Author Topic: Steering damper anyone?  (Read 68010 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2012, 04:31:36 PM »
From personal experience, a tank slapper can be induced on a perfectly fine operational machine, in a straight line, simply by hitting a bump which from speed or its size or a combo of both, overcomes the suspension which begins to oscillate. It does not require a situation that is AFU.   A steering damper can slow it enough to save the day, and tell you to slow down, wake up and avoid those bumps.

Add to that any amount of lean angle and its just worse.

The Rickman has a suspension superior to a stock CB750. Hardly apples to apples.  And Carpy's bikes... really? Do any of those ever get ridden?   ;D
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline BeSeeingYou

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,913
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2012, 04:57:42 PM »
32 years riding and never had a tank slapper.  Speed wobble...don't even recall that.  Bikes ridden...XS650, CB750F, Norton Commando, BMW K1000.  Now I don't think I have ever scrapped stuff off my bike in the turns so maybe it's just my old fogie riding habits.  I am either loaded down with the wife or luggage for a road trip to the lake cabin or further. ;D

Offline Rookster

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 736
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #127 on: February 19, 2012, 06:31:09 PM »
Dick Mann's 1970 Daytona winning CB750 Race Type had a steering damper and the Honda CR kit also came with a steering damper.  Just sayin.

Scott

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,390
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #128 on: February 20, 2012, 12:33:08 AM »
Dick Mann's 1970 Daytona winning CB750 Race Type had a steering damper and the Honda CR kit also came with a steering damper.  Just sayin.

Scott

Yeah mate, I mentioned that Honda sold a steering damper for a CB750 as an option, but that was apparently overlooked by Roto. Never let facts get in the way of an opinion, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #129 on: February 20, 2012, 04:17:10 AM »
Sometimes guys mess their machines up so bad with mods that nasty things may be introduced into a bike. Others who don't look after the #$%* they have properly sometimes blame the design. In many cases if people left the designing to the engineers instead of #$%*ing with #$%* they no little about they'd be better off. :) Any of the serviceable SOHCs I ever had or rode were very civilized when used for the intended purpose. The bike is not prone to tank slapping.

rt

Well i thought that was what you meant..?

Quote
Check this 100 page post and note how many dampers are being used by people still alive riding 35 year old bikes, kinda of like having real world stats at you finger tips. Man there are a pile of these bikes still alive! When you see a rare damper install in that massive post note the lean angle and then  compare that  to the blingless lean angles of damperless riders.

Once again that means nothing, going by a lot of things said here on this forum {no offense meant} i would say that about 25% or less of the riders here actually know the limitations of their own abilities and that of their bike, i don't think, after reading your comments that you are in that 25%.

I still don't understand your point, steering dampers work and work well, there is no way they can "Sometimes guys mess their machines up so bad with mods that nasty things may be introduced into a bike" your words,  so whats your point. If you knew anything about bike geometry you would be aware that these bikes were made with quite small trail numbers {under 4 inches}, which makes for a very quick steering bike, any bike made today with those numbers will be fitted with a steering damper. A steering damper is just like fitting quality shocks, it improves the capabilities of the bike and actually makes it safer, and like anything, including the stock shocks, you need to know how to set things up properly to get the most out of your ride...  That's a fact, not an opinion.....
I know quite a few guys that raced these bikes and all fitted good shocks and a steering damper, none would ride without either.
I have posted pics here of plenty of Honda 750's from down under and most had dampers, i won't say that statistically proves a thing but it does show that people that know how to ride and know what they are doing fit better parts to their bikes, if you ride the bike to the best of its abilities then a damper is a safety device, as are good shocks, may as well throw good tires in there as well...
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Imago

  • 1978 CB750F
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 535
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #130 on: February 20, 2012, 07:32:01 AM »
Imago, RUN dont walk from them.. they are not the F'ing ones you need..F uses black springs, no covers. The ones in the picture some of the top rubber is missing the piece without the spring is just a shock minus spring adjuster and cover.. Not a steering damper
Thanks Frank! Would this work on a SOHC or do we need one that mounts to the frame downtube...
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/513027863-Motorcycle-steering-damper-90mm-stroke-wholesalers.html
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 08:16:56 AM by Imago »

Offline 750K

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,392
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #131 on: February 20, 2012, 09:32:40 AM »
Been watching this thread with intrest since it started, after looking at dampers online and on eBay there seem to be a ton of different overall as well as stroke lengths. Anyone have a recommendation for stroke length? I've always thought about fitting one on my 77, found all the needed mounting brackets but am on the fence as to which length of damper will have a long enough stroke.
77 Cb750, 78 Kz1000

Offline bikerbart

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,578
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #132 on: February 20, 2012, 11:40:17 AM »
Wow.Some people are serious about this whole steering damper thing.My commute in the morning is riddled with horrible road conditions,cracks in road,uneven surfaces,high windblast and I know a damper can only help.There is no reason to argue this fact IMO.
its better to regret something you have done,than something you havent.Except playing with explosives.

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #133 on: February 20, 2012, 12:06:03 PM »
Been watching this thread with intrest since it started, after looking at dampers online and on eBay there seem to be a ton of different overall as well as stroke lengths. Anyone have a recommendation for stroke length? I've always thought about fitting one on my 77, found all the needed mounting brackets but am on the fence as to which length of damper will have a long enough stroke.
This one came with a muffler clamp and L bracket to tie it to the frame. The front goes to the threaded hole in the lower tree. It allows full lock to lock. I ran it for many years with the clamp mount. In this iteration I welded a tab on the frame.

It is a Dunstall brand, 7 click adjustable. Proably not available anymore, but I'm sure there are some like it somewhere. The original CL77 style on the CR probably doesn't allow full lock to lock of a street bike. Maybe, but you'll need to know.

Ill get some measures later.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,725
  • Ex Honda Service Manager, Cert. Honda Tech - Racer
    • BentON Racing
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #134 on: February 20, 2012, 06:34:24 PM »
MC,looking good,you riding yet? ;) Heres the old Kawasaki style 7 click, they work,lock to lock,I don't think CL77 has enough travel. CB750 Hondas all of them stock oscillate at the axis(weave,wobble,etc.)You ever push one to or close to it's limits,esp on a bumpy,rough track,you'll be glad you got it! Have experienced many a tank slapper(Honda Sv. Mgr many years and racer),NO FUN,last one I remember well was on V65 Magna,shook so bad almost lost my glasses,shield was open! ;D...so if you want to improve your bikes handling and have some built in insurance I recommend it,just my .02! Bill

Yoshi kitted race bike has same one:This is on Calendar Girl:
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
BentON Racing Facebook
Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline BeSeeingYou

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,913
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #135 on: February 20, 2012, 07:02:42 PM »





I still don't understand your point, steering dampers work and work well, there is no way they can "Sometimes guys mess their machines up so bad with mods that nasty things may be introduced into a bike" your words,  so whats your point. If you knew anything about bike geometry you would be aware that these bikes were made with quite small trail numbers {under 4 inches}, which makes for a very quick steering bike, any bike made today with those numbers will be fitted with a steering damper.

Trail on the K bike is only 3.7 but the F is 4.5.  In fact  my XS650 is 4.4 as is the Commando.  Maybe the reason I never felt the need for a damper. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 09:11:22 PM by srust58 »

Online Tintop

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,965
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #136 on: February 20, 2012, 07:16:18 PM »
The damper used on the Kaw H1/H2's was from NHK.  It was adjustable (7 positions).  These are still available, and is the budget racers choice.  This what I used on my 550 cafe.  If you add longer rear shocks you will reduce the trail.  Steering gets faster, but high speed stability definitely suffers.  The Kaw style is about $80 (eBay), and Fast From the Past offers a variety of other NHK models http://www.fastfromthepast.com/servlet/the-Steering-Dampers-cln-NHK-Dampers/Categories
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline srbakker

  • Spam & Eggs
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 550
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #137 on: February 20, 2012, 08:07:52 PM »
I got an Aprilia RSV4R stock damper for $30 on eBay I plan to use if the stroke is long enough - about 100mm.  If not, I'll try to find an NHK.
1975 CB750 K5
2007 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Speed Triple
1971 Kawasaki F7 175 Enduro
2000 Honda VFR800 (gone but not forgotten)

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #138 on: February 20, 2012, 08:57:06 PM »





I still don't understand your point, steering dampers work and work well, there is no way they can "Sometimes guys mess their machines up so bad with mods that nasty things may be introduced into a bike" your words,  so whats your point. If you knew anything about bike geometry you would be aware that these bikes were made with quite small trail numbers {under 4 inches}, which makes for a very quick steering bike, any bike made today with those numbers will be fitted with a steering damper.

Trail on the K bike is only 3.7 but the F is 4.5.  In fact the my XS650 is 4.4 as is the Commando.  Maybe the reason I never felt the need for a damper.

Thanks Steve, i know that and should have added it to my comment, the F bikes have less offset giving more trail as you have posted... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,591
  • Big ideas....
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #139 on: February 21, 2012, 05:26:11 AM »
32 years riding and never had a tank slapper.  Speed wobble...don't even recall that.  Bikes ridden...XS650, CB750F, Norton Commando, BMW K1000.  Now I don't think I have ever scrapped stuff off my bike in the turns so maybe it's just my old fogie riding habits.  I am either loaded down with the wife or luggage for a road trip to the lake cabin or further. ;D
You're lucky...I have. On my CB and FJ1200. It scares the sh!t out of you.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline crazypj

  • I'm brill, me
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,466
  • first 100,000 miles. 1977 CB550F
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #140 on: February 21, 2012, 12:07:58 PM »
One thing I have noticed, US bikes have much higher bars than European bikes and front end gets 'light' at lower speeds. I've had FJ1100's up around 165 mph without any issues (other than setting fire to saddlebags  ;D)
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,725
  • Ex Honda Service Manager, Cert. Honda Tech - Racer
    • BentON Racing
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #141 on: February 21, 2012, 01:24:27 PM »
Mike,yes they do,believe me ,everyone of them got my full attention! ::) ;D Bill
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
BentON Racing Facebook
Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #142 on: February 21, 2012, 02:53:12 PM »
32 years riding and never had a tank slapper.  Speed wobble...don't even recall that.  Bikes ridden...XS650, CB750F, Norton Commando, BMW K1000.  Now I don't think I have ever scrapped stuff off my bike in the turns so maybe it's just my old fogie riding habits.  I am either loaded down with the wife or luggage for a road trip to the lake cabin or further. ;D
You're lucky...I have. On my CB and FJ1200. It scares the sh!t out of you.


 Absolutely, my first one was on a GT550 Suzuki, it was that violent that i was forced to ride it out into the bush, i just could not turn the bike whilst it was doing it thing.  :o i am just glad i missed all the tree's. 
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Really?

  • I've come to the conclusion that I AM a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,290
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #143 on: February 21, 2012, 03:03:28 PM »
Mine just locked the bars into the tank at about 70mph and yelled "Fore"!
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #144 on: February 21, 2012, 03:12:20 PM »
Mine just locked the bars into the tank at about 70mph and yelled "Fore"!

It always blew me away just how powerless you are and how powerful a slapper is when one happens, you are at the mercy of the bike, luckily, i have never had one in traffic....now that would be scary... :o
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Really?

  • I've come to the conclusion that I AM a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,290
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #145 on: February 21, 2012, 03:16:06 PM »
Yea, no kidding, i could do nothing but sit there, sh!t a log, crawl into a fetus position as thrown, roll and hope for the best.   This happened on a major freeway in the fast lane in Southern California.  Luckily it was at about 2am and not much traffic.  Of all people, my mother was watching from behind in her van and kept me blocked from traffic.
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline 750K

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,392
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #146 on: February 22, 2012, 09:44:56 PM »
So does anyone with a damper have a stroke length measurement or remember the length of the one they put on their 750? I've found 85mm, 115mm, 120mm, 130mm stroke lengths, any recommendations?
77 Cb750, 78 Kz1000

Offline Duanob

  • Bold Timer
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,011
  • Gotcha!
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #147 on: February 23, 2012, 09:29:06 AM »
Curious, but I wonder what the condition is of the steering headset bearings in the tank slappers at lower speeds? I drive 70mph no problem on our local hwys. I rebuilt the steering bearings the first thing I did to this bike when i got it and have never had that 'sloppy' feeling you get just before a tank slapper. I've had this bike up to 90mph and feels pretty steady but that is straight line only.

I guess my point is before installing a steering damper maybe install new bearings first? If it is still a problem then install the damper. But really why are any of us going that fast on public roads anyway? (flame on)
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

  __o
_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #148 on: February 23, 2012, 09:33:23 AM »
So does anyone with a damper have a stroke length measurement or remember the length of the one they put on their 750? I've found 85mm, 115mm, 120mm, 130mm stroke lengths, any recommendations?
Well i just measured the shaft part of my steering damper. A picture of it is in an earlier post in this thread. It is the thru style.

The shaft itself is 250mm. There is not a mm to spare in going lock to lock.

So I'm curious as to what's being measured. IF its not the thru the body style, but the closed end style like the CL77/CR750, maybe it would be measured at half that, or 125mm?  Or if you mounted it differently, you could get away with a different length.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Rookster

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 736
Re: Steering damper anyone?
« Reply #149 on: February 23, 2012, 10:14:34 AM »
It will depend on where your damper is mounted because you will use a portion of the stroke to get the arm to the fork.  Here is my setup with a closed damper



When turning the bars to the left all the way the damper arm is extended approx 4.25" or 108mm.

Scott