Author Topic: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler  (Read 3414 times)

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Offline rjbez17

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CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« on: September 17, 2013, 06:50:38 AM »
So this is interesting. I've been having some troubles with my brakes. So since the bike is out of commission I decided to do a little work on other parts. So what I did was:

- Change the oil, the P.O. did a screw on oil filter conversion and I found the K&N 1002 filter fit well and made a good seal. I used 3 qts of 10W 40
- Wrapped the exhaust header. I bought stuff a while ago and finally got around to putting it on
- Removed an oil cooler that the P.O. zip tied on.

When I was putting the exhaust back on, I stripped out one of the threads. I haven't had time to tap it out, but this could come into play.

When I start the bike up, it starts fine and everything is dandy. After it warms up a bit (~5-10 minutes of ideal) it sounds like the valves start ticking and the oil light comes on.

At first I thought it was a leak in the exhaust since I striped out that bolt. However, the oil light coming on makes me think the oil cooler was actually needed? Any thoughts?

The frame is a 78, but I think the engine is a K2. I haven't been able to find and definitive info but the serial number is CB750E-2033XXX. The frame is CB750K-2850XXX. A few places online seemed to suggest the engine is a K2. Also, the carbs are from an older bike since there is no choke cable, it is a lever on the left side, could be coincidence but yeah.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 07:01:38 AM »
What oil was there before?  I think 10W40 is not thick enough - hence the ticking and also the oil light.

I run Mobil Delvac in winter and on warm Virginia days - we have them every so often in winter - the light would come on after high speed run. 
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Offline ekpent

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 07:05:14 AM »
If you just put in 3 qts that would be a little low. Think it calls for 3.7 qts or so. Earlier K bikes you can pretty much put 4 in but you did not hear that here.

Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 07:37:08 AM »
I believe I had 10W 40 in there before. The Clymer book I have says the bikes need 3qts 10W 40 for temps about 59 degrees F, so that is what I did.

Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 07:38:48 AM »
Also, my oil reservoir doesn't look like it will hold much more oil. I'm not sure another qt will fit in there.

Offline ekpent

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 07:43:16 AM »
I usually put in 3 qts and then start the bike and that allows the oil from the tank to sump into the engine which will lower the level. Then I top off to the appropriate amount on the stick after that. You have a 78 tank on the 72 engine correct ?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 08:04:34 AM by ekpent »

Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 07:45:58 AM »
I think so. I posted my engine number above...I haven't found anywhere to tell me if it is a K2 or K8...anyway I can tell? Also, Even after running the bike it looks I can see the oil in the pan after it turns off...maybe 2 inches form the top of the oil tank.

Offline ekpent

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 08:00:36 AM »
Here is a little starter thread for some reading on oil amount,more in the search. Not saying that is your problem but I would not run with just 3qts total.    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107690.0    Can you post a pic of your bike ?  Run the bike in neutral and look into the oil tank and check to make sure you see some bubble and good circulation going on in there. Does your oil filter set up have the spring and washer all in the correct places also ?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 08:07:48 AM by ekpent »

Offline Don R

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2013, 08:03:38 AM »
Did you drain the engine sump whan you changed the oil?
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Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2013, 08:05:41 AM »
Yes??? I followed this:

http://www.sohc4.net/cb750-faq/indexphp/cb750-oil-change-tips

I drained the oil tank, then the bolt on the bottom of the bike, then replaced the oil filter.

Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2013, 08:06:26 AM »
Ok I lied, I didn't kick the engine over a few times.

Offline ekpent

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 08:09:21 AM »
Lied  :o  :o     ;D  PS-Welcome to the forum if nobody said that yet  ;)

Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2013, 08:16:12 AM »
Thanks! Figured I'd finally join since every Google search seems to come here. This is my first bike and I figured it was a good one because they are common and seem easy to work on...I haven't had the best of luck so far  :-\

I'm working on a picture. Don't have much on my phone but can snap a few when I get off work.

Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2013, 10:35:21 AM »
Whoops, wrong thread

Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2013, 10:42:16 AM »
The CB750 is not sensitive to oil level to turn off the oil light. Unless you are really low, like less than 2qts. Anything above that is enough for the oil pump to get a full load and turn off the light. Remember the oil pump is at the lowest point almost, and virtually any amount of oil that fills to the bottom of the tank is enough.

You wouldn't want to run that way, but it will turn off the light.

An exhaust leak can sound suspiciously like a valve tick.
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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2013, 10:49:17 AM »
Despite what the manual says, I rarely can put more than 3 qts in. I use even thinner synthetic oil in the wintertime, that has nothing to do with the light coming on. The oil cooler is not needed. The CB 750 is very health and the oil tank on the side works a little like an oil cooler on top of that. After taking the cooler off, are all the hoses where they should be? If so and unless this coincides with another issue, put the original filter and bolt back in and see what it does. If all other connections check out, my guess is that the "filter upgrade" is the culprit.

Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2013, 10:53:54 AM »
Despite what the manual says, I rarely can put more than 3 qts in. I use even thinner synthetic oil in the wintertime, that has nothing to do with the light coming on. The oil cooler is not needed. The CB 750 is very health and the oil tank on the side works a little like an oil cooler on top of that. After taking the cooler of, are all the hoses where they should be? If so and unless this coincides with another issue, put the original filter and bolt back in and see what it does. If all other connections check out, my guess is that "filter upgrade" is the culprit.

Oh yeah, I meant to say that too.  ;)  I've heard nasty things about those spin on oil filters. Highly suspect. Take it off and see what you can. There may not be anything obvious, but I'd put a OEM style on with  a quality filter and new bolt and see what happens. The bolt has a pressure valve in it, which I don't fully understand but it could be messing up.
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Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2013, 11:05:17 AM »
The P.O. did the conversion so I don't have the original filter. I just got a K&N filter that fit (meant for a Honda car). It was working fine before with the old screw on filter. I think I still have the old filter, I will try that.

The weird thing is that the Oil light goes off when I start the bike up. But after it idles for about 5-10 and warms up it comes on and the ticking starts.

Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2013, 11:14:05 AM »
The P.O. did the conversion so I don't have the original filter. I just got a K&N filter that fit (meant for a Honda car). It was working fine before with the old screw on filter. I think I still have the old filter, I will try that.

The weird thing is that the Oil light goes off when I start the bike up. But after it idles for about 5-10 and warms up it comes on and the ticking starts.
You do have a weird set of symptoms. I am coming from a place of "eliminating the variables. Amt of oil and its viscosity is not the right path in my opinion. The OEM style filter has a pressure relief valve in the central bolt. Spin on filters do too. But if you're not sure of what you have or how it works, my advice is to back up.

Fitting the original filter may be the ticket. It may have all that's needed built in.

Otherwise, I'm sure eBay has original filter parts.

Some may argue the point, I'll just say I've heard bad things about those spin on conversions. Good luck.
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Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2013, 11:24:01 AM »
I'll look into going back to original. What all is involved with that? There is a  'cone' type thing that comes off the block that the filter screws too and I don't really see a way to remove it. I'm sure I can find something on Google but can't hurt to ask.

Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2013, 11:32:19 AM »
I'll look into going back to original. What all is involved with that? There is a  'cone' type thing that comes off the block that the filter screws too and I don't really see a way to remove it. I'm sure I can find something on Google but can't hurt to ask.
The front of the bare case has a large nobbin sticking out with a female thread. IF you don't see any obvious hex heads to wrench on, then its threaded into that nubbin. Grab it and turn lefty loosy.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2013, 11:45:04 AM »
Spin on can filter can have two internal valves.  One is a bypass valve for the event where a the filter media clogs.  This allows unfiltered oil to be circulated in this event.  The bolt for the Honda filter housing performs this function.

Spin on may also have an anti drain back valve, the purpose of which is to hold  oil in the oil galleys when the engine is stopped, rather than draining into the sump.  This is particularly important for engines with hydraulic lifters, to avoid oil starvation during the next start up.

Both these valves can't be examined in the spin on filter with destroying its functionality.  Something you wouldn't do before installation.

Those using spin on type must trust the manufacturer to make each and every unit they produce function as intended, and this includes valve design, valve assembly, and inspection before the can is sealed up.

Some valve designs are better than others. And reliability of the valves can be affected by careless workers when gluing in the valves.

If a bit of glue is dripped in the wrong place, or the valve positioned wrong during assembly, the bypass valve may be stuck open or hindered from full operation, resulting in unfiltered oil being distributed throughout is use.  Engines can run fine with unfiltered oil, although wear factors increase in proportion to the oil's contamination level and particulate type.

If the drain back valve is faulty with errant glue or incorrect assembly, the valve can allow oil pressure to route backwards toward the return line to the filter.  This effects drain back as well as lowering running oil pressure.

Classic car owners discovered their valve trains were noisy when certain filters were used.  When the filter cans were opened, faulty internal valves were often found in certain designs.  When a filter was used with properly functioning internal valves, the engine valve train noise was eliminated.

For spin on filters, you can't tell from the outside what the design or quality is on the inside.  Brands are what you purchase, but the significance is only the paint and logo printed on the outside.  Top name brands can have the cheapest internal parts and assembly costs.

Manufacturing costs are reduced by hiring unskilled labor, and omitting the quality control inspection.  Cheap filters are not the same thing as inexpensive filters.

It's not about the filter media quality.  It's about those internal valves.

For the above discoveries, I don't use spin-on filters on the SOHC4.  I'm just not much of a gambler.
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Offline KJ790

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2013, 12:01:46 PM »
I don't believe it has been mentioned yet, when the oil light comes on look in the oil tank. Is it empty? Is return oil being pumped back into the oil tank? If not then you may have an oil pump issue or the sump screen on the oil pick-up may be clogged.

Another question is how was the oil cooler plumbed into the system? What did you do with the ports that the oil cooler connected to?
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Offline rjbez17

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2013, 12:06:29 PM »
I'll check that tonight. The oil cooler connected by two screws out the bottom of the screw off filter conversion. I plugged them with the extra screws that the P.O. gave me. I will upload some pictures tonight.

Thanks!

Offline KJ790

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Re: CB750k valve ticking after removing an oil cooler
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2013, 12:42:53 PM »
I'll check that tonight. The oil cooler connected by two screws out the bottom of the screw off filter conversion. I plugged them with the extra screws that the P.O. gave me. I will upload some pictures tonight.

Thanks!

You need to find out if this is the correct way to deal with the oil ports for the oil cooler. For an oil cooler to work you have to force the oil out of a port and into the oil cooler, then you have to have a port for the oil to go back into the motor and continue circulating as usual. If you just plug these ports then their may be a break in your oil circulation loop, where the oil just hits a dead end and cannot continue to loop as usual.
The most dangerous part of a motorcycle is the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs.