Author Topic: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL  (Read 35415 times)

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Offline paulages

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DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« on: June 22, 2006, 11:56:39 AM »
unless you want your freshly painted engine to turn brown like it's covered in motor oil.  :'(

anybody remember those beautiful pictures of my cb550 engine freshly painted and dropped in? well, it looks like #$%* now. have to remove the clear coat and repaint. oh well, lesson learned. sure is fun to ride though!
paul
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Offline scondon

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 12:07:58 PM »
Yaaaarrrggghhh!!!     That's a lot of work down the tubes, sorry to hear that. Which color did you use(black, silver)? And was it the paint or clearcoat or both that turned color?
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Offline puppytrax

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 12:09:13 PM »
...WHAT???...   :o

Is that the "Clear DE1636??

I've been spraying my fenders, taillight brackets, anything I don't want to rust with that...   :'(

Now It's all going to turn brown?? How will I know when it's rusting??   ;)
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...Stock 1972 CL450 'Scrambler' also being re-assembled...

Offline ProTeal55

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2006, 12:37:46 PM »
Calm Down Gentelman...
I think he is talking about the clear turning under the heat of the motor.
rom what I read in the past, he cleared over his raw motor to "seal" it, and then the clear turned under the heat..

I would believe if you sprayed a part that wasnt as hot as the motor( like a fender), you should be fine...
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

Offline paulages

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2006, 12:44:29 PM »
actually, i used the hi-temp "aluminum" color silver, and then hit it with the "hi temp" clear coat. 500 degrees, my ass.
paul
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2006, 12:51:33 PM »
dam man that suck the big one!!!!.... how you gonna strip it off again?, thats a complete #$%*e..... sorry to hear it.... keep us inthe loop with how you get along... good luck peace
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Offline paulages

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2006, 01:21:11 PM »
i don't want to pull the whole motor. i'm due for some plug chops and re-jetting, so i'll probably just sand as much as i can and repaint in the frame when i have the carbs off.
paul
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2006, 01:33:13 PM »


                         That's a crying shame, after putting that much effort into a bike and then to have that
               happen. Lots of luck with getting it right. You've got one fine looking bike, except for that   
               paint problem. I know you can take care of that problem but, it's shame that you have to.
               Later on, Bill
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Offline ProTeal55

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2006, 01:34:11 PM »
actually, i used the hi-temp "aluminum" color silver, and then hit it with the "hi temp" clear coat. 500 degrees, my ass.
Sorry to hear my man...
I have used the same stuff (black) on allot of parts, but not directly on the motor itself.
I think it was just the clear that turned, not the silver itself.
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

Offline seaweb11

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2006, 01:44:51 PM »
I used Dupli Color Aluminum DE1615 Engine Enamel on both my restoration project engines.
Seems to be holding up well.

I DID NOT use any Clear coat on mine.
I've never had much success with clear coat over canned paint. Mine usually goes off 30 seconds after I spay it on.

I agree with some of the above that it was the clear that was the culprit

Sorry to hear it, good luck.

Offline 750goes

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2006, 02:36:49 PM »
Quote
quote author=TwoTired link=topic=4839.msg37891#msg37891 date=1129676377]
Paint needs a bit of surface porosity or roughness so it can "hook"onto it and remain adhered.
Highly polished surfaces don't have the bite that paint needs.  Clearcoats applied to mirror polished surfaces often come off later in sheets as the two materials have a different coefficient of expansion.  The original Honda clearcoated engine cover were a "brushed" surface for this reason.  This made them shiny but not mirrored.

Wax is very thin and not very durable, requiring frequent renewall.

If the surface prep leaves a surface bite. Then a two part polyurethene with UV blockers will work well.  Other epoxy type paint should work also.   The UV blocker is essential, or the paint will yellow.

Many years ago I refinished my front Forks and applied Automotive lacquer clear.  Looked great, I thought. A couple years later was getting compliments on how the front fork color matched the gold pin stripping in the fairing.  Er, thanks, but the clear coat had yellowed.  Nowdays, you can flick the opaque yellow paint "dust" off the forks with your thumbnail. (sigh)


Quote

Offline MRieck

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2006, 02:39:35 PM »
I had the DupliColor aluminum engine enamel on my cases for 9 years with no problem. I blasted the cases and reapplied the same stuff and no problems. Something with that clear (unfortunately).
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline paulages

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2006, 04:35:59 PM »
there's no doubt it's the clear, hence my thread title. you can actually see it being thicker where the clear pooled on the edges of the fins. putting clear on it was kinda pointless, but i thought it would give it a nicer shine (which it did at first) and it has the same heat rating as the aluminum color. i just wanted to give a head's up if anyone else was considering clearcoating their engine paint.

750goes, that previous post is irrelevant here, because it wasn't a clearcoat over polished aluminum. i have no problem with adhesion...it just changed color on me.
paul
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2006, 04:56:37 PM »
Part of the issue with paint is that local, state, and federal governments keep changing "pollution" laws and restricting what is allowed to enter the atmosphere through use or manufacture.  This requires paint companies to keep changing their formulation and/or manufacturing processes in order to continue selling paint as a livelihood.  In many cases, the paint brand you bought and used 5-10 years ago, is not the same paint you can buy in the same can today.  The formulation changes effect the way it is applied, the way it cures and the way it ages. Much of it has also not been tested for age and durability factors beyond a very short time from application.
The end result is that it becomes a "Buyer Beware" situation and the consumer becomes the guinea pigs and product testers.  Many paint companies here in Kalifornia have moved out of state or simply stopped operating entirely because they can't make their product under the new EPA standards.  However, the EPA laws seem to propagate to other states and locales over time.  Already NY, PA, MD, DE, and NJ have instituted restrictions, with MN and NH following with legislation in process.
With distribution of product being the way it is, products made in these states get shipped to other states, too.  So, don't think you are immune to paint can content changes where you live.

I used to get rattle can enamel paint from the local Hardware store that applied easily, was VERY durable after a couple weeks cure, and stayed glossy for years.  Now the label looks the same (though the ingredients in small print have changed), it is very finicky to apply, even worse with other than ideal temps, Chips and flakes easily, and goes dull in about two years of outdoor exposure.  Forget ANY rattle can clear, it either turns yellow in 6 mos or less, or it is like hard saran wrap where, if disturbed, it gouges and peels.

The rustoleum label hasn't changed.  But, it sure has inside the can.  And, the finish as suffered for it.

The only paints that still work like they did before are the 2 part catalyzed paints.  These are much more expensive, and are also the paints that will kill you if applied without personal protective gear to keep it out of your lungs and off your skin.  They also take several hours to harden, which means you need a sealed, filtered, ventilated booth, so bugs, dirt, leaves, etc, aren't encapsulated for all eternity in the painted finish.
As a result, such paints are "for professional use only" leave the average Joe with crappy paint that has to be redone often.
I don't think this is a coincidence.  A professional business pays state and local taxes $$$.  And, employees of these bisnesses pay state and Federal taxes. Further, the government gets more tax income from a high priced item than a low price item for the same application coverage of product.
But, I better stop now.  As, I'm sure some of you are thinking this is a rant.  ::)

Cheers anyway,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline jotor

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2006, 05:25:46 PM »
I used Dupli clear engine enamel on the tank of my 400F, thinking it would be better protection from gas spills.  Haven't noticed any yellowing yet.

Could be because the tank is yellow, though....

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Offline ProTeal55

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2006, 08:17:13 PM »
I used Dupli clear engine enamel on the tank of my 400F, thinking it would be better protection from gas spills.  Haven't noticed any yellowing yet.
Could be because the tank is yellow, though....
My tank is sprayed with Dupli-Color low gloss black engine enamel, and fuel loves to eat right thru it if spilled.
Just a heads up..
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2006, 03:36:43 AM »
Thanks for the advice. In order to prevent peeling from gas spills, I decided not to paint my CB350 engine. I did a thorough cleaning though, and polished many parts. I prefer a dign, old look than an spoiled one.


Raul

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2006, 04:10:25 AM »
I wish I had seen this post 9 months ago.  I did the cover of my cb900, and the same thing happened.  I might have done it with my 750 had I not already done the whole engine black wrinkle paint.  The only thing I could do with the 900 was to take scotch brite pads, red pads for the drill, and a wire brush to get the stuff off.  I wasn't sure about using a chemical stripper on the aluminum, so I didn't.  Good luck, hope no one else falls victim to this issue.
Don

Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2006, 04:17:49 AM »
I wish I had seen this post 9 months ago.  I did the cover of my cb900, and the same thing happened.  I might have done it with my 750 had I not already done the whole engine black wrinkle paint.  The only thing I could do with the 900 was to take scotch brite pads, red pads for the drill, and a wire brush to get the stuff off.  I wasn't sure about using a chemical stripper on the aluminum, so I didn't.  Good luck, hope no one else falls victim to this issue.
Don

Exactly to avoid that I decided to leave my engine alone with no painting. Having heard both stories of success and failure, I really didn't want to go through all the stripping process, so I just left the cases unfinished.


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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2006, 05:08:53 AM »
As a result, such paints are "for professional use only" leave the average Joe with crappy paint that has to be redone often.

Yep, my rattlecan paint job is also already F&#ked after a month or two.  After my 6 month rebuild, just putting the cover on for the night leaves cloth impressions in my perfectly prepped, painstakingly polished lacquer job.  I'm giving up on rattlecan paints.  Once I save the dough, I'm bringing my tank, seat, & sidecovers to a pro.

Sorry about your engine Paul.  I can sincerely feel your pain.  At least the riding's been good.

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Offline cbjunkie

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2006, 06:45:54 AM »
I have to say, I'm with Raul on this one...but then, I'm the type that doesn't mind a few glitches and dings - trying to keep a perfect sheen is beyond fun for me - #$%* I can't even wear light colored clothing without getting spaghetti sauce on - and I'm not even eating spaghetti!

plus, to me the soft glow of half polished aluminum beats the manic mirrored sheen any day.

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Offline cb(r)

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2006, 07:18:26 AM »
I hope I am not to late on this.  but ya if you put clear on the paint it will turn the colors especially silver or aluminum color brown with excessive heat.  I painted all my parts with dupli color engine enamel.  then I  baked them in the oven  I sprayed the silver parts and then cleared them and put them in the over.  after I baked the part it was golden brown.  I thought it was like I used  KFC's new recipe.  I had the cases apart and baked them as well.  I would not suggest clearing on parts that are going to get hot or you will end up with a spotted poop brown motor.

Offline rlvitt

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2013, 05:25:40 PM »
I've got a problem with ny Duplicolor 500 degree High Temp Black Simi Gloss engine paint. After setting the engine up for it's forst start the fuel petcock leaked gas onto the engine casing. I dabbed it off and teh paint came with it! What gives? I degreased the engine, washed it in soap and water and bathed in a spray of acetone to clean the surface. The paint has been drying for a few months now also. It seems to chip easily additionally. Have I overlooked something? Or have others had this same problem? Is there something I did wrong? i'd love to know.

Thanks

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2013, 10:57:20 PM »
Did you bead blast the cases and bake them afterwards?

I used PJ1 on the head (everything else powder coated) after I had expensive work done to it which included bead blasting. It hasn't had many heat cycles but has stood up to most of the work bench assaults.
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Offline Lost and Confused

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Re: DON'T USE DUPLICOLOR CLEAR "HI TEMP" ENGINE ENAMEL
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2013, 07:28:54 AM »
I've used  VHT high temp exhaust clear on my GL1000, with no problems. I think they rate it at 1000 to 1200°. Although I only used it on chrome exhausts.


Bob