Topic: gun massacre

[calj737]

News flash for you Duke, it is legal in the US and protected at the Federal level.

[70CB750]

Very clever.  Is it your own?

[70CB750]

I said it earlier, mass shootings are mostly done by liberals, or at least by people who vote democrats.  They take a fetus as a "thing" they have the right to dispose of as they please and human being is for them another "thing". 

WOW. Come on people this was a quite constructive thread, blatantly stupid posts like this one above do absolutely nothing for anyones point of view. Sorry Prokop, but mate....that wasn't very good. You made the point clear that you came from a far worse experience in your home country to the United States, you obviously went forward from your situation, I find myself in a  safer country here so in my experience it would be like going backwards for me {conflicting points of view already}, just because your situation has improved doesn't mean its better than mine or anyone else's here, also singling out a whole base of people, Liberals as the problem is only shoving your political beliefs down everyones throat and not needed, i would say that that was a typical right wing comment based on nothing as was your "fetus" comment, how about "people" for a label, thats the problem with society these days, its been divided up into competing factions by our wonderfully inept politicians, thats what they want, we are all just people, working to a common cause would be far more productive than pursuing selfish ideals.... Lets keep this constructive and on track for once...

Good work Cal for trying to keep this rational and on track.......

I did not blame it on liberals, I stated that it is more common for mass shooters to be liberals than right wingers.  Even though the mass media in USA is more often than not trying to pin any shooting on NRA, republicans - you name it.  How is that for labeling?

I believe that if you value life, you are not selective about it - and abortion is killing just the same as any other killing.

You want to know what i think, Politics has sweet fcuk all to do with it, people kill people. How about , rich republicans don't kill anyone, they pay others to do it..? I think its pretty unreasonable to bring abortion into this, for a start, what makes you think you can yell from the tree tops pro choice {i want my guns and less restrictive laws} then wanting to take choice away from someone that has just as much right to make their own choice, what a mess we would be in if every fetus produced was born, look at Africa and welcome to your future, do you think raped women should no abort...?, too much hypocrisy in this world, its not about choice, its all about selfishness, as in "i'll do whatever i fcuking want"... Virtually no one cares about anyone else but everyone has an opinion...

Of course they want a say in what happens in a female's uterus with no say from her.

I'll put it as simple as possible about the abortion thing- IF IT WAS A MALE PHYSICALLY CARRYING THE BABY ABORTION WOULD BE LEGAL, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Next...

Very clever.  Is it your own?

[Duke McDukiedook]

Is that how you answer a serious statement about an issue that you brought up out of the blue?
With a #$%*ing joke?!?!
You are pathetic man.

[70CB750]

Yes.  Serious statement hardly starts with IF.

[demon78]

You know I wonder if the gun thing is tied together with the win at all costs syndrome I remember when if you fought the good fight and lost gracefully you were admired, but there seemed to come a time where that attitude went away and civility diminished ( there was a time that you never heard a victor gloat that they'd crushed their opponent) and there seemed be a rise in gun culture/crime (not sure if it's crime I want) as if a bigger gun ensured made up for a multitude of failings. Just a thought, and yes the demon is trying to come up with a reasonable solution.
Bill the demon.

[calj737]

There is little doubt that many believe there's a strong movement in the US towards the "wussification" of our children. No losers, no winners, men being emasculated by society. Kids can't play with toys that resemble "weapons". It's all quite over the top in my eyes.

One thing we've done quite differently in our home; our kids were never allowed to play with toys that closely resembled "guns" because we have real guns. A strict policy to not permit them to make any association between fantasy and reality where a gun or knife is concerned. Even further, we forbid them from participating in neighborhood games where the kids use "air soft" guns to shoot at each other. Yes, it's pretty safe, but it's the mentality we fear where kids might disassociate the dangers from their play toys.

Oddly, those same parents who permit their kids to play with these toys, are deathly afraid of the real things and shudder when we discuss our usage and training in them. We liken it to the European model of alcohol: introduce it early with responsibility and you take away the mystique. But it all boils back to active parenting in the lives of our kids.

[demon78]

Yes I to have wondered about the airsoft fad seems to me that's carrying it a bit far, but I think it's the decline of civility, that's more important, the glorification of brutality and sadism that feed into the gun thing. Any how back to weeding.
Bill the demon.

[70CB750]

Yes I to have wondered about the airsoft fad seems to me that's carrying it a bit far, but I think it's the decline of civility, that's more important, the glorification of brutality and sadism that feed into the gun thing. Any how back to weeding.
Bill the demon.

But you are not weeding with brutality and sadism, are you? 

[demon78]

Of course, I'm weeding with civility I always say please don't grow here so I don't have to harm you.
Bill the demon.

[ekpent]

Of course, I'm weeding with civility I always say please don't grow here so I don't have to harm you.
Bill the demon.

The politically correct thing would be to transplant them in a nice integrated area, feed them well with fertilizer and give them much words of encouragement.

[demon78]

But I do encourage them, Turn the soil over, remove the weak you know every thing a weed loves.
Bill the demon.

[bikerbart]

After living and dealing with one of the most violent cities in America, I moved my wife and son to Canada. My nephew was shot point blank in the chest by his 'Buddy' who was a showoff with a gun. He died. I myself had to pull my weapon several times in the past, and each time I did , I was on the phone with the cops and informing them of my situation. Why is it most civilized countries do not have this problem ? 'Murica, Hoo Rah ! You can have it.

[calj737]

Truly sad to hear about your nephew, Bart. Deepest condolences.

You indicated you "pulled your weapon several times". Under what circumstances would you feel appropriate to pull a weapon and not use it? I'm not attempting to pick a fight, but therein lies a significant discrepancy in the doctrine of the use of deadly force. If you pull it, your best use it. If you don't truly need to pull it, then it best remained holstered.

A few days ago, a retired Vet, I believe in TX, intervened in a theft of game store. Upon the second of two robbers leaving the store, the marine, armed with a weapon, confronted the robbers. A shooting occurred and one suspect is dead.

This is completely wrong by my account. Private citizens have no business in brandishing a weapon ala Law Enforcement to prevent or suspend a robbery. Even threatening behaviour does not justify the presentation of a weapon.

At the end of the day, I'm delighted you escaped unharmed personally, and do send my sincerest condolences to your extended family. 

[MCRider]

Reason/authority for pulling a weapon without immediate need to shoot: "to prevent or suspend a robbery" or for many other reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest

Just saying...

[calj737]

MC - do read the description closely:
<<A person who makes a citizen's arrest could risk exposing him or herself to possible lawsuits or criminal charges – such as charges of impersonating a police officer, false imprisonment, unlawful restraint, kidnapping, or wrongful arrest – if the wrong person is apprehended or a suspect's civil rights are violated.>>

I don't know your familiarity with Concealed Carry, and it does differ by State, but where I am (VA) the use or presentation of deadly force is limited very specifically to prevent the immediate harm to innocent victims and can not be used in the presence of further information that belies the intent of the assailant.

What this means, is that if I were to come downstairs in my home in the middle of the night and find someone carrying my TV, I could NOT lawfully shoot them. I can also NOT lawfully detain them until the police arrive with any weapon, whatsoever.

Further, any participation in "road rage" or other escalating behaviour, immediately vacates your authority to use deadly force. Regardless of whether or not once the scuffle ensued, the other person pulled a weapon. The law here is VERY clear. It is designed restrictively to prevent private citizens from performing as law enforcement officers.

Lastly, a "Citizens Arrest" is a bit of an outdated misnomer. Most states, no longer have that provision. You can not lawfully detain a suspect until police arrive, unless, that person is actively engaged in dangerous behavior. You do not need to use deadly force to do so, and if you do, you'd best be prepared to also be arrested, maybe cleared, maybe not.

I would not rely upon Wiki for legal guidance. Just as you should not take my posting as verbatim legal advice.

[MCRider]

I did read all of the disclaimers and warnings and higher standards etc. Pulling a gun is a serious matter, and in most cases best left undone. Waiving a gun is intimidation. Pointing a gun without justification is a crime.

I'm just saying the right and authority to do so does exist, subject to rstirctions per state.

No argument with the Road Rage. It does not generally rise to the standard necessary to pull a gun. (Commission of a felony).

I wouldn't go as far as say Citizens Arrest is outdated. It is what it is, legally defined and gives authority. Just as you describe.

I just recently took 2 courses on concealed carry in Indiana, and Citizens Arrest was covered. So, I am an expert. 

[70CB750]

Friend of mine, now 80 or so,  with 3 tours in Vietnam was approached for carjack at the local gas station in Warrenton.   Luckily he had a Glock to present and he kept his car.  In situation like that, I don't consider it over excessive to stand your ground.

[Roach Carver]

I live in the country. If I were to call police and wait for them to intervene it would likely be "at least" 15 min for them to get there. If there is someone with the balls to break into my house at night I am going to assume that the individual has the means and possible intent to hurt me and my family.

[calj737]

My situation is no different than yours, Roach. Only distinction is if he has property in his hands upon discovery, law here prevents me from protecting property with deadly force. Quite rightly I think too.

Let's just hope neither of us are ever confronted with having to make that decision.

[MCRider]

My situation is no different than yours, Roach. Only distinction is if he has property in his hands upon discovery, law here prevents me from protecting property with deadly force. Quite rightly I think too.

Let's just hope neither of us are ever confronted with having to make that decision.

I think that's fairly universal. "Reasonable force." But if there's only one witness (left, that is) who's to say...

But really, let's hope.

[bikerbart]

Crackheads and drug addicts trying to force their way into my home , more than once. So, I called the cops and put my weapon in their face and told em , They all left quickly. Does that suffice. I have been a victim of crime a lot, I just got tired of it. When my wife showed me the 'BAD' part of town in Vancouver, I laughed. The Zombies ( drug addicts ) only want your change, they wont hurt you. I made my decision when she asked if we could move back home ( wife's home ) I said hell yeah, vancouver is awesome (if you can afford it ) Also, My military training and war kind of got me tired of guns.

[bikerbart]

I would always defend myself  , but property, TV's , cell phone's etc. , Is not worth a life in my opinion . I choose not to put myself in that kind of situation anymore. When you are poor ( as I was financially most my life ) you have no choice but to live among the criminal's drug addicts etc.  You live and learn .

[Roach Carver]

If all a person wanted was my tv I would be "happy" for them to take it and go. I don't think it would occur to me to pour hot lead into their back. I hope I never have the situation present itself where I have to determine whether I or my family is in danger of harm.

[demon78]

Bikerbart how are finding my old home town?  Used to love it, but haven't been back since 1963 and it was like any place, depended where you went and you learned early you didn't #$%* with the Tongs under any circumstances ( they ate stupid anglos/white boys for snacks.
Bill the demon.