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Author Topic: Where's my 5th gear? SOLVED!!!  (Read 22295 times)

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Offline flybox1

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Where's my 5th gear? SOLVED!!!
« on: June 20, 2014, 09:55:17 AM »
CB750F3 rebuilt. Unable to find 5th gear while riding  :-[    I shift and there's nothing there.
Doesn't clunk, grind or make any sound.  Nothing.  Just like when you go looking for 6th ;D
Shift drum, forks, and dogs in excellent shape during inspection/rebuild. 
Birdcage correct, and I can shift through all the gears, and even find 5th when the bike is on the center stand, and i'm gently rotating the rear wheel.
Took shifter cover off last weekend to verify everything was in its correct place.  All good.  Test shifted through the gears with the cover off as well.  Again...worked fine with some wheel turning.  I can provide other pictures if they'd be helpful.
Thanks for your input!



« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 01:52:44 PM by flybox1 »
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 02:56:31 PM »
bump...anyone? ???
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2014, 03:53:48 PM »
Interesting mate, free bump.... ;)
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Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2014, 06:39:45 PM »
Did 5th work when you first finished the rebuild, then quit working, or did it never work?
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2014, 07:07:00 PM »
I've never been able to get it to engage while riding.  There's only engagement when the bike is on the center stand.
Just ran thru the gears in the garage...engine cold, my kid hand shifted thru them and got to 5th. Even with a light shift, I'm not finding and getting stuck in a false neutral.
I'll ride out in the am and run thru it again, but I'm totally stumped.
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2014, 07:16:54 PM »
Try leaning the bike in either direction while on the center stand. BE CAREFUL!
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2014, 07:17:58 PM »
Quote from: scottly on June 20, 2014, 07:16:54 PM
Try leaning the bike in either direction while on the center stand. BE CAREFUL!
OK...what am I looking for?  :P
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2014, 07:20:09 PM »
Hey, didn't that gal in Canada have a similar problem with an F a while back? Wohali or something??
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Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2014, 07:25:21 PM »
Quote from: flybox1 on June 20, 2014, 07:17:58 PM
Quote from: scottly on June 20, 2014, 07:16:54 PM
Try leaning the bike in either direction while on the center stand. BE CAREFUL!
OK...what am I looking for?  :P
If it engages when leaning one direction but not the other, it may mean a snap ring on the transmission shaft is not seated in it's groove, or the gears were not assembled on the shaft correctly.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2014, 07:43:04 PM »
OK...i'll need to get a hand with that test in the am.  Scares me that I might have something out of order.  I was meticulous....
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2014, 08:19:10 PM »
Thanks Scottly...i read thru Wohalis build thread and she did have her 5th on backwards...PM'd her.
In looking at my photos...this one is exactly how I put my upper case together, and it matches the photo in HondaMans book with the gears in the upper case. Page IC-10
 
Maybe you guys can see something I'm missing....
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2014, 08:28:28 PM »
The caution is about leaning the bike over; I was checking the oil on my thumper a couple of days ago, and while pulling the bike upright off the side-stand, I pulled it too far, and it fell over on me, pinning me to the ground. :o Somewhat reminiscent of the incident 30 years ago when a K7 pinned me, due to improperly installed transmission snap rings, apparently from the factory. Thankfully, this time I had a cell phone, and was able to call a neighbor who came to my rescue.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2014, 11:41:36 AM »
Still no 5th engagement.
Could it be that I'm finding a false neutral and I need some clutch adjustment?

...the bike sounds great and rips in all other gears.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:49:48 AM by flybox1 »
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline Henning

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2014, 03:01:13 PM »
Interesting. What about finding a really steep hill, rocking it into "fifth" and setting off. That way you can confirm that the fifth you're finding on the center stand is really fifth and not fourth or something else.
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Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2014, 07:16:19 PM »
Quote from: flybox1 on June 21, 2014, 11:41:36 AM
Still no 5th engagement.
Could it be that I'm finding a false neutral and I need some clutch adjustment?

Sorry, but you know that's just wishful thinking. ;) The shifting mechanism looks correct, and since the other gears shift normally, it can't be a clutch issue.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2014, 07:26:33 PM »
Haha...Fk  :P
I know of a few good hills ;D
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2014, 07:34:50 PM »
About all you can do is pull the shifter cover and verify it's all working properly, and the shift drum isn't moving side to side from an improperly installed neutral switch. Those are the only things that don't require splitting the cases, as far as I know. :(
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2014, 07:43:27 PM »
Hmmm. Neutral switch  :-\  kinda hard to install that one improperly, but my neutral light is always on.   Figured it was bad.  Actually got my new switch in the mail today.  I'll put my new one in before I head out.....
How would an improperly installed switch prevent the drum from getting to 5th?

Scottly....appreciate your help, buddy.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 07:45:29 PM by flybox1 »
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2014, 07:49:13 PM »
WhooHoo!! The neutral switch is what locates the shift drum laterally; there is a boss that extends up into a groove in the drum. If the neutral light is always on, it's an indication the switch isn't fully seated!!
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2014, 07:54:32 PM »
Looks fully seated to me.... :-[

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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2014, 08:01:10 PM »
I see a bit of a gap, and I don't see the retaining bit that I recall from memory? Hope it's as simple as the switch!!!
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2014, 08:05:56 PM »
Thanks Scottly.
Fab'd a retaining clip out of a washer. It's there in the pic.
I'll get this out and checked in the am.....I'll try anything and everything before I commit to flipping this one over.
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2014, 08:22:51 PM »
Worst case, if the switch is the issue, you may have to remove the shifter cover so you can move the drum back and forth to get it to engage. Hope it's this simple!!
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Offline Airborne 82nd

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2014, 08:53:46 PM »
Quote from: scottly on June 20, 2014, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: flybox1 on June 20, 2014, 07:17:58 PM
Quote from: scottly on June 20, 2014, 07:16:54 PM
Try leaning the bike in either direction while on the center stand. BE CAREFUL!
OK...what am I looking for?  :P
If it engages when leaning one direction but not the other, it may mean a snap ring on the transmission shaft is not seated in it's groove, or the gears were not assembled on the shaft correctly.

Seems like I remember something special about that snap ring one side flat and one side beveled has to go in with bevel on correctly. I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:57:20 PM by Airborne 82nd »
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Offline scottly

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Re: Where's my 5th gear?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2014, 09:24:07 PM »
That's the gist of it Airborne, but hopefully that's not Fly's issue. :)
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