Topic: CB 500 Cafe racer build thread

[Bugster]

I have found so much inspiration on this board that I must try to give a bit back by doing a build thread.
I have to admit that this whole thing started after seeing the show on Discovery channel. I used to own a 1958 Triton cafe racer about 10 years ago, and that TV show reignited that old spark.



Since one of the reasons that i got rid of that old Triton was that I was tired of oil stains and using more time in the garage repairing than on the saddle, I decided that this time I want to get something that doesent suck, so I started to look for a Honda CB500, 550 or 750.

I found a dismantled CB500 in a friends basement, so after agreeing on the price, I hauled a lot of boxes out of there. A lot of parts!



I have known this bike since the mid 80s, and back then one of the previous owners made a rat bike out of it.




The text on the tank means "Be kind to the animals" 

The engine, a 550, was also dismantled to molecules. Since it will take forever to put together that puzzle I decided to to try to use a 650 engine I bought from lordmenber1969 of this forum.




It had the carbs and ignition missing, so I have sourced out most of the parts needed.
Bought a set of Kawasaki carbs from Canada, but they have not showed up yet.

http://www.hondacb650.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=722

Hope I can get them to work.

Bought pick ups and coils of eBay, and decided to go for a ignitech programable ignition in stead of the stock ignitors. http://ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm



I also bought a complete front end from a 2012 CBR600RR of eBay.
It is a direct fit. I found a new in box tapered bearing set in one of the boxes, so after changing them, the forks just bolted on.





I was planning on using the stock front wheel, but there is an obvious clearance issue with the calipers.
I did not know that they would be so close to each other. I only have about 44mm.



Been thinking about some fixes for this problem. The rotors are 310mm, if I get a couple of 330s, I can make spacers to "lift" the calipers 10mm, and in that way move them further up from the hub.
But this in it self is not enough. Dismantled one of the calipers to messure the thickness of the inside wall, thinking about milling off a few mm`s, but there is not much to take away.
Anybody know if there is a different model caliper that is slimmer and will fit this forks?
Have seen CBR fronts been used, but I don't know if there might be any difference in the width of the triples, making some of the fronts wider?





It is possible I need to get a set of alloy wheels, but this will be the last resort.

OK, will post again when I get some progress. Have a couple of exams in late may, so time is scarce until then.

Hope someone have some thoughts about the caliper trouble.

[fisdan]

Nice Project

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I have a similar situation with a 2008 CBR600RR front end.  I have moved up to 320mm discs with spacers for the rotor mounts, so there is some increased clearance, but it still looks tight for spokes.  I am between milling some material off the calipers and trying to source non-spoked wheels.

[thestratomaster]

Cool build! The CBR front end fit right on with the stock sized bearings?

[vonvendetta]

Looks awesome. Doing a gsxr 1k front on mine. Since i did a modern front i wanted to add a modern rear. Mostly think it will work if i can get that chain to clear.

Gl on the build. I love building mine.

Sent from my skz_tenderloin using Tapatalk HD

[65Ch3v3LL3]

I think you can use a billet hub from RAD. They have one for the 600RR for the 05- 06 model. You just have to mill a little off the rotor mounting pads to get the rotors to line up with the newer front end. I don't recall exactly but I thinks its 4mm that has to be taken off. I haven't put spokes on mine yet so I'm not sure. It might need a little milling on the calipers though. My plan was to make new triple trees to get the trail numbers right so if they didn't clear, I was just going to spread the forks out the correct distance to run the hubs.

[Bugster]

I have a similar situation with a 2008 CBR600RR front end.  I have moved up to 320mm discs with spacers for the rotor mounts, so there is some increased clearance, but it still looks tight for spokes.  I am between milling some material off the calipers and trying to source non-spoked wheels.

Do you have the same monoblock calipers?
As I wrote in the first post, I wonder if a caliper from a older front might give more clearance.
In this thread, he uses, if my memory serves me right, a 05-06 CBR600RR front, and the stock 550 wheel :Olivia's Face lift. 78 CB550 build:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81683.msg917345#msg917345

To determin this we need someone to come with some measurements. Will 05-06 calipers fit these newer fronts, and are they slimmer?
Milling the calipers is possible, but as mentioned there is not much material to remove.

Cool build! The CBR front end fit right on with the stock sized bearings?

Yes, and if you check out the link to the Olivia`s thread above, so does the 05-06 CBR600 front.

I think you can use a billet hub from RAD. They have one for the 600RR for the 05- 06 model. You just have to mill a little off the rotor mounting pads to get the rotors to line up with the newer front end. I don't recall exactly but I thinks its 4mm that has to be taken off. I haven't put spokes on mine yet so I'm not sure. It might need a little milling on the calipers though. My plan was to make new triple trees to get the trail numbers right so if they didn't clear, I was just going to spread the forks out the correct distance to run the hubs.

That hub looks great!
I am worried though, that this will only apply to the 05-06 mod front, because they possibly have the older calipers and therefore allready could run the stock wheel.
For all I know, maybe this is not related to the calipers, could older fronts (05-06)be wider?

[65Ch3v3LL3]

I can't see any difference between the 05-06 and the 07-08 calipers as far as size goes and they show as interchangeable parts. I know they use the same rotor size also. The hubs I have were made for the 05-06 front end which is slightly wider. This is why the rotors won't line up with my calipers on my 08 front end. The hub is just a bit wider. I was going to fix this by making the triple trees as wide as the 05-06 trees. I need to make triple trees anyhow to get the trail numbers right. You will probably need to do so also. I'm currently in Afghan, so unfortunately I can't get any exact measurements at this time, but I will be home in a month or two. I should be able to get the front end mocked up at that time. I'll lace up the hub to a wheel and see what my clearance is with the stock triples. If it clears the calipers, then I might just mill down the rotor mounting pads on the hub so that I can get them to line up.

[Bugster]

I can't see any difference between the 05-06 and the 07-08 calipers as far as size goes and they show as interchangeable parts. I know they use the same rotor size also. The hubs I have were made for the 05-06 front end which is slightly wider. This is why the rotors won't line up with my calipers on my 08 front end. The hub is just a bit wider. I was going to fix this by making the triple trees as wide as the 05-06 trees. I need to make triple trees anyhow to get the trail numbers right. You will probably need to do so also. I'm currently in Afghan, so unfortunately I can't get any exact measurements at this time, but I will be home in a month or two. I should be able to get the front end mocked up at that time. I'll lace up the hub to a wheel and see what my clearance is with the stock triples. If it clears the calipers, then I might just mill down the rotor mounting pads on the hub so that I can get them to line up.

OK, so tho older fronts are wider? Then that's probably where the problem is.
Don't think I will start to make or modify triples, so if there is no other way, I`ll go for some sort of alloy wheels.
Will make a new axle to be able to put the stock wheel on, and then get some serous measures.
Would be great if someone with the older type calipers could check the width from the bolt hole to the inside, maybe there is a few mm`s to gain by changing. Searched eBay, and can get a pair for about 20 bucks + shipping.

[Bugster]

Measured the width of the legs today. CC 204mm
And the caliper has 64mm from the inside to center bolt hole.

[Pinhead]

Looking good so far, Bugster! I'm really interested in how you get the Kawasaki carbs working on your bike -- I bought a set to graft onto my '79 but haven't put any work into them yet. From what I remember from Soos's experience, the Kaw's ran really well on the 650 but the airbox didn't fit quite right onto the carbs and the restriction inherent in the plenum caused an overly-rich condition. Have you resolved any of these issues yet?

About the front-end: Did you graft the front-end onto the Honda's factory triple trees or did you replace the entire triple tree assembly and bolt the entire front-end into the neck of the frame?

[Bugster]

Looking good so far, Bugster! I'm really interested in how you get the Kawasaki carbs working on your bike -- I bought a set to graft onto my '79 but haven't put any work into them yet. From what I remember from Soos's experience, the Kaw's ran really well on the 650 but the airbox didn't fit quite right onto the carbs and the restriction inherent in the plenum caused an overly-rich condition. Have you resolved any of these issues yet?

About the front-end: Did you graft the front-end onto the Honda's factory triple trees or did you replace the entire triple tree assembly and bolt the entire front-end into the neck of the frame?

Hi again Pinhead!
Thanks for stopping by!
I found those carbs on eBay, from Canada, and I do realize that I might have been a bit to cheap when I decided to send them with surface snail mail, just to save a buck 
They are still not here, after 7 weeks 
The engine was missing the carbs, and after searching and reading just about everything I could find on the subject "BC650 carbs", it seems like Soos` solution is worth a try. Hope I can get them to work.

Just bolted the complete CBR front directly on. Just had to remove the lower bearing race that came with the front, which is pressed on to the stem, and replace with stock (I believe) CB550 bearings.

Stay tuned, I do foresee some carb talk in the future

[Bugster]

Not much have been done physically with the bike, but some thinking and searching for other solutions regarding the front end/caliper/wheel problem.
Have tried to find out if a complete upper and lower triple tree set up from a 05 model will work with my fork legs, and if in fact it is wider than the newer , and if so how much, but not much luck yet.
There is a few on eBay, and I have sent a few questions to the sellers, but it seems that they don't bother to do a little measuring, cus there is not much responce.
If anybody has the opportunity to do a little measuring I would really appreciate it.

I have also searched for alternative wheels, and I don't think the wheels of an old Kawasaki GPZ750 looks bad.
Looking for 19" front and 18" rear.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I have a similar situation with a 2008 CBR600RR front end.  I have moved up to 320mm discs with spacers for the rotor mounts, so there is some increased clearance, but it still looks tight for spokes.  I am between milling some material off the calipers and trying to source non-spoked wheels.

Do you have the same monoblock calipers?
As I wrote in the first post, I wonder if a caliper from a older front might give more clearance.
In this thread, he uses, if my memory serves me right, a 05-06 CBR600RR front, and the stock 550 wheel :Olivia's Face lift. 78 CB550 build:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81683.msg917345#msg917345

To determin this we need someone to come with some measurements. Will 05-06 calipers fit these newer fronts, and are they slimmer?
Milling the calipers is possible, but as mentioned there is not much material to remove.

Cool build! The CBR front end fit right on with the stock sized bearings?

Yes, and if you check out the link to the Olivia`s thread above, so does the 05-06 CBR600 front.

I think you can use a billet hub from RAD. They have one for the 600RR for the 05- 06 model. You just have to mill a little off the rotor mounting pads to get the rotors to line up with the newer front end. I don't recall exactly but I thinks its 4mm that has to be taken off. I haven't put spokes on mine yet so I'm not sure. It might need a little milling on the calipers though. My plan was to make new triple trees to get the trail numbers right so if they didn't clear, I was just going to spread the forks out the correct distance to run the hubs.

That hub looks great!
I am worried though, that this will only apply to the 05-06 mod front, because they possibly have the older calipers and therefore allready could run the stock wheel.
For all I know, maybe this is not related to the calipers, could older fronts (05-06)be wider?

I'm not sure about the 05-06 calipers.  The size of the 07-12 are the same, but 08-12 are monoblocks.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Not much have been done physically with the bike, but some thinking and searching for other solutions regarding the front end/caliper/wheel problem.
Have tried to find out if a complete upper and lower triple tree set up from a 05 model will work with my fork legs, and if in fact it is wider than the newer , and if so how much, but not much luck yet.
There is a few on eBay, and I have sent a few questions to the sellers, but it seems that they don't bother to do a little measuring, cus there is not much responce.
If anybody has the opportunity to do a little measuring I would really appreciate it.

I have also searched for alternative wheels, and I don't think the wheels of an old Kawasaki GPZ750 looks bad.
Looking for 19" front and 18" rear.

Frankly, I would go for Morris or Lester style wheels, if I could find front and rears in 18" that didn't cost too much more than rebuilding new spoked wheels.  I just do not know what is compatible. 

[Bugster]

Frankly, I would go for Morris or Lester style wheels, if I could find front and rears in 18" that didn't cost too much more than rebuilding new spoked wheels.  I just do not know what is compatible.

I have looked for Lesters, but they are few over here.
Some exist on eBay, but the shipping makes it a bit expensive.
These Kawa Enkeis are easy to find, and doesn't look much apart.
Keep me posted on how your front end swap goes, and how you decide to solve this problem.
I have sent a request to a localish motorcycle grave yard about wheels. Will know how much it will cost in a few days.

[Bugster]

Lookie what I got in the mail today  Exactly 9 weeks since ordered. They look to be in good condition. Perfect alignment to the ports.




I have found a nice pair of Lesters online, but they are from a Triumph. I don't need the wheels to be a direct fit, but I am a bit worried about buying them without knowing if I will be able to use them or not.
Anybody that knows the compability? I don't mind fabricating axles, spacers, adapters and such.

[Bugster]

A small update on the project.

Made a set of 20mm spacers for the calipers. They still touch the spokes, but just barely.
If I take a mm or two off the calipers it will be OK.
I would need 350mm rotors, but 330mm must do. The calipers will be 10mm to high but I will still have about 30mm of surface left.

I have modified the head light and also modified it to accommodate my new GPS speedo.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Those are some industrial-strength fork ears!!  That headlight is going nowhere!

[Bugster]

Those are some industrial-strength fork ears!!  That headlight is going nowhere!

 

[rb550four]

I did the 650 motor in the 500 frame, it's direct. The electrical , not bad with 650 wire harness, is some refitting to do around battery box/air box.

Also did the GPZ wheel thing, I used the 1100 ,

I found it easier to use the Kaw swingarm, shocks, and entire front end. Some custom bushings will have to be machined,as will the lower race on the tree, I was unable to find a suitable drop in bearing available so machining the lower race was my only option. It all worked fine. The rear MC was moved into the hollow between the battery and electric stuff under the seat, but yours will depend on what air box /if any ,that you will be using. I'm liking your project so far and will check in to see what you do. Have fun with it.

[rb550four]

 I forgot to mention that the Kaw chain/ sprocket was much heavier than the 550's, found a blank sprocket at the farm and tractor store and had it machined to fit the rear wheel mount. I chose a larger sprocket for a quick starts and and a torquier feel around town even though top end speed would suffer. It's just for fun anyways.
  Also the Kaw forks are beefier than the Honda,has dual front disc brakes already, making the entire front swap worth while.
The tank will fit with little mounting alterations but the honda seats won't with the tank. I used a suzuki  250 seat and seat latch for solid locking and easy removal.
  The Kaw swing arm is 1 1/2 inches longer than the 550 ,but is stronger,has a disc brake , and can handle a fairly wide tire. it came with wasted needle bearings that are no longer available, the width of the mount is slightly smaller than the width if the 550 so there is room to addto a new brass bushing or race for different bearings, depending what you want to do. Just thought I'd pass this along.

[Bankerdanny]

Can you expand more on what you did to use the Kawasaki front end? You said you had to machine the lower part of the stem, was the length ok?

[FunJimmy]

Coming along real well.
Gotta love mixing and matching 

[CBJoe]

What year is your 650 engine (79/80 had different port spacing than 81/82).... and what specifically were the Kawasaki Carbs you used (model/year)?

Cheers, Joe