Author Topic: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!  (Read 7490 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2014, 06:25:20 PM »
Quote
Honestly never felt like I needed a steering dampner on a 750....
Ofcourse not. Honda would have fitted one. One would have expected compelling laws. Never heard of any so far.

Wrong, my friend, do you insure your bikes...?   A steering damper is an insurance policy, I have had a couple of underwear changing tank slappers on a very well sorted K2 {for the time}, one caused by a small pot hole and the second worse one was just a crossing a thick painted center line on the road while overtaking at speed, that one very nearly threw me and bruised  my hands, it was very violent, actually while i think of it I have had 2 others on friends bikes as well, one on a H2750 Kawasaki {after the front wheel came down  :o} and another on a GT550 Suzuki {ended up in a reserve on the side of the road}, both know for their less than graceful  handling. My point is, think yourself lucky you haven't had one and maybe be a little more open minded as to why the dampers are a good thing to add on old bikes, Most if not all modern sport bikes have them as standard, also the K model Honda's had relatively small trail numbers at the front, around 3.7? inches, which even by todays standards makes for a nervous front end {most sport bikes are around 4 inches of trail}. The K2 i spoke about earlier received a damper after the second tank slapper and never misbehaved again, it was well set up and ridden hard, I've had dampers on every other 750/4 i've owned and will continue to use them... ;) The old black NHK z900 steering dampers were what i used ...
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,100
  • I refuse...
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2014, 06:57:30 PM »
I'm sold, Retro. I'll be adding them to my 550 and my 500. I've never had a slipper before, but, your logic of insurance is too persuasive to think experience alone is the solution.

Appreciate the indirect sage advice.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline edwardmorris

  • Youngish
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,142
  • Do not cause harm, nor respond to harm with harm.
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2014, 07:13:53 PM »
I agree about the roads digger, I live in Indiana but I work downtown most of the time so I know that IL has $hit for roads, full of $hitholes. You (or anyone anywhere in the US) should report that pothole at www.roadhazard.org, the MSF lawyers will get the local authority to fix it, I know from experience.

They were doing some roadwork on Lakeshore drive up by Roosevelt, and they dug up the entire width of the north bound LSD. Then, they made it worse by dumping concrete and tar to fill it up, effectively making it an axle destroying speed bump. I reported it to roadhazard and two days later it was leveled! Amazing.

Offline 750K

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,392
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2014, 07:42:08 PM »
750K, Which dampener did you get? Did you use their clamp on the frame? Dan

I used damper ODM2000, Stroke=120mm. Total Length=360mm, $125.00. As well as their billet clamps on the fork and frame tubes, I went with both frame and fork clamps so I could totally adjust the angle and position of the damper. ODM3110E might have been a bit of a better fit in overall length but for $30 less I went with the longer & cheaper of the two. You could easily just use the threaded hole on the bottom tree and a frame clamp but I like the adjustability of having both clamps, made it easier to mount things.

I mounted the damper from the right fork leg to the left side frame tube so I can adjust it while I'm riding, if you mount it on the right side fork leg to frame tube you have to either leave it set or let go of the throttle to click it up or down a notch. I find I'm at notch 1-2 in town and never get past the 4th click on the highway, I love it. Before the first ride I put the damper on before I rode to work, big change in steering. Before I left work I installed the fork brace, huge difference with just the damper but even more so with the brace and damper.
77 Cb750, 78 Kz1000

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2014, 08:17:18 PM »
I'm sold, Retro. I'll be adding them to my 550 and my 500. I've never had a slipper before, but, your logic of insurance is too persuasive to think experience alone is the solution.

Appreciate the indirect sage advice.

Like Terry said, there is already a hole on the underside of the bottom triple clamp for it to mount..  tank slappers can be caused by a lot of things , a lot with poor tire fitment, bad bearings both in the wheel or the steering head {amongst other things} but also, tank slappers are the work of resonant frequency, sometimes all it takes for one to start is a small bump in the road, if the planets have all aligned at the same time, off it goes, you'll never know just how bad they can be until you've experienced one. Try typing "tank slapper" into you tube and sit back and watch.    ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline SOHC Digger

  • I'm not an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,171
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2014, 08:31:44 PM »
My dampener is bolted to the threaded hole in the lower tree. Other end is bolted to my coil bracket on the frame.

Offline 750K

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,392
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2014, 08:46:18 PM »
Pics of my setup are on page 10 of this old thread,

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=90969.225
77 Cb750, 78 Kz1000

Offline jerry h

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2014, 08:50:52 PM »
Never been in this situation, but question for those that have.  What if anything did you do to get out of a TS?   I've read somewhere to lean forward, or give it throttle to raise the front end, but guessing most times there's not much you can do until the bike rights itself......????
"It is not the critic who counts, the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose hands are covered with grease and oil."

K2 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,105097.0.html

Offline SOHC Digger

  • I'm not an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,171
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2014, 09:58:37 PM »
I've always heard give it more throttle.

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,173
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2014, 11:06:00 PM »
Quote
Actually, Honda offered one as an option mate, and even provided a threaded hole on the lower triple for the installation. They just cheaped out and didn't fit them as standard
I know of the threaded hole. There's one on my 500 too. My understanding was that Honda offered the hole to offer the possibility to mount a damper for if people had changed other things, just the hole. I have no knowledge of a Honda steering dampener for our bikes but I'll do a search. Strange that my dealer was so confident our 500s didn't need a dampener and I still wonder why there's no legislation where almost everything else concerning safety is subject to regulations.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 09:17:46 AM by Deltarider »
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,363
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2014, 11:26:11 PM »
Quote
Actually, Honda offered one as an option mate, and even provided a threaded hole on the lower triple for the installation. They just cheaped out and didn't fit them as standard
I know of the threaded hole. There's one on my 500 too. My conception was that Honda offered the hole to offer the possibility to mount a damper for if people had changed other things, just the hole. I have no knowledge of a Honda steering dampener for our bikes but I'll do a search. Strange that my dealer was so confident our 500s didn't need a dampener and I still wonder why there's no legislation where almost everything else concerning safety is subject for regulations.


I've got one of the old Honda steering dampers in a box out in my garage, but I never installed it on any of my bikes because it's missing the bracket that mounts to the frame.

They were a standard non-adjustable damper with a rubber sleeve that covered the shaft, and were used on several Honda models of the era, I think they were standard on the CL series bikes?

When the CB750 first came out, Honda had to keep the costs down to keep them competetive with the market, so steering dampers, twin front disc conversion kits, oil coolers etc were available, but only as optional extra's. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,386
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2014, 11:47:27 PM »
Notice the damper in the pic of the first test bikes. Like Terry said a while back, Honda cheaped out, just like with the dual front brakes: mounting provisions were made from the very beginning, but weren't utilized, apparently to keep costs down.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,363
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2014, 12:04:38 AM »
Yep, mine's the same as that one Scott. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,386
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2014, 12:11:56 AM »
I went through a #$%* all of a tank-slapper once on my CB, Terry, and I hope I never go though another. :o :o :o
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,363
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2014, 12:31:25 AM »
Ha ha, yeah mate, I had a few on bikes "back in the day", but I can't remember any in recent years, apart from on my old BMW R100RS that was fitted with a damper as standard, but when I pulled the damper off when I swapped the fairing for an R90S model, I discovered that the damper was stuffed, so I couldn't really blame it, that bike had done a couple of hundred thousand miles. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline mickwinf

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 67
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2014, 03:08:48 AM »
A friend of mine had a major crash in the 70s on his 750 k6, just after he fitted a handlebar fairing, he got into a terrible tankslapper after hitting some bumps, I was behind him and it was very scary to watch, he flew one way and his bike went the other, bike smashed to pieces, him bad but survived. It was thought at the time that these small fairings caused instability but who knows? He rebuilt it into a seeley frame, and fitted a steering damper!

Offline brewsky

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,110
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2014, 03:34:18 AM »
Notice the damper in the pic of the first test bikes. Like Terry said a while back, Honda cheaped out, just like with the dual front brakes: mounting provisions were made from the very beginning, but weren't utilized, apparently to keep costs down.
What carbs are on the bike in that photo?
66 CA77
78 550K
78 CB750K
02 FZ1
09 GL 1800

Offline SOHC Digger

  • I'm not an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,171
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2014, 03:45:20 AM »
My dad had built this KZ1000 chop back in the early 80's. He had a bad wreck that destroyed the bike and put him in the hospital.


He still won't talk about exactly what happened, but the next bike he built was almost identical to the one that he wrecked, but he installed a dampener on this one... Hmmmm...

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,716
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2014, 04:30:23 AM »
Steering damper is a must on these famous wobblers.
I have the basic one attached into the lower triple tree. There is an M8 hole there. Other side clamped into the frame with a standard exhaust pipe clamp, 35mm.
Make huge difference.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2014, 04:54:46 AM »
Never been in this situation, but question for those that have.  What if anything did you do to get out of a TS?   I've read somewhere to lean forward, or give it throttle to raise the front end, but guessing most times there's not much you can do until the bike rights itself......????

I don't know if it was the right thing to do but i only used the rear brake to slow down and it worked, i didn't want to touch a thing but the handlebars while it was happening, the one on the GT550, i just backed off and rode it out, ended up going off the side of the road into a park... :o I was quite young then and it scared the sh1t out of me...
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Bailgang

  • Scott
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,705
  • Indiana
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2014, 05:29:22 AM »
Never been in this situation, but question for those that have.  What if anything did you do to get out of a TS?   I've read somewhere to lean forward, or give it throttle to raise the front end, but guessing most times there's not much you can do until the bike rights itself......????

My nephew is a shop manager for a Honda shop and an avid sport bike rider and I asked him the same question, he told me to give the bike full throttle then gently back off the throttle, I guess the idea is that giving it full throttle helps to pull the weight off the front end giving it time to calm down. He claims that applying the brakes just shifts more weight to the forks thus possibly making it worse. But I guess that all depends on the situation as in can you even have enough control to keep your hands on the bars in the first place to give it more throttle or do you have enough room ahead of you?

At the same time though I've read else where that giving it full throttle is a big nono and gently applying the brakes is the thing to do. Either way I hope I never have to find out.
Scott


71 cb350 twin
77 cb750 F2
83 gl1100 Interstate

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,716
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2014, 06:13:54 AM »
It depends on the kind of wobble.
I have got fork wobble in rather high speed, 100-110mph. Releasing the throttle was not good back then, made it mostly worse. Better to have more power left to twist with throttle.
Sometimes used the clutch and just rolled until it stopped wobbling.
I saved my self sometimes by just straighten the bike up if it happened in a corner, brake very hard and through the bike down into the corner again. I had been in situations were I was thinking about abandon the unstable ship by jumping off.

Long fork like 6" longer made everything worse. Forget tighten the shock nuts not good either... horrible wobble ::)

Important that all bolts are tightened, fork has correct pretension and amount of oil. I always got a controlled wobble at 110mph after I had installed progressive fork springs, 1990.
Not this year when I have removed the 1" long plastic tubes for spring pretension, it get pretension with the fork nuts. Plus 140mm oil level from top with collapsed fork without springs.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,173
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2014, 06:53:50 AM »
Quote
In over 100.000 kms I have never experienced even the beginning of a speed wobble
. Had more of a slow speedweave however when over 160 km/h. Not much to worry about. Nose between the meters solved it.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 07:08:28 AM by Deltarider »
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline Dream750

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 583
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2014, 08:32:25 AM »
Seen this on Triumph Rat: 

1. The “tank slapper” is a very frightening experience. Usually occurring when accelerating hard over bumpy pavement, a tank slapper ensues when the front tyre becomes airborne, then regains traction outside the rear tyre’s alignment. The resulting deflection bounces the tyre off to one side, followed by another bounce in the opposite direction as it contacts the pavement again. Unless the bike’s steering geometry is able to damp out the deflections quickly, the resulting oscillations from the front tyre as it bounces back and forth will swiftly gain in strength, causing the bars to swap from side to side with increasing ferocity. The oscillations can be violent enough to rip the bars out of your hands, and fling your feet off the pegs. You can guess what happens next.

2. The easy cure for this problem is a steering damper. Many sports bikes now come stock with one, as the radical steering geometry needed for quick handling can otherwise cause some instability in certain situations. While a steering damper is an easy fix, it shouldn’t be a cure-all; if you’re forced to adjust the steering damper’s stiffness (if available) until you can barely turn the bars in order to keep the bike’s handling stable, there is a problem somewhere in your chassis setup. A too-stiff steering damper can also cause handling problems by itself; if your steering damper is adjustable, and you find that your bike won’t hold a line (especially in slower corners), or gets into a small wobble or oscillation in high speed corners, try backing off the stiffness a little and see if it helps.

3. Not all bikes need a steering damper, however. Many have steering geometry setups that offer quick handling, while still providing the necessary stability to damp out any front-end oscillations. In most cases, one of the biggest contributors to a tank slapper is your body positioning and grip on the bars. Some people ride in a more upright position when carving corners, but when accelerating over bumpy pavement, that upright body position puts even more weight transfer to the rear, which causes the front end to get lighter. Also, the more upright torso means that your grip on the bars is tighter in order to stabilize your upper body. That firmer grip feeds more input into the front end, something it doesn’t need while it’s busy trying to damp out the inputs from the bouncing front tyre. It actually forms a vicious circle: you grip the bars tighter because they’re starting to flap back and forth, but that only feeds more input into the front end, compounding the problem further.

4. The easiest way to avoid tank slappers while accelerating over bumpy pavement is to—believe it or not—keep a relaxed grip on the bars. Relaxing your grip on the bars means you must lean forward in order to assist in keeping your torso stabilized. This helps put more weight on the front end, which keeps the front tyre on the pavement. Since you’re not using your arms to stabilize your upper body, get your weight onto the foot pegs so that you can get your body as far forward as possible; this also allows you to grip the tank with your knees for more stability.

If you do get into a tank slapper, keep your weight forward and—as hard as this sounds—maintain a relaxed grip on the bars. Let the motorcycle’s chassis deal with damping out the oscillations. Don’t try to be a human steering damper; you’ll only make the problem worse. Tank slappers can definitely soil your undies; but if you’re able to deal with them correctly, you’ll usually ride through them before you know it.

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,716
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: My steering dampener saved my life tonight!
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2014, 11:38:28 AM »
Dream750: I think I know what you mean. It's a very abrupt and sudden experience.
Bouncing bike is not nice! I got that during the +6" fork era rather often, especially with Continental K112 tire that had good grip until it was lost by huge bouncing, really crap and dangerous tire. Avon Roadrunner rear lost grip much earlier and with controlled slide, a little bit too early and too much.

Best was Metzeler ME99, perfect grip and wonderful loss of grip when forcing the bikes handling without bouncing around on all lanes, wrong one included.

Friends behind me in a car were shocked to see me in front of them in a corner when I twisted the throttle and the bike bounced like a rabbit. For me normal... like a rodeo horse guy:) It even look worse for people viewing and for me on the bike.
The girl was shocked and still crying at the coffee stop a few minutes later. She was sure that I should crash.
I'm sure that I'm still alive when not using brakes that much. My bike had never had any brakes to rely on anyway.

When the steering damper is there, do not forget to set it back to stiffer mode if released it to make handling easier in very low speed. I have forgotten that,bad surprise. I usually had and still have it in stiffest mode.

I have to test bike more now when the speedo wire is replaced, shock springs one step softer. Next check air pressure in shocks and make high speed test if easy wobble or not. The bike feels rather stable this year. >25 kg + can be one reason?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 11:44:14 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967