Topic: Its time to build a 836 Turbo

[MRieck]

Thanks David and we will have dyno time soon................see you tomorrow at commerce
ET Finals
go team

Good luck guys.

[Jim F]

Today was canceled because everyone forgot
There rain tires
Sunday should be a better day
Rained all day

[hotdog]

Any updates on this Jim..?

[Jim F]

Sorry guys but usually I am not going to post if we are still trying
To get the air fuel correct
Top end is still lean (no boost) with an AF of almost 16.1
Going to go to 240 mains (we have 230 mains now) and I have the drill set on stand by
Will let you know next Saturday (hopefully) and we'll see were
We are at
This Motor loves fuel and I am going to give it as much as needed
Jim

[Jim F]

Well it's back
Yes I was on the dyno today and this is what we found
1 could not use more than 1lb of fuel pressure befor it would start to leak
Out the over flow
A, pulled carb to check needle and seat and o ring around seat had turned to
Dust
With that fixed back on the dyno and AF was still lean
Increased fuel pressure and it came down. Increased to 4.5 lbs and AF is at 12.1
Jetting change to run less pressure ??
Running 240 main
The charging system decided to crap out and had to go to a back up
Batterie
We got air/fuel good at 12.1 all the way to red line
But there is a lean spike just as it comes on to the needle
Past that it's flat line 12.1
I have an oil tank that needs better venting
Had some oil spitting out the breather lines
Pulled the filler cap off and all is good but needs to be addressed
We decided to put boost to it but the waste Gate is not working
Needs to be looked at to see why there is no boost
All in all a good day as we FINALY got the AF figured out
More to come
Jim

 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Sounding positive Jim. I remember the parts on your bench.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Way to go Jim, now I understand,  lol, I called  a couple days ago to book , have to wait til the 13/14th.  Can't wait to see you put some boost to it!  K, Bill

[Ilja]

Well it's back
Yes I was on the dyno today and this is what we found
1 could not use more than 1lb of fuel pressure befor it would start to leak
Out the over flow
A, pulled carb to check needle and seat and o ring around seat had turned to
Dust
With that fixed back on the dyno and AF was still lean
Increased fuel pressure and it came down. Increased to 4.5 lbs and AF is at 12.1
Jetting change to run less pressure ??
Running 240 main
The charging system decided to crap out and had to go to a back up
Batterie
We got air/fuel good at 12.1 all the way to red line
But there is a lean spike just as it comes on to the needle
Past that it's flat line 12.1
I have an oil tank that needs better venting
Had some oil spitting out the breather lines
Pulled the filler cap off and all is good but needs to be addressed
We decided to put boost to it but the waste Gate is not working
Needs to be looked at to see why there is no boost
All in all a good day as we FINALY got the AF figured out
More to come
Jim

 

Nice that you got it tuned correctly!

I also had some oil breather spitting problems when running over 0.5bar / 7psi boost...
Had it one of the first rides I did with the bike, with the boost set too high.. and a month ago when I blew the ringlands of two pistons because of pinging.
I think the first time it happened it might have already temporarily snatched some rings, causing blowby.

After the last oil spit you could see the bike blow white smoke out of the breather tubes... so be carefull if it's spitting oil! Could be some broken ringlands that are still floating around between the rings! (mine were)

Now building it back togheter with correct CR and squish and an additional breather vent next to to original one on the cam cover. 

[Jim F]

We tried putting boost to it but the waste gate is not working
Going to put on a new version of the old that terry Kizer sells at Mr. Turbo
Don't think I'll have problems with pinging the rings as the ignition system will start to retard
The ignition, 1.5 degrees after 2 lbs of boost all
The way to 15 lbs, as long as the AF stays consistent we will be good
But that can be programmed to take out more timing
Or put timing back in
Right now it's set at a very safe set up
Keep us posted on yours also

Jim

[MRieck]

We tried putting boost to it but the waste gate is not working
Going to put on a new version of the old that terry Kizer sells at Mr. Turbo
Don't think I'll have problems with pinging the rings as the ignition system will start to retard
The ignition, 1.5 degrees after 2 lbs of boost all
The way to 15 lbs, as long as the AF stays consistent we will be good
But that can be programmed to take out more timing
Or put timing back in
Right now it's set at a very safe set up
Keep us posted on yours also

Jim

Christ.....I'll stick with N/A

[scottly]

Jim, is that 1.5 degrees for every 2 pounds of boost, so 11-12 degrees at 15 lbs?

[scottly]

Christ.....I'll stick with N/A

Coward....

[Ilja]

We tried putting boost to it but the waste gate is not working
Going to put on a new version of the old that terry Kizer sells at Mr. Turbo
Don't think I'll have problems with pinging the rings as the ignition system will start to retard
The ignition, 1.5 degrees after 2 lbs of boost all
The way to 15 lbs, as long as the AF stays consistent we will be good
But that can be programmed to take out more timing
Or put timing back in
Right now it's set at a very safe set up
Keep us posted on yours also

Jim

Be carefull with trusting on the A/F ratio. My A/F ratio was right at 11:1 all the way... even had it richer then that and it still pinged over 0.5 bar.
The rich a/f ratio is primarily to prevent overheating and pre-ignition when running full throttle with things heating up a lot.... you know, those pictores with melted holes from glowing spark plugs. Thats why you need to run rich.

Pinging is a different story, it's just small explosions (small ticks) around the edge of the pistons furthest away from the spark plug, caused by too high pressures for your fuel.. and hard to hear, especially with a loud exhaust.
My compression in the end was 9.4:1 so it pinged it's nuts of over 10psi... ringlands broke but the pistons are clean as hell, not a single overheating sign.

Tricky stuff.... mine even had good compression with broken ringlands, because the rings were still loose!
It started to show as misfire above 7000rpm... Only when I pinched a ring tight between the ringlands I got the white smoke and oil coming out of the breather. 

Your ignition is a good idea, and the right way to get some additional insurance for your pistons.. 
I tried retarding ignition but 5 degrees didn't make a noticable difference, but 10 did... When running 25 degrees instead of 35 I could run a bit more boost but not much.... 2-3psi before hearing the midgets with little center punches again. 

AWESOME bike by the way!

[Jim F]

Jim, is that 1.5 degrees for every 2 pounds of boost, so 11-12 degrees at 15 lbs?

hey jerry
It won't start to retard the ignition untill after 2lbs of boost
With the timing set at 34 degrees (I think)
Then after 2lbs of boost then it's 1.5 degrees after every lb of boost up
To 15 lbs. it should fall on its face rich and that's what we want
It's just as easy to put timing back in after that