Topic: brought it home for $300...

[jessezm]

Well, I brought her home today...  See this thread for the background:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105911.0







That's after a quick wipedown, but I haven't done any real cleaning yet.  I popped off a float bowl and the carbs are clean, but the slides are stuck.  the tank was never drained though and it's pretty gross inside, but it'll clean up.  I didn't notice that bad ding in the front, which totally sucks, but what can ya do.  The seat is perfect.  Brakes are grabbing, and the front reservoir is full of crusty white powder.  Is that what happens to brake fluid?  This bike has been sitting inside untouched since 1984.  Owner couldn't find the title, but he did produce the original bill of sale from 1973!  This is a one-owner bike, and in GA getting it tagged is a cinch.

Finally, I popped in a new battery and turned the key and got power.  All electrics look extremely clean.  Starter button didn't work but I used the solonoid and she turns over fine.  Got my work cut out for me but hey, for $300 it's a damn good start! 

[Really?]

Well worth the $300!

[flybox1]

Nice score!

[CycleRanger]

Well worth the $300!

Yep!

[tomkimberly]

Can I have dibs on the next $ 300.00 750 four that shows up?   

Nice find!

Tom

[elbowdeep]

Bill of sale in 1973?  Nope.  Appears to be a '75 or '76 SS

[jessezm]

Sorry, meant to explain--he bought it new in '73 and chopped it.  Then hot-rodded the motor and put it in the frame you see in about '82.

[elbowdeep]

put a K motor in an F frame? funny

[elbowdeep]

Fantastic find though.  Love your 400f by the way.  Workin on the same meself.  Very jealous!

[jessezm]

According to the owner this is no regular motor.  It was build by a local hot rod guy and is supposed to have a tall cam and overbore high compression pistons, and who knows what else.  The clutch basket is not stock, as he said the stock clutch wouldn't hold the power.  But unfortunately, the burnt that one up, too, and cannot locate the pieces.  So It's going to need a new clutch...

[jessezm]

Fantastic find though.  Love your 400f by the way.  Workin on the same meself.  Very jealous!

Thanks!  I will always love the agility and lightness of my 400!  Riding my friend's 750 is a chore!

[jessezm]

Is this a stock '73 k3 Clutch basket?

[Tugboat]

I have a 77K motor in my 76F frame.. not that uncommon. Nice find!!!!

[killersoundz]

Wow!!!! I'd buy that all day long for 300 bux. Only thing is the velocity stacks, when I see those I see engine rebuild automatically, lots of dirty abrasive crap getting sucked up

[grcamna2]

Jesse,
     That clutch basket has iron oxide rust..steel one ? ! It looks Strong..;is there any way the PO would let you try to track down his other clutch parts ?

[Plummer]

Way nicer than my $300.00 one ! mine however runs and goes down the road .  I have a couple of clutch baskets and plates I bought for my 74 , 1 complete , and 1 missing the lifter plate . I bought 2 for the lifter plates LOL !

[jessezm]

Jesse,
     That clutch basket has iron oxide rust..steel one ? ! It looks Strong..;is there any way the PO would let you try to track down his other clutch parts ?

 It's definitely a steel basket.  I just don't know if it's stock or not.  The PO said it wasn't, but entrusted all of the motor work to his engine builder, and of course this was in 1976 when he had it rebuilt and he's 73 years old now...  I've been using the googles to try to figure it out--thought someone here may be able to say

[jessezm]

Way nicer than my $300.00 one ! mine however runs and goes down the road .  I have a couple of clutch baskets and plates I bought for my 74 , 1 complete , and 1 missing the lifter plate . I bought 2 for the lifter plates LOL !

Well let me know if you want to get rid the extra parts!  Wish mine ran already....

[HondaMan]

Is this a stock '73 k3 Clutch basket?

That appears to be a K3-K6 clutch basket. The earlier ones that that had a steel collar added on the inner hub, but you'd have to split the cases to see if that was swapped in. The clutch cover and hub MUST come from a K3 or K4 engine (or possibly a late K2, after about 11/72 production) to get the spacing right for the clutch lifter, and to clear the ribs on the hub (which is missing at the moment?). Otherwise the clutch cover and ribs will scrape each other.

You will need a 7-plate (friction plate) clutch, with 6 steel plates. Despite what your friend told you, the OEM Honda clutch was good for 90+ HP, with nothing more than stiffer springs (like Barnett springs). The Barnett clutches don't usually hold that much power down, as they use 1 less plate overall (in my experience). I have replaced many Barnett clutches with Honda's own, and it worked better.

Honda is still selling many of these parts: I just bought some OEM replacements for broken ones I am rebuilding now, from Service Honda. I think they must still fit current bikes. You might wish to use Barnett springs on Honda plates, and make SURE the plates have square-cut corks on them. Many dealers are confused, are sending out the slanted-cork plates because of a snafu in the Honda parts codes since 2005. Those slanted-cork plates are only used in CB500 and as the top plate on the post-1976 CB750 bikes.

[jessezm]

Awesome, thanks for the reply.  These are the only other two pieces that came with the bike:



So no clutch hub or plates.  But what is that outer ring?  I don't see it in the fiche...  I'll take your advice and seek out a '73 or '74 hub and cover, and order the stock Honda disks and plates.  Will Service Honda get it right with the square vs. slanted corks?

[jessezm]

Well, more confusion...  That last picture I posted seems to be a clutch "outer ring,"  Part #3 in the fiche here: http://www.capitolcycle.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=126005&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1971&fveh=2999

That's the 1971 fiche.  It shows up on the 1972 fiche as well, but isn't listed with the other parts, and then in the K3 fiche it isn't there at all.  So, am I to assume, then, that I have a K1 or K2 clutch and buy those parts accordingly (rather than the late '72-'74 parts)?

[grcamna2]

HondaMan !

[faux fiddy]

Can I have dibs on the next $ 300.00 750 four that shows up?   

Nice find!

Tom

Chasing after this stuff is  same as hot chicks.  Usually spendy.

[tomkimberly]

Don't I know it. I'm up to 14 bikes now, and you?   

[grcamna2]

Awesome, thanks for the reply.  These are the only other two pieces that came with the bike:



So no clutch hub or plates.  But what is that outer ring?  I don't see it in the fiche...  I'll take your advice and seek out a '73 or '74 hub and cover, and order the stock Honda disks and plates.  Will Service Honda get it right with the square vs. slanted corks?

Jesse,
    If you were to remove the clutch outer from the engine & take a picture of the back of it and post it...could be HondaMan will be better able to I.D. it...or someone else will;I think that is the main part of the clutch & it may have a part# on it somewhere,and then when you know for sure about that,you can get the rest of it for the correct K model.

[jessezm]

If I read his post above right, I think I would need to split the cases to get to the part he mentioned....  It does look like that basket comes off by removing the tabbed thrust washer and a snap ring, but I don't know for sure...

[grcamna2]

I think it should slide right off once you remove that snap ring.

[CycleRanger]

Shouldn't be a snap ring for that year motor.

[jessezm]

I thought I spied one behind the washer, but I'll have to look again when I get home.  Not that this means anything, but the original owner told me that he was pretty sure it did not have the stock clutch in it, but one that accepted a plate or two more, and that this was done by his engine builder.  I'll have a closer look this afternoon though. 

[faux fiddy]

Don't I know it. I'm up to 14 bikes now, and you?   

Five at home and two  and a half at a friend's shop.  Hardly even got into them, mostly disassembly so penetrating oil is a main expense, except for the lifetime supply of carb kits and the other random $100 a month stuff off e-bay.

[jessezm]

Well check this out!  PO said he had pics of the bike when it was originally a chopper.  A little googling and I found them!!!

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=262229547137512&set=a.192069477486853.57727.100000514064851&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=266808966679570&set=a.192069477486853.57727.100000514064851&type=3&theater

[CycleRanger]

Before those without FB start grousing.

[jessezm]

Thanks!

[jessezm]

Shouldn't be a snap ring for that year motor.

Quite right.  I just took off the washer and the basket slid off.  Here's what I found:

[grcamna2]

I'm not as familiar w/ CB750's well enough to know what model/year K that clutch is meant to fit...

[HondaMan]

The "metal hub" thing I'm referring to is on the other side of the primary drive shaft: sorry for the confusion...it is inside the cases, too.

The metal tamping you still have is pretty rare! They disappeared with the 'old factory' K1 bikes. Those clutches had just 6 friction plates, 7 metal plates. The later ones have 7 friction plates, and the top plate changed from a steel one to the aluminum top hub pressure plate itself, by reversing the order of the plates as they were installed and having the inner hub's fingers shortened at the back to make up the extra distance needed (about 1mm) to make the stack-up come out right. Chances are, if that stamped ring is the original piece from this clutch, you also have the reinforced primary drive hub as well, because they came together.

So, search around for a K3-K6 center hub and pressure plate, and get the 6 steel and 7 friction plates setup. If you decide to go Barnett anyway, their kit contains 6 of each plate, stronger springs, and thicker fiber plates. You will need to scrub them with some steel wool before using, too, as they otherwise generate lots of fibers in their first 500 miles, which go through the oil pump and are hard on the rotors. 

[LesterPiglet]

and thicker fiber plates. You will need to scrub them with some steel wool before using, too, as they otherwise generate lots of fibers in their first 500 miles, which go through the oil pump and are hard on the rotors. 

And there was me thinking about running without an oil filter.   

[jessezm]

Great, thanks!  I think i'll use the stock Honda plates with Barnett springs.  That is setup I've got in my cb400f/466 and it works really well.  So on assembly, what do I do with that tabbed metal ring?  Is it the second piece of the sandwich like it shows in the fiche?

The "metal hub" thing I'm referring to is on the other side of the primary drive shaft: sorry for the confusion...it is inside the cases, too.

The metal tamping you still have is pretty rare! They disappeared with the 'old factory' K1 bikes. Those clutches had just 6 friction plates, 7 metal plates. The later ones have 7 friction plates, and the top plate changed from a steel one to the aluminum top hub pressure plate itself, by reversing the order of the plates as they were installed and having the inner hub's fingers shortened at the back to make up the extra distance needed (about 1mm) to make the stack-up come out right. Chances are, if that stamped ring is the original piece from this clutch, you also have the reinforced primary drive hub as well, because they came together.

So, search around for a K3-K6 center hub and pressure plate, and get the 6 steel and 7 friction plates setup. If you decide to go Barnett anyway, their kit contains 6 of each plate, stronger springs, and thicker fiber plates. You will need to scrub them with some steel wool before using, too, as they otherwise generate lots of fibers in their first 500 miles, which go through the oil pump and are hard on the rotors.