Topic: Horrifying electrical gremlin?

[Red Good]

You guys saw that his battery when tested  was 12.49 ? That is a stone dead battery . Get a battery . charge it 24 hours on a 1 amp charger and the install it in the bike . When it starts run it up to 2500 rpm and check the voltage at the battery . See what you have then .

[Carver]

... but I could only ground the battery to my shocks, might be because of the powder coating?....

I don't understand... follow the negative wire from your battery - where does it go to?  I can't imagine it goes to your shocks.

Do you have both the negative battery wire to ground (frame) and the green ground wire (to the frame as well) connected to some bare metal on the bike.  If you had the bike powder coated you may need to sand off some of the paint where those two wires connect to.

Can you be more specific about "All those things tested all right"? 

Also, is the bike totally dead when you turn the key switch on? (i.e. no headlight, no blinkers, not indicator lights?)

Edit: regarding the image of the headlight wires... I believe there should be a 5-way black wire connector in there, that's where I was hoping you could check - but I don't see it in the picture.  I could be wrong (as I'm used to my bike which is a 75 750F, but it looks like your missing some wires - or that someone has hacked-up/replaced some wires).  I also noticed there are a lot of disconnected wires - were thay that way before when the bike was running?

I meant that i put the black probe of the multimeter on my frame and engine to try and ground it but it wouldn't give me a voltage reading when I did that. It did give me a reading when I put it on my rear suspension though. What I meant when I said it tested right ( bad choice of words, I was tired) is that I was getting readings of about 12.something volts whenever I tested each thing on the list excluding the frame as mentioned above.

It was running before this yes, I meant to note that Im not running any turn signals, gauges, or dash, so that might explain a few of the un plugged wires. I didn't plug or unplug anything. I kicked it over, it started first kick, ran for a solid minute while i warmed it, then all the electric died. I'm just trying to figure out what could kill all the electric that quick.

[Carver]

You guys saw that his battery when tested  was 12.49 ? That is a stone dead battery . Get a battery . charge it 24 hours on a 1 amp charger and the install it in the bike . When it starts run it up to 2500 rpm and check the voltage at the battery . See what you have then .

Is it? I'll give it a go. because I have nothing else to try at this point other than checking every individual wire. I'm largely ignorant of electrical so I'm trying to learn this as I go. I guess this thread has come full circle at this point. I know the proper voltage is like 12.80 correct? I guess hit the battery and if it works go back to the first proposed thing in this thread: the charging system.

[heffay]

You guys saw that his battery when tested  was 12.49 ? That is a stone dead battery .

You can not make that assumption, 12.5 volts on a battery not under load may or may not be fine.
Voltage measurement is typically not a good test for battery. You have to test it under load.

You also saw that he had it load tested and it checked out, right? 

I would still swap the battery though... it is the easiest step to avoid unnecessary troubleshooting.


Carver,
Instead of just checking points and telling us its fine...  Write down each check point and results, so we can better help you.

[Red Good]

Who load tested it ? Has anyone ever seen a load tester for motorcycle batteries . Traditionally they are auto testers and the guy guesses that it's ok cause it came back up after the test .

I can and will make that assumption and have every day for 30+ years , 12.5 volts is a stone dead battery . It needs charging at the least , after being charged then I will make another decision on whether it is a good battery based on how it responds to tests then . 

1st you need a battery that is fully charged . You don't have one . Cure that before you do anything else . Either charge that one or get a new one . And if you go the new route , charge that one at least 12 hours , I prefer 24 hours on a 1 amp or less charger. No matter what the guy at the store tells you .



Kinda like repeatedly cleaning the carbs on a motor with low compression , pointless .

Red

[TwoTired]

The chart below applies to lead acid batteries with no loads connected to the terminals.
When the key is switched on, the bike should still work (excepting the starter motor) when the system voltage is 10V or higher.

[heffay]

These are typical voltage results from batteries at rest

State-of-Charge   Voltage
100%                   12.7 - 13.2
75%                    12.4
50%                    12.2
25%                    12.0
Discharged           0 - 11.9

http://www.batterystuff.com/blog/how-to-tell-if-your-battery-is-bad.html

3 out of the first 4 results in this search have very similar state-of-charge tables. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=motorcycle+battery+state+of+charge&oq=motorcycle+state+of+charge&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.9339j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

Has anyone ever seen a load tester for motorcycle batteries . Traditionally they are auto testers and the guy guesses that it's ok cause it came back up after the test .

Yes, they make motorcycle battery load testers, they are the same as auto battery testers except smaller load increments for CCAs. 

You have some #$%*ty mechanics where you live if tradition dictates that they are only concerned with voltage after a load test. 

[CB750K4]

I have seen bad/intermittent fuses.  Try a new fuse, just for the heck of it.

[Kickstart]

It was running before this yes, I meant to note that Im not running any turn signals, gauges, or dash, so that might explain a few of the un plugged wires. I didn't plug or unplug anything. I kicked it over, it started first kick, ran for a solid minute while i warmed it, then all the electric died. I'm just trying to figure out what could kill all the electric that quick.

Ah... so when you say "all the electric died" do you really mean everything - horn, brake light, etc.?

I meant that i put the black probe of the multimeter on my frame and engine to try and ground it but it wouldn't give me a voltage reading when I did that.

Do it again, but this time touch the black probe to one of the engine cover screws (dig it in there a little).
Make sure you see the same voltage between the positive battery terminal and frame/engine ground as you do between the positive and negative terminals on the battery. If you don't get a voltage reading then you have a problem with the way the battery or fame is grounded.

[MoMo]

12.5v is not a stone dead battery-you should have lights and be able to kick start with that reading-see TT's chart. Everything you describe is indicative of either a bad ground or connection on the main feed(red wire).  Could you post a photo of where the battery grounds to the frame? ...Larry

[Carver]

12.5v is not a stone dead battery-you should have lights and be able to kick start with that reading-see TT's chart. Everything you describe is indicative of either a bad ground or connection on the main feed(red wire).  Could you post a photo of where the battery grounds to the frame? ...Larry

Alright, black probe to negative terminal, red probe on engine case bolt, 12.49 volts, heres a picture of the ground. To test my whole ignition circuit I just ground the black probe and touch the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the connectors?

[Kickstart]

Alright, black probe to negative terminal, red probe on engine case bolt, 12.49 volts, heres a picture of the ground. To test my whole ignition circuit I just ground the black probe and touch the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the connectors?

Wait... do you mean red probe on the positive terminal and the black probe on the engine case? 
If what you typed is what you really did, then you have a grounding problem.  There should be no voltage difference between negative terminal and the engine case.

Unbolt the ground wire and make sure there is clean metal on the frame for it to connect to.

[Carver]

Alright, black probe to negative terminal, red probe on engine case bolt, 12.49 volts, heres a picture of the ground. To test my whole ignition circuit I just ground the black probe and touch the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the connectors?

Wait... do you mean red probe on the positive terminal and the black probe on the engine case? 
If what you typed is what you really did, then you have a grounding problem.  There should be no voltage difference between negative terminal and the engine case.

Unbolt the ground wire and make sure there is clean metal on the frame for it to connect to.

nononono, red probe on the case bolt, black probe on the negative terminal. Since I got a reading of 12.49, the same as battery, I think that means it's ground, correct?

which is why I was asking about the method of testing the ignition. Black probe on negative terminal and then the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the little connectors running to the electrical panel to see if theres any faulty connections.

EDIT: Man I warned you guys I was bad with electrical so I guess i had this coming eventually. thanks for being so patient.

[Kickstart]

Alright, black probe to negative terminal, red probe on engine case bolt, 12.49 volts, heres a picture of the ground. To test my whole ignition circuit I just ground the black probe and touch the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the connectors?

Wait... do you mean red probe on the positive terminal and the black probe on the engine case? 
If what you typed is what you really did, then you have a grounding problem.  There should be no voltage difference between negative terminal and the engine case.

Unbolt the ground wire and make sure there is clean metal on the frame for it to connect to.

nononono, red probe on the case bolt, black probe on the negative terminal. Since I got a reading of 12.49, the same as battery, I think that means it's ground, correct?

which is why I was asking about the method of testing the ignition. Black probe on negative terminal and then the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the little connectors running to the electrical panel to see if theres any faulty connections.

EDIT: Man I warned you guys I was bad with electrical so I guess i had this coming eventually. thanks for being so patient.

You're suppose to put the red probe on the positive terminal and the black probe on the case bolt. 

I think you have grounding problem.  Make sure you frame ground is has a nice clean connection to bare metal.  I think this is the issue.

[Carver]

Alright, black probe to negative terminal, red probe on engine case bolt, 12.49 volts, heres a picture of the ground. To test my whole ignition circuit I just ground the black probe and touch the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the connectors?

Wait... do you mean red probe on the positive terminal and the black probe on the engine case? 
If what you typed is what you really did, then you have a grounding problem.  There should be no voltage difference between negative terminal and the engine case.

Unbolt the ground wire and make sure there is clean metal on the frame for it to connect to.

nononono, red probe on the case bolt, black probe on the negative terminal. Since I got a reading of 12.49, the same as battery, I think that means it's ground, correct?

which is why I was asking about the method of testing the ignition. Black probe on negative terminal and then the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the little connectors running to the electrical panel to see if theres any faulty connections.

EDIT: Man I warned you guys I was bad with electrical so I guess i had this coming eventually. thanks for being so patient.

You're suppose to put the red probe on the positive terminal and the black probe on the case bolt. 

I think you have grounding problem.  Make sure you frame ground is has a nice clean connection to bare metal.  I think this is the issue.

Ah, so I did it back asswards. story of my life. I'll report back in a few to let you know how it goes.

[MoMo]

12.5v is not a stone dead battery-you should have lights and be able to kick start with that reading-see TT's chart. Everything you describe is indicative of either a bad ground or connection on the main feed(red wire).  Could you post a photo of where the battery grounds to the frame? ...Larry

Alright, black probe to negative terminal, red probe on engine case bolt, 12.49 volts, heres a picture of the ground. To test my whole ignition circuit I just ground the black probe and touch the red probe to where the red wire enters/exits the connectors?

That ground does not look good, remove the cable and clean the cable end and frame contact point. I am having trouble following your test methodology.  Check that ground please...Larry

[TwoTired]

Voltmeters measure potential.  And the battery Neg terminal, the frame, and engine case must all be the same potential, and quite differentiated from the battery POS terminal.

If you are measuring voltage between the frame, engine case and battery NEG terminal, they are NOT connected together as they must be.

[Kickstart]

So far, it sounds like you have a grounding problem.  I'm more familiar with the 75/76 CB750F model, so I'm not 100% where the grounding wires are located on the K3.

Assuming they're similar to my recently purchased K2, I've attached a picture showing both grounding wires. You need to make sure both of these connections have nice clean metal to contact on the frame.
Please ignore the ugly wire-tie stuff the PO did

If the frame was recently powder coated, there is a good chance they painted over these spots which should have been left with some bare metal exposed.  You will probably have to sand this down to bare metal.

Use some Vaseline or electrical connection grease while you're at it to keep it from corroding.

[Carver]

Ding ding ding, it was the ground!

[Carver]

This thread could be half the length if I learned how to use the multimeter properly

[Kickstart]

Awesome! 

I'm glad we were able to help you out.

I was actually thinking about this at work today... "must get Carver's bike running"
No worries about being a multimeter novice... I enjoyed helping troubleshoot.

[Carver]

Tune in next week where I regale you with the story of how I thought I had to do a carb rebuild on my 450 because I was using the choke backwards and spend about a week and a half "fixing" it.

[MoMo]

Tune in next week where I regale you with the story of how I thought I had to do a carb rebuild on my 450 because I was using the choke backwards and spend about a week and a half "fixing" it.

I've seen that story,   glad you got it fixed...Larry