ago judged it better to order a 4 into 1 mounted on their NEW 500 rightaway(!), leaving the dealers the unused stock pipes. Mind you, in those days it was popular belief a 4-1 would bring extra power. These dealers were glad they finally could sell them to me. Dealer A let me have two pipes for € 70,- in total. Dealer B would not let me have no. 3 for less than € 55,- So I had three genuine exhausts for € 125,-, NEW!!! To complete the set I had to order the fourth for Honda price, although the dealer gave me a discount. So for no.4 alone I payed  € 120,-. A complete new set for € 245,-! Less then a year later I was able to sell my old set that was still in the basement to a heater mechanic for € 40,-.  He had never liked the 4-1 on his 500 and wanted my old set, regardless of the state the pipes were in.
The new set now has done 60.000 kms and although inside some things may be loose, on the outside they're still very nice. The secret is NO short rides. Don't be tempted to start your bike just to listen to it for a minute. Don't! Every time I start my bike, I'll ride it for at least 25 minutes and I ride it well, so it's hot by the time it enters the garage again.
Although I will never find a set that cheap again, I wouldn't hesitate to buy new genuine Honda mufflers again. They're beautifull (you invest in art) and they sound right. Moreover they make your engine breathe the way Honda ment it and you can really monitor and finetune every cylinder.
Your bike will be a real Four and keep it's value and... did I mention the looks?

[Tripps]

I fell in love at first sight with my bike partly because of the 4 mufflers, too. My headers were in decent shape, so I cut the rusted out mufflers off and put 4 slip on Dunstall replicas on it for about $250 bucks. I might have considered original, or original replicas if I could have found them for $1000, best I could find was $1400 for Japanese replicas, supposedly by OEM manufacturer. Someone said Dave Silver spares had them, but they don't list them any more.

[Flying J]

I like the 4-4 but mine are not a stock set.

[bluezboy]

For me they were definitely worth the money. My original set lasted between 70.000 and 80.000 kms. Then I was very lucky finding 3 of the 4 genuine mufflers NEW at two different dealers. They had been stored there for years, since buyers of a new CB500 years ago judged it better to order a 4 into 1 mounted on their NEW 500 rightaway(!), leaving the dealers the unused stock pipes. Mind you, in those days it was popular belief a 4-1 would bring extra power. These dealers were glad they finally could sell them to me. Dealer A let me have two pipes for € 70,- in total. Dealer B would not let me have no. 3 for less than € 55,- So I had three genuine exhausts for € 125,-, NEW!!! To complete the set I had to order the fourth for Honda price, although the dealer gave me a discount. So for no.4 alone I payed  € 120,-. A complete new set for € 245,-! Less then a year later I was able to sell my old set that was still in the basement to a heater mechanic for € 40,-.  He had never liked the 4-1 on his 500 and wanted my old set, regardless of the state the pipes were in.
The new set now has done 60.000 kms and although inside some things may be loose, on the outside they're still very nice. The secret is NO short rides. Don't be tempted to start you bike just to listen to it for a minute. Don't! Every time I start my bike, I'll ride it for at least 25 minutes and I ride it well, so it's hot by the time it enters the garage again.
Although I will never find a set that cheap again, I wouldn't hesitate to buy new genuine Honda mufflers again. They're beautifull (you invest in art) and they sound right. Moreover they make your engine breathe the way Honda ment it and you can really monitor and finetune every cylinder.
Your bike will be a real Four and keep it's value and... did I mention the looks?

 Hey, you guys have me sold, time to start saving my pennies or go rob a bank. Yes, I do want a "real Four", I'm tired of looking at those 4-2's.

[TwoTired]

I drove my 74 Cb550 with 4 into 2 for about 15 -20 years.  Yes, it was a cost consideration.  And then I finally bucked up to the 4 into 4.  Yes, I think it was worth it.

Don't believe the 4 into 1 guys saying it improves performance, certainly not with a MAC.  Those are just cheap replacements meeting a "looks" style and provide raw materials minimization.  None of the MAC pipes are sized optimized in diameter or length tuned, and the muffler internals are structural rather than have any function for power enhancement.  Besides, if the 4 into 1 was actually tuned for performance benefit, it would only be a help in the very high RPM band, and actually hinder performance, at normal street operating ranges.  The four exhaust pulses foul exhaust extraction of neighboring cylinders below the "tuned" RPM band.

You don't get the extraction fouling from the neighbor with a 4 into 4 system.  So, both medium and high speeds can have excellent extraction.  The cost is the weight of 4 pipes.  Since the bike is really no longer a contender for even street racing, the weight does not concern me.

I WOULD like a 4 into 4 system in thin wall stainless or aluminum.  But, I think those costs are higher than the stock system!

Cheers,

[smashedmelon]

My mint original 4-4 is coming in handy for a "mostly" original K3 project I am working on. My current runner which provided said mint piped will also get a 4-4 which I will be fabricating for the bike from 4 good headers I have from a rusted out tail set...

so its always good to hang onto 'dem pipes.

[bluezboy]

 Two-tired, I was hoping to hear from you about this subject and it's good to hear your opinion. I wasn't drinking the Kool-aid either about that theory that the  4-1 setup will give my bike better performance. If Honda had meant for these bikes to run 4-1, they would have built it that way. I don't plan on riding 15 or 20 years before I change the pipes, since this may be the only bike I own until I get both of my kids through college, high school senior and junior, I may as well have my bike exactly the way I want it. Honey, did you hear that?!

[zzpete]

  Start putting away the cash for the stock setup. Their not going to get cheaper.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-EXHAUST-MUFFLERS-341-CODE-CB750-CB750K-1972-76-o38-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53e7b61a30QQitemZ360369756720QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_3535wt_736
 I will say if you go with the 4 into 4 make sure you clean out the exhaust drain holes every couple of weeks. You don't want those precious babies rusting out. I love the sound of HM300's, but HM341 are cheaper and are the original type for your bike. GO FOR IT!!!
John's 1970 CB750 K0

[Flying J]

Two-tired, I was hoping to hear from you about this subject and it's good to hear your opinion. I wasn't drinking the Kool-aid either about that theory that the  4-1 setup will give my bike better performance. If Honda had meant for these bikes to run 4-1, they would have built it that way. I don't plan on riding 15 or 20 years before I change the pipes, since this may be the only bike I own until I get both of my kids through college, high school senior and junior, I may as well have my bike exactly the way I want it. Honey, did you hear that?!

The did put 4-1 on their bikes. Both the 550 and 750 supersport ran 4-1. Now weather that was for performance or marketability I dont know.

[Johnie]

zzpete...that video is my KO after I had finished the restore a couple years ago. Imagine my surprise when I saw it posted here. It was taken by hoodleyhoo when I stopped by his place. I was going to post a pic but no need to do that now. I can say the 4-4 really does define these bikes as far as looks from all sides. And the sound...well you can decide that for yourself. I am just real glad Honda saw the need and started to build these pipes again. Send us a pic of the bike with the new pipes. Oh, and a tip for you...if you get them from your dealer be sure to check them before you bring them home. Took me a few orders to get all pipes with no dents. For that price you should not have to accept dented pipes. That is the advantage in ordering from the dealer. Good luck with your project...

[zzpete]

zzpete...that video is my KO after I had finished the restore a couple years ago. Imagine my surprise when I saw it posted here. It was taken by hoodleyhoo when I stopped by his place. I was going to post a pic but no need to do that now. I can say the 4-4 really does define these bikes as far as looks from all sides. And the sound...well you can decide that for yourself. I am just real glad Honda saw the need and started to build these pipes again. Send us a pic of the bike with the new pipes. Oh, and a tip for you...if you get them from your dealer be sure to check them before you bring them home. Took me a few orders to get all pipes with no dents. For that price you should not have to accept dented pipes. That is the advantage in ordering from the dealer. Good luck with your project...

Hey Johnie, All I did was go to Youtube, type in HM300 exhaust and you were #1 with a bullet!!!

[Damfino]

Someone said Dave Silver spares had them, but they don't list them any more.

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB750K6-FOUR-1976/part_105280/

[bluezboy]

 Thanks Pete, that video just made drool all over the keyboard!

[Johnie]

I think I will have to go out and make some HM300 noise tonight...

[bluezboy]

 Yeah, Yeah Johny, rub it in. One of these days I'll be doing the same!

[KeithB]

if you really want something you might as well pop for it rather than buy a cheaper alternative and not be happy later or worse having to spend more money to get it the way you want later.

Right on the money!
I forked over the money for the stock pipes and the bike looks great.
No regrets.

[Greggo]

I WOULD like a 4 into 4 system in thin wall stainless or aluminum.  But, I think those costs are higher than the stock system!

Cheers,

Did you see the 4-4's Chris at MotoGPwerks made for FFJMoore?

[Tripps]

Someone said Dave Silver spares had them, but they don't list them any more.

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB750K6-FOUR-1976/part_105280/

I have a 1978.

[Damfino]

Someone said Dave Silver spares had them, but they don't list them any more.

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB750K6-FOUR-1976/part_105280/

I have a 1978.

NEW Reproduction Honda CB750K 1977-78 Exhaust Muffler

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Reproduction-Honda-CB750K-1977-78-Exhaust-Muffler-/350467734491?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5199813bdb

[bender01]

I need/want a new set of 341s but I think for the little more $ I may as well get 300s. `Too me they are worth it! I replaced a poor 4-4 on my 550 with new ones and it just sounded so much better without the rust holes and junk vibrating around! Plus it looked alot nicer!  Buy them while you still can. If everyone puts it off they may put off making them. I read somewhere one of the 550k pipes is out of stock.?