Author Topic: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...  (Read 6716 times)

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Offline Randy

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65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« on: June 16, 2012, 11:32:12 AM »
I was riding last night, taking a right hand curve at 65, and the rear tire just broke loose, started to loose traction.. The bike went sideways..I went into dirtbike mode, sticking my right right foot out ready to go down, let off on the throttle, recovered.. I went back this morning an the ground was dry..the only thing I can think is the vent hose runs off the back of the engine by the swingarm... but can oil be getting on the tire?.. I am running pods..Oil level is normal... should I put a filter on the hose?... I have a 73 CB500K2
1973 CB500k, 1972 CB750 (New Arrival), 1978 Vespa P200 (New Arrival)

Offline Tews19

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 11:36:31 AM »
Glad you made it away unscaved! It could have been ugly
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Offline DJ_AX

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 11:57:59 AM »
Yeah ... I don't think you want to go into dirt bike mode there.... if your foot would have touched it could have been over.. seen it happen.
~ Vincent . . . '75 CB750 K5 . . . '97 BMW r1100rt . . . had; '75 CB550 K1 (sold) . . .  '73 CB350G (gifted) HELL YEAH!
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Offline DJ_AX

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 11:59:07 AM »
... and how old are your tires?
~ Vincent . . . '75 CB750 K5 . . . '97 BMW r1100rt . . . had; '75 CB550 K1 (sold) . . .  '73 CB350G (gifted) HELL YEAH!
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Offline Steve_K

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 12:00:42 PM »
Glad you are OK!!   Is it possible one carb float  stuck and gas drained down the tubes to your tire.    BTW, now  you know how roadracers drift their bikes.  Does your seat have any butt clench marks on it?
Still, good save and I am glad you are OK!
Steve
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Offline lucky

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 01:57:08 PM »
That can happen anytime. At least you did not high side when it recovered.
Cars drop OIL on the road . Stay off of the centerline !!!

That is why you need boots that can slide on the pavement.
Tennis shoes are stupid for motorcycle riding because the rubber just wants to get a grip.


It is very HARD to find good motorcycle boots these days with flat soles.
No heels to catch.

Even the motorcycle boots that cost $200.00+ are designed wrong. Many of them look good but are junk.

A boot with a leather bottom is best, it slides on the pavement.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 02:48:29 PM »
THAT vent hose from the back of the tranny connects to the oil tank :o

You where very fortunate........check you tire for oil film before your next ride.
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline lucky

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 02:59:31 PM »
THAT vent hose from the back of the tranny connects to the oil tank :o

You where very fortunate........check you tire for oil film before your next ride.

That is NOT just a vent hose!!!
That hose from the oil tank to the back of the engine MUST be in place because it returns oil that sloshes over the limit of the tank in some situations.

If left unattached could get you killed. Better wipe down that rear tire and wash it good with hot soapy water bro.

Offline Randy

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 03:52:35 PM »
Yeah I felt alittle lucky last night...the vent hose comes from the top of the valve cover over the carbs to the rear of the engine were the carb overflow tubes are... I washed the bike and did find some oil on the rear swingarm and rim.. tire is good.. I wonder if the oil is blowing out when under high RPM and getting on the tire...I washed the engine an rear swing arm and tire to see what the problem is...
1973 CB500k, 1972 CB750 (New Arrival), 1978 Vespa P200 (New Arrival)

Offline lone*X

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 05:05:25 PM »
Lucky, Scrambler, he says he rides a 500.  When did they start putting oil tanks on 500's?  Never seen that.   ;)

Glad you recovered and didn't high side.  Been there done that.  And everyone is dead on about keeping you feet on the pegs.  Unless your properly shod don't put a foot down, it will just grab and cause loss of control and all sorts of additional pain.  I would be interested in hearing what rear tire your are running and its age.   Tires start getting harder as they outgas in just a few years.   Many different profiles, tread patterns, and compounds.  Not all are good in high speed curves.  As you obviously ride aggressively you need a soft compound for grip and a rounded profile that keeps the contact patch pretty much the same as you heal over.   
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 05:10:22 PM »
My bad on not seeing the CB500.............and yes, at high RPMs the breather is pushing heavy fumes but its more likely that the tire is not up to your corning ability. Did it feel like a tar-snake?
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline tomkimberly

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 05:23:02 PM »
As already mentioned, how old are the tires?

Tom

Offline lone*X

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 05:26:09 PM »
I'm going to add one more tip.  Slow down until you are positive you have your traction issue resolved.  Even if you survive, road rash is really bad.  Nothing like having a bristle brush taken to you scraped off hide with all the nerve endings showing to get the gravel and road grit cleaned out.  Don't ask how I know.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 06:03:18 PM »
As already mentioned, how old are the tires?

Tom

And what brand, i have noticed a lot of guys referring others to buy cheap sh1t tires on many occasions, the difference between good and bad tires is "feel", bad tires just let go without any warning, good tires give more feedback and will start to slide in a controlled manner {for want of a better way of putting it}, besides, good tires generally only let go if the rider has screwed up or there is something on the road surface, gravel ETC.
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Offline Slug750

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2012, 02:42:09 AM »
Not sure whether this is relevant with Honda 4's - I had a Harley 883 Sporty before current K2 - hadn't ridden Sporty for a couple of months and exactly the same thing happened me after only riding a few miles. Lucky save, but rear wheel was totally covered in oil when I stopped. A Harley mechanic told me there's a one way valve that opens and allows oil to return to tank - if bike has been sitting for a while that valve can stick shut and oil that would normally return to tank is forced out breather with a splash! Rare but serious issue! Slug

Offline bwaller

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2012, 04:29:28 AM »
Just a couple thoughts. If it's oil for whatever reason, make that your priority, don't ride... period if there is oil present. As mentioned it's fortunate it didn't hook back up & highside you off the top. You know this often happens in these circumstances and then you have crash damage to repair and maybe some body parts to heal.

Hopefully for you it's not an oiling issue, then it must be tire related. Considering the money you saved not repairing crash damage, now consider installing the best tires available and keep checking tire pressures. I also cringe when I hear guys buying cheap tires. Fine if you're cruising up & down the boulevard, but if the pace becomes "spirited" those cheapo hard ass tires aren't worth much.

I don't mean to preach on this gorgeous Sunday morn, I'm going riding. I have faith in my tires. (oh man I'm sorry for that  ::))

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2012, 05:21:29 AM »
...the vent hose comes from the top of the valve cover over the carbs to the rear of the engine were the carb overflow tubes are...

This tube should connect into the bottom of your air chamber.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline SohRon

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2012, 06:57:51 AM »
...the vent hose comes from the top of the valve cover over the carbs to the rear of the engine were the carb overflow tubes are...

This tube should connect into the bottom of your air chamber.

Not on a CB500. The hose simply routes down by the swingarm. It would be quite a trick to have oil coming out of the breather; +5 on checking the tires.
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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 07:29:15 AM »
...the vent hose comes from the top of the valve cover over the carbs to the rear of the engine were the carb overflow tubes are...

This tube should connect into the bottom of your air chamber.

Not on a CB500. The hose simply routes down by the swingarm. It would be quite a trick to have oil coming out of the breather; +5 on checking the tires.

Now that seems odd. I take it this was one of the mods on the 550.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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scrapvalue

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2012, 05:40:07 PM »
Way to little information to be making a judgement call.
Was the corner a hair pin, 90 degree, 45 degree corner or a big winding sweeper?
Were you coming into the corner or exiting it?
Had you been out for a while or were the tires still cold.
Could have just been some dirt on the pavement. If it was oil, you most likely would not have recovered.
Going into dirt bike mode and getting your foot up was a good call. You do not want to go down on your side and have the bike on top of your leg.
You don't want to drag your foot, but you really don't want it under the bike either.
Anyway, ride safe and good save. What don't kill you, makes you smarter.

Offline MCRider

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2012, 05:54:22 PM »
"Now that seems odd. I take it this was one of the mods on the 550."

Twas that way on the CB750 as well, open the the wind, till K3 or 4. About the time the 550 came out as well? Then to the airbox. Shouldn't be putting out any more than fumes.
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Offline That 70s Bike

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2012, 06:11:19 PM »
Way to little information to be making a judgement call.
Was the corner a hair pin, 90 degree, 45 degree corner or a big winding sweeper?
as mentioned...what is the posted speed limit of this curve? If we're talking an interstate road (I-XX) you should be able to do it on Cheng-Shin tires!
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 06:15:58 PM by That 70s Bike »
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Offline RFogelsong

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2012, 10:43:24 PM »
If you don't find any oil anywhere (check frame bits too, oil  never just gets one thing wet, it leaves clues), put the bike on the centerstand and, maybe with someone holding onto the top of the seat so you don't tip it over, wiggle the swingarm side to side.  See if it has any wiggle in it.  If it does, see if another 1/8-1/4 turn tighter on the swingarm bolt changes anything. 

Tire pressure/wheel balance/alignment may be a good thing to check too.  Also, if you recently adjusted your chain tension it's possible that one of the chain tension adjusters could have moved a little starting this phenomenon when pushing the limits of grip.

Finally, were you leaned over far enough to bottom out?  I've had mine bottom on the stand and grab when I was leaned over in a tight turn.  Needless to say I now know the difference between the limits of my new tires and the limits of the bike itself. 

If none of this finds an obvious culprit, start wiping everything from the swingarm bolt back with a cleaning rag and some soapy water (not the chain though :P).  This is an old trick I picked up from a buddy who used to be a grand-am chief mechanic.  The idea is that when you spend enough time touching and looking at everything in a certain area you start to notice when something's out of place.  Plus, when you get done everything's all clean for the next ride. 
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Offline Randy

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2012, 04:38:25 PM »
Wow great call guys... Here's the skinny...I the tire was old after looking at it.. and it is a Cheng Shin tire.. After really washing the bike. I did find oil under the fender..So heres the finding.. 70 MPH on a 50 MPH four lane road with sweeping right curve in cool weather with some oil getting on an old tire will result in loss of traction and almost sliding into on coming traffic an ruining my kids fathers day...
Things to do:

Oil filter on the end of the breather hose
NEW REAR TIRE
BUY BETTER SHOES
SLOW DOWN AND FOLLOW THE LAW...
1973 CB500k, 1972 CB750 (New Arrival), 1978 Vespa P200 (New Arrival)

Offline tomkimberly

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2012, 04:47:02 PM »
After you install that new tire make sure to wipe it down with acetone to remove the molding waxes.

Tom


Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2012, 05:34:54 PM »
After you install that new tire make sure to wipe it down with acetone to remove the molding waxes.

Tom

Or do a small burnout.... ;D
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Offline crazypj

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2012, 05:47:55 PM »
Old tyre sounds like the problem.
If your interested you can find charts online to decipher the date code and find out exactly how old.
Usually more than 3~4 yrs and rubber is getting pretty hard (quicker if left out in the sun)
Cheng -Shin are not exactly soft compound tyres to start with
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scrapvalue

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2012, 06:05:55 PM »
You can check the quality of your tires,(new or old), with a simple test.
Try pushing on the tread with your thumb nail. If you can push it in a little that is good. If you break your nail when you try, it is time for it to go.
Soft tread equals traction, Hard tire equals slippery tire.

Offline Randy

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2012, 06:12:19 PM »
ok..
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Offline RFogelsong

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Re: 65 MPH on a curve.. REAR TIRE BREAKS LOOSE...
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2012, 09:08:29 PM »
Yeah, I went from an old dry rotted tire on the rear of my bike to a new dunlop s11 spitfire and it's amazing the grip level available now.  New tires solve (almost) everything.
-Rob

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Offline lostinthe202

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