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Author Topic: Electrical woes  (Read 3893 times)

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Offline Duanob

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2012, 01:45:22 PM »
Thanks guys! You all saved my bacon again. I lov e this site. As soon as I hooked up a car battery it turned right over. Everything worked as it should. I pulled the battery out of the bike and it was bone dry. Didn't show any signs of leaking. Strange. I guess I'll be shopping for another battery cause I don't trust this one not to leak out again. It's a great feeling solve a simple problem.
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"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2012, 03:20:56 PM »
When you overcharge a battery, it bubbles.  This is electrolysis, where the electricity breaks the bond between molecules.  It this case, the sulfuric acid (H2SO4) separates/liberates Hydrogen and oxygen from the solution, which becomes a gas and exits the vent on the battery.
Water is H2O.  So, fill your battery with distilled water (H2O), and your battery just might come back to service with a little tending charge and time to get restore the chemical balance.

I doubt your battery leaked.  But, the overcharging sent the water into the atmosphere.
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Dave K

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2012, 04:12:03 PM »
I agree with TwoTired. If you are lucky, the battery will take a charge after getting refilled. I have never been that lucky and the plates always sulfates and warped/shorted. I went through batteries like a house a fire when I thought I could leave them on trickle charge.  It just doesn't work for me. That is why this fall I bought 6 of the float type chargers from Harbor Freight. So far, so good. I did not buy a float type charger for the one 6v. battery I have. I have it on a .5am charger. The battery was new in Nov. It uses water because I left it plugged in. Not any more. I will plug it for a few days a month and then get a float type charger next fall or earlier.
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2012, 06:30:03 PM »
When it comes to car and boat batteries you just buy a battery and 3 to 5 years later when it starts to fail you buy another one. I guess that was the difference between a manitenance free and these OEM type motorcycle batteries. I've had boat batteries fail but the battery box usually has battery acid in the bottom of it. You just go buy another one.

Why not use sulfuric battery acid again instead of distilled water? The Yuasa has a stop-sulfating feature to them So hopefully I'll get lucky in that regards.
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"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

  __o
_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2012, 06:50:06 PM »
Quote
Why not use sulfuric battery acid again instead of distilled water?

Because the sulfur is still in the battery.  It didn't leave.  Just the Hydrogen and Oxygen, which you put back in as distilled water.

A sulfuric acid molecule consist of 2 Hydrogen atoms, 1 sulfur atom and 4 Oxygen atoms.  It get gain a bit more oxygen from the vent during recharging.

The strength of the acid also depends on the acid concentration without over activity, which would dissolve the plates much more rapidly.

The battery doesn't actually store electricity.  It stores chemicals that release or absorb electrical current during a chemical conversion process depending on the voltage potential present at the terminals, and how much of the plates and electrolyte are in a "converted" state.

For more detail, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery

Cheers,
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Duanob

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2012, 09:12:17 AM »
Thanks TT. I never did finish chemistry in college, I just changed my major to an arts degree!
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"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

  __o
_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)

bollingball

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2012, 10:32:15 AM »
Duanob If you want your bike battery to work more like your car battery.Longer life very little maintenance. Than spend a little more money and get a (AGM) and the proper charger you will not believe the difference. No more fluid to worry about just keep connections clean and charging circuit on the bike working as it should no over charging. There is no reason you should not get 4 to 6 years out of the agm battery.

                                     Ken
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bollingball

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2012, 04:27:55 PM »
TT  On reply 21 can you go through what you do to condition This size of bike battery?
                                          Thanks in advance
                                                 Ken
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2012, 05:27:03 PM »
Quote from: bollingball on February 19, 2012, 10:32:15 AM
Duanob If you want your bike battery to work more like your car battery.Longer life very little maintenance. Than spend a little more money and get a (AGM) and the proper charger you will not believe the difference. No more fluid to worry about just keep connections clean and charging circuit on the bike working as it should no over charging. There is no reason you should not get 4 to 6 years out of the agm battery.

                                     Ken

BB If I can't bring this battery back to life or it just gives me more trouble then that's what I plan on doing.
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"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

  __o
_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Electrical woes
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2012, 06:06:45 PM »
Quote from: bollingball on February 19, 2012, 04:27:55 PM
TT  On reply 21 can you go through what you do to condition This size of bike battery?
                                          Thanks in advance
                                                 Ken

In order to make the chemicals saturate into full conversion, you have to charge the battery just until it begins gassing freely.  This size battery (CB550) would have a 1.2A (1/10C) charger placed on it and then watched until gassing is observed.
If you have a float charger that switches to float at 14.5V it would condition the battery automatically. The Yuasa Smart Shot (Float charger/maintainer) does this.  But, I have float chargers that switch to float at 13.8-ish, which would be more correct in hot weather situations (see chart below).  I'm not certain what the Battery Tender Jr float charger switches at, as I don't have one of those, and not all chargers are up front with this spec., probably to avoid some "average" customer confusion.  Deltran does have a nice explanation of the charging steps.
http://batterytender.com/resources/battery-basics.htm
Somewhat less technical, but good info here:
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/motor_battery.php

Anyway, what you want is a charger that sneaks up on the 14.5V peak with gradually reducing current as in a multi-step charger (3 minimum).  The 3 steps are: bulk charge, absorption, and maintenance.  Usually, the more steps, the better for maintaining, and even better would have 5 steps and temperature compensation.  (The temperature of the electrolyte determines its full absorption voltage level.)  But, a 5 step charger usually costs more.

Interestingly, I just bought a new AGM battery for my airplane from Condorde.  Below is the regulator or charger voltages that indicate full charge over temperature.
Note that a cold battery can accept a higher voltage charge level than a hot one, without risk of overcharge.  The airplane's mechanical voltage regulator has temperature compensation.  I don't if Honda Vreg does, though as I've never tested this function.  If not, it may be one reason why so many complain about short battery life in their motorcycles.

Hope this helps,
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.
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