Author Topic: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test  (Read 8478 times)

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Offline scottly

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2012, 06:41:25 PM »


I have personally decided to do it some way and never tell anyone.
I think I'll take the same route this time around. ;)
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Online CycleRanger

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2012, 07:22:28 PM »
What manual CycleRanger?
The Honda manual. ;)   Either 750 or 360. Might be from the setup guide, I don't remember.
Here's another picture from the CB360 shop manual.
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Offline Schnell

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2012, 08:17:14 PM »
This is riveting. Will there be a resolution? Is there a correct answer?
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2012, 12:20:33 AM »
I've actually experimented with putting it both ways, probably even had it different from side to side...and could not discern any difference, and nothing broke...but yeah, just put the gap to the back
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline MoMo

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2012, 02:28:58 AM »
This is riveting. Will there be a resolution? Is there a correct answer?


Unless Honda is wrong  ??? :o in every manual the answer would be...............................................................................

Offline 70CB750

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2012, 04:58:00 AM »
I dont believe Honda couldnt make precise enough it to clamp down full force without gap.

And HM quote is from sohc faqs. I wonder why he would say it.
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Offline MoMo

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2012, 05:16:40 AM »
I dont believe Honda couldnt make precise enough it to clamp down full force without gap.

And HM quote is from sohc faqs. I wonder why he would say it.



There has to be a gap, it allows the axle( handlebars use the same principle) to be locked into place so they do no rotate-see TT's post 15...Larry


Offline Whaleman

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2012, 05:27:52 AM »
I just changed mine back to the gap in the rear where I had it for the first 25 years. Dan

Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2012, 09:38:57 AM »
My two cents...

Only when the spindle diameter is slightly oversize with regard of the clamp diameter, is when you can be positive you clamp is actually clamping.

Honda did it that way, and for that reason there is a gap.

In my "modern" CB Seven Fifty -built in 1993-, I found that the master cilinder clamp has the "top" marking pointing downward. I also discovered that the handleblar clamps has some small indentation that serves to install the clamp in a given direction.

For the life of me I can't see any reason as to why marking a "top" sign in the M/C clamp, or an indentation in the handlebar clamps. But I can tell you that I was getting mad at riding while seeing a "top" engraving facing downwards. So one day I got my sockets and installed it the "right" way.

Long story short: I find no reason why there should be any difference in the orientation of the clamps. But my theory is that the japanese, being a conscietous and perfectionist type of people, found strange to leave, in the shop manual, something to be decided by the assembly operator. Everything must be specified, clear, and with no hint of improvisation.


Back to the front spindle clamp, it is necessary that the diameter is smaller to make sure there is clamping force. As long as there must be a gap, in Honda decided it was either leaving the decision where to leave it to the operator, or specifying where to do it.... and they chose the latter.

It is the only reasonable explanation I can find for that. Apart from what TwoTired says about preventing the front side to get exposed to water and debris, the actual force is performed by the bolts, not the clamp itself, so I don't see any structural difference between leaving the gap in the front or in the back.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 09:42:02 AM by Raul CB750K1 »

Offline Don R

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2012, 09:51:46 PM »
I'm going to rotate mine every 500 miles. Does it matter which way you  turn most often?
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Offline bryanj

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2012, 12:00:44 AM »
Just make it a whirling dervish mate,

If i can be bothered to get my arse into gear and find the bulletin book there is a proper bulletin on this

OK did it now stop bickering
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 12:11:26 AM by bryanj »
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2012, 03:10:35 AM »
Thank you :)

Now I have to go back and change it again since I followed Hondaman FAQ.  Oh well, live and learn.  ;D

It would be good to  fix it in FAQ - post 37 @  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=7401.25

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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2012, 11:48:37 PM »
Bryan, that bulletin explains a lot.

So it is not that the diameters are different- in fact they are the same, but one of the clamp sides has been milled in order to leave room for clamping.

This definitely would explain the reason for the markings in master cylinder and handlebar clamps. Guess I'll have to go and take a look....

Other thing that comes to my mind is that, even when the rotating momentum in the spindle is almost nil, in that way the clamp tends to tighten itself with the rotation of the spindle, while if the gap was in front, the rotational momentum would tend to loosen the clamp.


Never expected that a subject such as a front spindle clamp would raise so much discussion....

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2012, 06:34:09 AM »
Other thing that comes to my mind is that, even when the rotating momentum in the spindle is almost nil, in that way the clamp tends to tighten itself with the rotation of the spindle, while if the gap was in front, the rotational momentum would tend to loosen the clamp.

Now you're thinking like an engineer. ;)
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2012, 06:37:55 AM »
Other thing that comes to my mind is that, even when the rotating momentum in the spindle is almost nil, in that way the clamp tends to tighten itself with the rotation of the spindle, while if the gap was in front, the rotational momentum would tend to loosen the clamp.

Now you're thinking like an engineer. ;)

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Offline ncstatecamp

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The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2012, 08:19:46 AM »
Does it matter that much?

Offline City Boy

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2012, 10:38:00 AM »
Hi gang.I have always mounted front axles with cap clamp gap to rear just as I was taught while apprenticing and as Honda decreed in their various manuals without giving any thought as to why.However,I can't see that it makes a scintilla of difference to the reliability of the assembly as all forces that matter are directed away from the clamp and studs anyway.     Rock On
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2012, 12:55:14 PM »
Other thing that comes to my mind is that, even when the rotating momentum in the spindle is almost nil, in that way the clamp tends to tighten itself with the rotation of the spindle, while if the gap was in front, the rotational momentum would tend to loosen the clamp.

I think that is a very good point.  In addition, if the wheel bearings ever began seizing (or non-rolling) on the shaft, the tightening clamp would help prevent the slippage.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2012, 03:54:08 AM »
To wake up this dead horse  ;D  - I have a complete front end from 78 CB750F - and there is no gap under the clamp, front or back.

Apparently it was not so critical to keep it up in later production.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2012, 08:35:35 AM »
To wake up this dead horse  ;D  - I have a complete front end from 78 CB750F - and there is no gap under the clamp, front or back.

Apparently it was not so critical to keep it up in later production.

Perhaps the horse is dead.  But, it died without ever knowing the true nature of the universe.  ;D

Either you are mistaken, it was assembled incorrectly, or there are some non-stock modifications.  All three of my F2/F3 bikes have that gap and it is toward the rear.  Pictures on request.  A black gap in black painted forks might be tricky to discern.

Below excerpt from the Honda Common Service manual.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 08:37:40 AM »
Interesting, I will take a picture tonight.
Prokop
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 08:42:07 AM »
Interesting, I will take a picture tonight.

Do show the markings on the cap.  In fact, ensure it was assembled properly (per Brian's service bulletin) before taking the pictures.  Honda built it 35 years ago.  And, there are a multitude of wrenches out there which it may have encountered since.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2012, 09:18:02 AM »
Here are pictures.  I will take it apart to see what is what.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2012, 09:21:17 AM »
Details. The arrow apparently points backwards.
Prokop
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Offline crazypj

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Re: The front wheel spindle clamp - knowledge test
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2012, 09:38:44 AM »
There must be a gap so the clamp can apply full pressure.  The gap always goes toward the rear, out of the way of oncoming rain, dirt, grime, bugs, etc.  Same is true for bar clamps, and control group clamps onto the bar, and for the same reasons.

Cheers,

 That's the way I've always set them, for those exact reasons (as the set up guide doesn't tell you why )
 The clamp can stretch if fitted wrong and over tightened (as on the F2 front end)
I'm sure that if you check carefully you'll find the 'gap'  is angled as shown in service bulletin.
Just becasue it was fitted wrong 35 yrs ago, doesn't mean it's right today
BTW,
I worked at various Suzuki dealers for a number of years, they had equal gaps front and rear on many models Studs/bolts got pretty badly corroded as dirt/bugs/water got in the front 'opening' of wheel and handlebar clamps
Handlebar bolts are easy to change but doing studs in fork bottoms was a major ordeal
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 09:49:58 AM by crazypj »
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