Topic: Malaysian airlines again !!

[Retro Rocket]

Poor buggers must have broken a few mirrors....  I was surprised not to see a thread on this unforgivable tragedy in the Ukraine, so here it is...
I want to know what you guys think about this one?

Comments...?

[petercb750]

Yeh mate, was thinking of starting a thread myself.
Anger, sadness, bewilderment, more anger, disgust.
A mistake? Very doubtful. Even if it was it of course doesn't excuse it.
Where does it go from here? Don't know, but can't help thinking we're on the brink of something big, not in a good way.
Very very tragic.

[Killer Canary]

Can you expand on "something big," Peter?

[Stev-o]

Havent heard all the details yet, but doubt it is against the airline?

Apparently many of the passengers were headed to Oz to a convention.

[mick7504]

Respect to all that lost their lives and to those affected by it.
I dunno what to say or think.

A couple years ago, I spent the final hours with a mate who had a terminal illness.
Some of his last words that he spoke were that he was looking forward to going to "The other side" because this world is fcuked and isn't the same place that it use to be.
I think that there is some merit in his statement.

[petercb750]

Can you expand on "something big," Peter?

I don't think it's hard for anybody to imagine that maybe this will turn into an escalation, retaliatory acts, copy cat killings etc. Certainly sanctions and demands from the big powers. Who knows where that will end.

My heart goes out to the families and friends affected by this, and to those poor innocent people blasted into oblivion. An Aussie grandfather and his 3 grandkids, ffs. an Aussie nun ffs. and there's a family over here who lost loved ones in the previous Malaysian airlines disaster, and now this one as well ffs. You gotta feel for the Malaysian airlines people, can you imagine their stress.

As Mick's dying mate said, the world's pretty fkd, and sadly and without wanting to sound like an alarmist or doomsayer, it's only going to get worse.

[demon78]

OK guys, you had to know it was going to happen you let people run around with modern weapons and you don't control them, bang, if it was on orders unlikely we'll ever find out, they're deadmen, if it was an accident they'll be thrown under the bus as far as what happens from here on don't know, but I hope cooler heads prevail. I guess this points out the need for a firm idea of what the country's military should be up to, no dicking around, no expensive pie in the sky weapons systems, just things that work and get the job done and I think just about all the western world is guilty of military dreaming as opposed to what works and what's functional, I know our gov has no idea of what's going on and they sure as hell don't learn the lessons of history " Oh lets get F35's they are stealthy and cool and expensive even better they won't work in the north, oh let's build multi purpose surface combatants oh lets get new search and rescue a/c from Italy instead of home oh let's buy helicopters that aren't up to safety standards I mean it's a helicopter it can land anywhere.
Any how in my own subtle way I'm saying that our politicos couldn't manage a gang bang in a whorehouse" and yes any females in the crowd I know that's a politically incorrect and sexist comment but I claim stress and if my wife was still here I would be in it up to my armpits.
Bill the demon.
PS if I was 45 year younger it would almost time to head to the mountains or rejoin. The other thing to take away from this, the people on board would not have suffered much, the passengers wouldn't have know what was going on just boom.

[BobbyR]

Nobody shoots down an Airliner by accident. It seems the World is on fire in either a planned or random way. 

Putin is way too smart to draw that kind of heat no matter how weak willed he may feel most of  Europe to be.

Who would fire Missiles at Israel without expecting return fire, and now a ground invasion.  Iraq is on fire as is Syria.

When you speak about something bad coming. Imagine something so horrible happening that the U.S. becomes completely irrational. Folks you have no idea what an irrational U.S. can do.       

[demon78]

Diplomacy has seem to have taken a back seat to lets play with guns I know that this should not have gotten this far and probably wouldn't have a while ago and I put it down to politicians meddling where they shouldn't. I go back to an earlier post and ask again what are we paying these idiots for, they are supposed to be leaders that use the resources at their disposal to make the countries that they represent work better instead they collectively are worrying about elections.
Bill the demon.

[mark]

.... Folks you have no idea what an irrational U.S. can do.     

Iraq.

Afghanistan.

Vietnam.

[BobbyR]

Oh, I think this was entirely unintentional. But the militia with the arms don't seem to have the intel or tools to discern between passenger and military.

I'd say that all this is happening due to an irrational US, without meaning to wax political. Our foreign policy for the past 25 years has led us to this point.

This not a .22 rifle, it is a sophisticated and complicated weapon not simple "arms". The SA-11, is sophisticated radar-guided weaponry that can launch missiles with a range of up to 80,000 feet and capable of giving our F-18s problems even with our jamming technology.

Not the kind of weapon that would be put in the hands of "Militias"

The plane was flying at 35,000 feet which would not make it a threat. This was a willful act, and the why is yet to be seen. It was clearly meant to provoke some response. The question is a response from who and why?

U.S. Foreign policy has nothing to do with the Ukraine or the Eastern Bloc.  My statement stands, you do not want to see what an irrational U.S. can do.

[BobbyR]

.... Folks you have no idea what an irrational U.S. can do.     

Iraq.

Afghanistan.

Vietnam.

Those were nothing compared to what can be done with no restraints.

[Retro Rocket]

Oh, I think this was entirely unintentional. But the militia with the arms don't seem to have the intel or tools to discern between passenger and military.

I'd say that all this is happening due to an irrational US, without meaning to wax political. Our foreign policy for the past 25 years has led us to this point.

This not a .22 rifle, it is a sophisticated and complicated weapon not simple "arms". The SA-11, is sophisticated radar-guided weaponry that can launch missiles with a range of up to 80,000 feet and capable of giving our F-18s problems even with our jamming technology.

Not the kind of weapon that would be put in the hands of "Militias"

The plane was flying at 35,000 feet which would not make it a threat. This was a willful act, and the why is yet to be seen. It was clearly meant to provoke some response. The question is a response from who and why?

U.S. Foreign policy has nothing to do with the Ukraine or the Eastern Bloc.  My statement stands, you do not want to see what an irrational U.S. can do.

The one thing that hasn't been said yet is that not just anyone can fire those missiles, they are a very complicated piece of equipment and need more than one person to operate, it also takes a very well trained skilled person in charge of it to be fired so someone from the Russian military had to have helped them use it. With all the tech available today its not hard to work out its an airliner, and it was given the OK by the European flight authorities to use that airspace, there was also another airliner in the same airspace around the same time and dozens of other civilian flights through that airspace in the days, weeks , months before, the only restricted airspace was over the Crimean peninsula.... Its created a very dangerous situation and Russia, so far has handled it poorly....

[simon#42]

.... Folks you have no idea what an irrational U.S. can do.     

Iraq.

Afghanistan.

Vietnam.

Those were nothing compared to what can be done with no restraints.

not quite sure what you are getting at bobby , all the examples you have used are of america and its allies [ mostly us ] making a complete and utter
mess up . are you saying that without restraint the mistakes would be even worse ?

[strynboen]

it is 2 plane the russian  shot down...the first vas a ukrian troop transporter..they took the korean civilian plane for a ukriane transport...and brang it down...lay it on internet vith film and all...and after have faund 100..and more civilian victims..they deledet the internet upload..vith the shoot down..

and  the black boxes,,,are in moskow..to be modified or deledet...its just russian ...

[70CB750]

Russians never change. They have this idea that the world would be better off if they had the main say.

Thats not unusuall, other nations had the same motion over the years - France, Germany for instance but they don't any more since they got the crap beaten out of them few times. Russians never lost significantly, Afghanistan was only a minor hickup. They are still ready to dominate as much as they are allowed to.

And with USA as weak as they are, bad things are gonna happen in Europe.

[strynboen]

yes ve must have NATO in ukraine now...or ve have a pearl harber..before the russian are stopped..think putkin and hitler looks very familiar

the europan are afraid of the russian.  ..so only usa can safe us...like they alvays do.(.think if the plane vas american)...then things vill be different

[BobbyR]

.... Folks you have no idea what an irrational U.S. can do.     

Iraq.

Afghanistan.

Vietnam.

Those were nothing compared to what can be done with no restraints.

not quite sure what you are getting at bobby , all the examples you have used are of america and its allies [ mostly us ] making a complete and utter
mess up . are you saying that without restraint the mistakes would be even worse ?

I was in Nam and there was a lot of restraint compared to WWII, same with the other two.

In WWII the Allies crossed the line and began serious carpet bombing of civilian populations rather than the precision bombing of factories, railways etc they were doing. Curtis LeMay was told he was not causing enough damage to break the will of the enemy. He began carpet bombing, and worse, firebombing.  Dresden was one famous example. Most of Tokyo was burned down before Hiroshima. 

In subsequent wars it was Military targets if possible. There were civilian causalities. Hanoi could have been carpet bombed very early on.

Now, imagine that you take the U.S., UK and several other powers and somehow provoke them to a point where they become irrational, or completely vengeful to a point they no longer give a #$%* about anything and let it all loose. Carriers, Bombers, and yes, Subs with multiple warheads.

Folks, the U.S. alone can wreak unspeakable havoc. In Tom Clancy novels something big begins following  something small but significant, and them keeps escalating. This is no Novel.

Israel has openly stated they have a Doomsday policy, if Israel is about to fall, they launch their Nukes.     

[demon78]

Like I said if I was 45 or so years younger it would be time to think about re up or the mountains but now I'm too damm old to do anything, so it's watch and wait for the idiots to lite things off and #$%* at my government for not being ready.
Bill the demon.

[simon#42]

.... Folks you have no idea what an irrational U.S. can do.     

Iraq.

Afghanistan.

Vietnam.

Those were nothing compared to what can be done with no restraints.

not quite sure what you are getting at bobby , all the examples you have used are of america and its allies [ mostly us ] making a complete and utter
mess up . are you saying that without restraint the mistakes would be even worse ?

I was in Nam and there was a lot of restraint compared to WWII, same with the other two.

In WWII the Allies crossed the line and began serious carpet bombing of civilian populations rather than the precision bombing of factories, railways etc they were doing. Curtis LeMay was told he was not causing enough damage to break the will of the enemy. He began carpet bombing, and worse, firebombing.  Dresden was one famous example. Most of Tokyo was burned down before Hiroshima. 

In subsequent wars it was Military targets if possible. There were civilian causalities. Hanoi could have been carpet bombed very early on.

Now, imagine that you take the U.S., UK and several other powers and somehow provoke them to a point where they become irrational, or completely vengeful to a point they no longer give a #$%* about anything and let it all loose. Carriers, Bombers, and yes, Subs with multiple warheads.

Folks, the U.S. alone can wreak unspeakable havoc. In Tom Clancy novels something big begins following  something small but significant, and them keeps escalating. This is no Novel.

Israel has openly stated they have a Doomsday policy, if Israel is about to fall, they launch their Nukes.     

unfortunately this time the war would not be fought only in europe , do the american people have the resolve to fight a country that will answer like with like in their own back yard ?.
the worrying thing about your scenario is if a politician is going to become irrational and vengeful the likelihood is it wont be one of ours .