Author Topic: Yes, a Z1 & H1- unofficial Kawasaki thread - H2 is now a rider!!!  (Read 243658 times)

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Offline honda_dog

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #775 on: April 06, 2014, 05:35:33 PM »
Thanks for the invite, but Texas is a long way from Indiana.....
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Offline MoMo

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #776 on: April 07, 2014, 05:29:43 AM »
Thanks for the invite, but Texas is a long way from Indiana.....



C'mon man,  I've a friend who swears he did that trip on a Suzuki S-32,  and you'd get to ride Stev-o's beautiful Kawi...Larry

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #777 on: April 07, 2014, 11:15:07 PM »
Took the Z for a little ride yesterday.....



I love this bike, it starts right up every time and just wants to go and go...

Yep, they sure were a beautiful bike. You should give yourself a pat on the back mate, you turned an ugly duckling back into a beautiful swan........ ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline Gearheadgreg

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #778 on: April 09, 2014, 09:17:53 AM »
Took the Z for a little ride yesterday.....



I love this bike, it starts right up every time and just wants to go and go...

Yep, they sure were a beautiful bike. You should give yourself a pat on the back mate, you turned an ugly duckling back into a beautiful swan........ ;D
Wow very nice  ! back in the day we called it the Zipper ! i really hated getting passed by that bike lol
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fendersrule

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #779 on: April 09, 2014, 09:22:16 AM »
For some reason, the rear cowl just sort of disappears on the Z1, and I think it should stick out! Maybe if you removed the rear grab bar, it will really lengthen the look of the bike (that's what I would do!)

How do you even go about looking for a Z1? That's probably my next bike, but they are just not out there.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #780 on: April 09, 2014, 01:08:11 PM »
Fenders, as the owner of a k8, you really should not be criticizing the appearance of one of the most iconic Japanese motorcycles ever made.
If it works good, it looks good...

fendersrule

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #781 on: April 09, 2014, 02:08:26 PM »
I'm not criticizing the appearance. I'm actually saying that a beautiful thing of its appearance is being hidden by a very tall looking grab bar. I'd like to see the ass-end of one with the grab bar removed just to compare.

That's actually why I like the 77/78Fs because of the cool rear cowl. Many find rear cowls ugly though; I like it.

And as for the shot about the K8, at least it doesn't skip around curves during turns and is a 100,000 mile engine. Same cannot be said about the Z1.

As I said, I have money in hand to buy one. You just can't find the Z1s. If you do find one, it's going to be eBay pricing.

Anyways, without the grab bar:



« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 02:45:13 PM by fendersrule »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #782 on: April 09, 2014, 04:00:55 PM »
And as for the shot about the K8, at least it doesn't skip around curves during turns and is a 100,000 mile engine. Same cannot be said about the Z1.

I don't know where you get the "skip around turns" rubbish and the engine comment  Fenders ?, maybe you should go ride a few bikes and stop googling them. The Zeds had a "weave" in higher speed sweeping turns when being pushed hard, most people will never experience that because they don't ride that hard, the K8 has its own handling problems if being pushed hard as well and runs out of ground clearance faster than the Kawasaki,  its also the ugliest 750 SOHC Honda made IMO. The Z engines are just about bullet proof due to the gear driven bottom end and needle bearing crank, it will easily live as long as a sohc/4 or longer, without all the rattles...
750 K2 1000cc
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

fendersrule

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #783 on: April 09, 2014, 04:07:32 PM »
I'll listen to HondaMan, sorry Retro.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81400.msg914783#msg914783

It was enough of an issue where 4 people he knew died from "open country" riding..

I agree that K8s are ugly. I corrected that with mine, though.

Retro, you even said that they handle like $hit:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81400.msg1241973#msg1241973
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 04:27:26 PM by fendersrule »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #784 on: April 09, 2014, 04:25:28 PM »
I'll listen to HondaMan, sorry Retro.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81400.msg914783#msg914783

It was enough of an issue where 4 people he knew died from "open country" riding..

I agree that K8s are ugly. I corrected that with mine, though.

I don't care who you listen to Fenders, the point is you have no idea, you should maybe go back and re read what Hondaman says, he refers to "racing" and  "open country riding" at speed, which is as exactly as i said "ridden hard", no where does Mark say "skip around turns", they were your words and were incorrect, you were making an assumption based on something someone else said. I've ridden a few z900's and z1000's Fenders and know lots of people that rode them hard, none died either, my own accounts come from my own experiences, just like Hondaman. Like i said, if the bikes are ridden on the roads and to the speed limits {and a fair bit faster} they are very safe and will never do what you said, its only when pushed very hard they exhibit the problems mentioned here and thats a fact...
750 K2 1000cc
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750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline 750K

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #785 on: April 09, 2014, 11:23:45 PM »
Fenders, as the owner of a k8, you really should not be criticizing the appearance of one of the most iconic Japanese motorcycles ever made.
Hahahaha, that had me in stitches and I own a 77k and will stick up for its fuglyness all day. 
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #786 on: April 10, 2014, 05:14:26 AM »
Finally, some activity on this thread!   I've ridden quite a few vintage bikes and none handle anywhere near a modern bike.  I dont understand why handling is always brought up on the Z? Because of all the stories we've heard?
I've put close to 1000 miles on my bike, I have no complaint with the handling.  Given, I don't push past 8/10's anymore, I have a wife and kid and frankly, not worth the risk to me. 
Could it be that the guys that were pushing past their ability on a stock bike not engineered for what they were doing? (135mph on the street)

40 years ago, the Z1 set a closed circuit speed record on the Daytona race track of 160mph.  Obviously the bike had mods, but was designed for high speeds and didn't "skip" (what is that?) or weave.

http://www.yoshimura-jp.com/en/topic/z1_40th_anniversary/index.html


Fenders -  the Z1's for sale are out there.  You may have to go out of your zip code and don't plan on getting one for the low cost that you've paid for your bikes.
I've purchased four (project) CB750's in the past at a combined price of less than I paid for my Z, and I don't feel like I was gouged.  Got money in hand? Go here....


http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/221410776406?lpid=82&item=221410776406&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466




'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Operator

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #787 on: April 10, 2014, 10:45:14 AM »
For all the Z1 enthusiasts gathered here, There is a fella named Sam Kay in New Maryland, New Brunswick (just this side of the border from Maine)who has three, yes three Z1's. He is the old school mechanic who sorted out my buddie's CBX carb issues. (no one else in town would touch the carbs on an inline 6!!) and the carb issues with my 750K3. As of about a year ago two of them were for sale, one has been modified but not ruined, the other has been rebuilt from the ground up back to factory original showroom condition, I know, I sat on it. If anyone is interested in getting in touch, PM me and I can provide a contact number.

The third one will never be for sale. He has owned it since new in '73 and has become a vital part of his existence;).
If ever there was a creator of bastard sons, it is the open road, for she has claimed so many young men yearning for freedom......

1973 CB750 K3
1976 CB400F (Cafe Project)
1979 Yamaha XS400 (Currently up for Sale)

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #788 on: April 10, 2014, 02:24:27 PM »
Finally, some activity on this thread! 

Sorry mate, the BS meter was going off.... ;D ;)
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #789 on: April 10, 2014, 06:03:43 PM »
If I didn't have one, I would seriously consider this one.

Fenders, jump on it!


http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/4399045505.html
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

fendersrule

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #790 on: April 10, 2014, 06:17:55 PM »
Something doesn't look……right. Extended swing arm?

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #791 on: April 10, 2014, 06:24:42 PM »
Something doesn't look……right. Extended swing arm?

Yes, not the stock swing arm and no rear fender.  Easily put back to stock as long as it hasn't been chopped.

Hey, what'd ya expect for $3K?!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #792 on: April 11, 2014, 07:02:00 PM »
The problem with motorcycle forums is that they can become very "cliquey" (I think we had a thread about that awhile ago) and we tend to value some members comments over others depending on how popular they are, as opposed to how much they actually know about the subject from first hand experience.

I've seen this on this forum many time when folks here talk crap about Harleys, even though they've never owned one much less ridden one, and on this thread of course when the old "bad handling" stories about Z1's come up regularly.

I've owned both, and ridden thousands of miles on each, and I can happily reassure folks here that there is little real truth that well maintained Z1's are the "Widow-Makers" that some folks would make them out to be.

They did have problems though, like our CB750's and just about every other large Japanese bike built in the 1970's, most of the R&D was done on the engine, and the chassis was only sorted out after years of evolution. (in the Z1's case, not until the 1980's, in GPZ "Ninja" form) They had insufficient frame bracing, pathetic rear shocks, spindly 35mm forks with minimal damping, and tyres that were just awful from day one.

My new Fugly CB750F that I bought new in 1978 (discontinued model)  was just as bad, those OEM Bridgestone tyres were just plain dangerous, and I swapped 'em for Avon Roadrunners when the bike had only done 1000 miles.

I bought my 1975 Z900 in 1985 with only 4000 miles on it, it handled as well as my CB750K1 that I had at the same time, but had heaps more power and torque, and this tended to exacerbate it's handling issues. I used my tax refund that year to sort it's handling issues, and installed progressive springs, S&W air kit, steering damper, Marzocchi Strada rear shocks, and Pirelli Phantom tyres. This went a long way to sorting it's woes, as it would with most bikes of the era.

Kawasaki engineered an extra problem into the Kawasaki frame that our Honda's didn't have though, the steering geometry was all wrong. The fork rake was way too steep, which made for sharper steering, at the expense of stability in a straight line.

At speed the combination of steep geometry and the rider's upright seating position with the high "Cow Horn" handlebars made the front end feel very light and "twitchy" at high speed. A good steering damper would control the "tank slappers" that Z1's were known for, but equally, better tyres and shocks would prevent them from happening in the first place.

Most well maintained Z1's that survived the 1970's Chopper/Cafe Racer/Drag Racer era will handle acceptably with just a few hundred bucks spent on sensible mods, and are a joy to ride. Add that to the fact that they're one of the sexiest looking bikes ever built, and I couldn't think of any reason (apart from perhaps the fact that they are horribly overpriced for what they are) not to buy one.

The reason that I'm not in the market for another one is that I can buy 4 or 5 more modern bikes that have tons more power and better handling for the price of one Z1, and I'd rather have 4 or 5 different bikes than just one. Different strokes for different folks, I guess? Cheers, Terry. ;D           
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline Damfino

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #793 on: April 11, 2014, 08:32:50 PM »


The problem with motorcycle forums is that they can become very "cliquey" (I think we had a thread about that awhile ago) and we tend to value some members comments over others depending on how popular they are, as opposed to how much they actually know about the subject from first hand experience.         


Geez Terry! What a load of #$%*!!!

























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Offline Operator

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #794 on: April 12, 2014, 01:00:59 PM »
Well said Terry....and with all those posts, you MUST know what you're talking about!! ;)

If ever there was a creator of bastard sons, it is the open road, for she has claimed so many young men yearning for freedom......

1973 CB750 K3
1976 CB400F (Cafe Project)
1979 Yamaha XS400 (Currently up for Sale)

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #795 on: April 12, 2014, 03:46:38 PM »
I never experienced head shakes on the old Kawasaki 900 but the "high speed weave" was glaringly obvious, especially under power, I imagine if the wobble continued to oscillate it would end up in a tank slapper but i never experienced that on a 900 or the early 1000, the Kawasaki H2 750 2 stroke was another thing, it was without doubt the most nervous bike i ever rode, they were the ones commonly referred to as the "widow maker".

Here's and excerpt from the Classic Japanese bikes website.

Quote
"Handling issues were to dog the Kawasaki Z line all through its production but complaints were few when this classic first came on the scene. In fact, later versions largely resolved the high speed weaves."
 

They indeed had terrible geometry numbers at the front, they had around 3 inches of trail which was more than responsible for the ill handling. Wayne Gardner had Z650 triple clamps on his early  Kawasaki superbike because they had less offset which gave the old 900 a bit more trail, improving its high speed stability, along with a ton of frame bracing and better spring rates...... Just remember, on a well maintained early 900,  ridden sensibly you will probably never experience any on the above handling ills, they were usually reared their ugly head in high speed situations...
750 K2 1000cc
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750 Bitsa 900cc
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Offline Sgt.Pinback

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #796 on: April 18, 2014, 08:11:55 AM »
High speed wobble, ill handling...

You must have

... good taper roller bearing ...

...Steering damper..



...Konis..



What they had in those days were ill tyres.

Drove 210 km/h yesterday.... and survived!!

« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 09:58:42 AM by Sgt.Pinback »
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fendersrule

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #797 on: April 18, 2014, 02:47:06 PM »
That's kind of the point: The CB750 doesn't need any of that stuff.

It's an improvement to ANY motorcycle, yes, but high speed wobble is not acceptable and that's why this has been brought up many times about the Z1.

I took my 78k to 100 MPH, and it almost seemed like I could take my hands off the handlebars. Smoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooth.

I agree with Terry's last statement. Paying $7-10k for an "old" bike when you could walk down with that same amount of money to Honda, Triumph, or any other manufacturer and buy a new bike with warantee which will skunk it in all regards possible (Ok, maybe not looks) is kinda baffling. That's why regardless of the real value of a Z1, I ain't paying above a few grand for one.

There is a very cool Kawasaki bike out, but it's not in the US yet. It's called the w800. Yes, I'm a twin whore, so shoot me.

When these companies start to product some "true" renovated classics in the US (you can't ignore the demand for them) then it's probably going to be time to start selling some of my bikes, sadly. The Bonneville is where I had my sights on originally, but now I am not a fan. The reason being is because it's a "generic and retired old man" bike, sort of like the Corvette. The w800 on the other hand I will gladly buy once it reaches US shores. I would still like to see the w800 push the performance envelope more than it does, but I would still buy one and be happy producing 13.5 seconds at the 1/4 mile.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 03:04:39 PM by fendersrule »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #798 on: April 18, 2014, 03:21:59 PM »
That's kind of the point: The CB750 doesn't need any of that stuff.

It's an improvement to ANY motorcycle, yes, but high speed wobble is not acceptable and that's why this has been brought up many times about the Z1.

I took my 78k to 100 MPH, and it almost seemed like I could take my hands off the handlebars. Smoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooth.

I agree with Terry's last statement. Paying $7-10k for an "old" bike when you could walk down with that same amount of money to Honda, Triumph, or any other manufacturer and buy a newer bike which will skunk it in all regards possible (Ok, maybe not looks) is kinda baffling. That's why regardless of the real value of a Z1, I ain't paying above a few grand for one.

Your still wrong Fenders, the older 750 Honda's  suffered from the same problems ", not enough trail, steepish rake and head shakes, tires were also partly to blame,  they were just crap back then, besides and lots of older bikes had "high speed wobbles, GT suzuki's and 2 stroke Kawasaki's and even the boldor Honda's from the late 70's early eighties, just to mention a few . The F 750/4 models were known for their improved stablity due to rake and trail changes, and as Pinback pointed out, steering head bearings and good shocks and a damper made heaps of difference, I know a lot of guys that rode or raced these older bikes very hard and ALL of them had a steering damper and better suspension of course, if you think that the bike should perform well without these dampers I would love to know why they are fitted to all modern sport bikes..?  Go buy a new bike and watch its value disappear in no time, these old bikes are an investment that will only improve in value. Its obvious by some of the things you say in your posts that you just don't get it.... This is a classic example....

Quote
The Bonneville is where I had my sights on originally, but now I am not a fan. The reason being is because it's a "generic and retired old man" bike, sort of like the Corvette.

 ::)  And you worked that out how..?  A bonny will smoke your 750 in most aspects expect maybe top speed {very similar speeds stock on the early ones}, they were great handling bikes, far better than the old Honda's and with a good pilot almost untouchable on the street in those days.
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

fendersrule

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Re: Yes....I got a Z1
« Reply #799 on: April 18, 2014, 03:24:47 PM »
Here we go again with Retro Rocket being  rude and condesending. Are you that bored to search my post history and reply to every post that I make being an "asshat"?

The Bonneville is a GREAT bike. I never said anything different. The Corvette is a great car, too. But it's a very generic bike. You can easily have a GREAT, generic bike. The CB750 is an example of this.

Sorry, it just doesn't fit my image. Are you actually saying that the new Bonneville is a unique bike that's suited for a young man? Sorry, but it's completely the opposite.

And why are you continually bashing my bike? What does the Boneville have to do with my 30+ year old bike? What point are you trying to make?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 03:28:31 PM by fendersrule »