Author Topic: 550f clutch basket/stack hight (Read 9832 times)

flatlander · « **on:** March 01, 2015, 09:18:24 AM »

bike is a 550f from 1976.
i've got new friction plates (7) and steel disks (6). in the basket it looks like this:

don't remember how they stacked up when i removed the old ones and the pictures in the manual are not that clear...
there seems to be enough space for almost another plate and disk. does this look ok?

Deltarider · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2015, 10:53:01 AM »

You may take a close look in the various Parts Lists as the 550 clutch underwent modification from engine number 1139189.
vide http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb550

strynboen · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2015, 11:02:54 AM »

you have the clutch viutaut dubbel steel plat dæmper.

..it gives some air.
.its the newer type chlutch..(vith the big plate autside)...mine 550 1978 did have the thik damper plate..but i took it aut..and got instead one more set of steel/friktion ,like you have...and it vork better..so be happy for it..
it vas a konfort thing vith the dæmper,,but vith less plates to give hk to rear hveel...it vas a dead idea(specily for a 550 )vork better on a 750 and 1000 goldwing..

a racing mod is to remove some matrial in a lathe and file to take a ekstra set of plates...but in normal driving..a nev set plates inn..make it vork just fine...
on my yamaha i have a ekstra set friktion/steel plates..it vas some job to make room for it

bwaller · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2015, 12:33:54 PM »

strynboen is right, your basket is from a 77/78 model which used the double steel. A quieter clutch was the goal supposedly. I never thought these clutches were rattly in the first place, at least compared to the 750, but they worked. I use this basket in my racebike with an extra friction disc & steel plate.

flatlander · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2015, 01:06:03 PM »

deltarider, that's a great link for partslists - thanks!
alas, my engine is 1130605 so it looks like some OP mixed-and-matched the clutch.

bwaller and strynboen: so i just throw in another friction and steel pair, withouth any further mods, and am good to go?

bwaller · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2015, 02:36:55 PM »

There is need for some extra space. From the clutch hub circlip surface I machined 0.93mm, then added a 1mm thrust washer between the hub & the clutch basket (large center bushing) Just check that you have enough clutch hub "free play" between the mainshaft circlip and the hub afterwards. There are 3 or 4? shim sizes available for this. I didn't need any shims. Basically, the hub just needs to be spaced out for enough to allow the extra clutch disc & plate.

flatlander · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2015, 08:11:35 AM »

the circlip you're referring to is no. 17 in this picture, right?
http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-general-export-kph-clutch_big00026127e07_9bef.gif

how much free play should there be between circlip and hub?

when i removed the clutch i checked and the double steel plate was definitely not in there, also the number of plates was the same as in my replacement kit. i guess the amount of play can't be super critical as i rode it like this for a year... although it did slip under heavy load.
anyway, this means i don't really have a reference for what it should be with that double plate added.

strynboen · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2015, 08:29:14 AM »

yes it need some mods to take a ekstra set..

...i just filled up..and still have some slack..and it vorked just fine..(.if you have bayed nev plates..you can eventuell fill some steel plates in for fill,),but i vas abel to adjust mine...even it not vas filled total up..mine slipped not..even it vas riden hard,,,and still are...so no need for tune up..

bwaller · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2015, 06:25:09 PM »

The manual says more than 0.1mm end play needs to be shimmed. Also checked & shims come in 0.1, 0.3 & 0.5mm thicknesses.

flatlander · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2015, 10:39:55 PM »

ok clear. thank you guys!

Deltarider · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2015, 01:14:39 AM »

I don't know if you need a shim and if they're still available. They can be ordered though Dave Silver. I must have two of them lying around somewhere but it could take days to dig them up. On the other hand, I take it they're easy to machine.

flatlander · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2015, 07:49:31 AM »

that's very kind, deltarider. i have the shim that's on there now. if that's not enough i'll give you a shout.

flatlander · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2015, 02:53:11 PM »

i mocked it up with an old pair of plates and i think it will be fine but... before i botch something up, can you please check if this is right?

bwaller · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2015, 03:06:43 PM »

That's right. Ideally remove 1mm from the front and add 1mm to the back! If you're exact you will need the shim you have now. It's meant to add that extra space to unload the plates. I aimed for 1mm and when I took it out of the lathe I was shy 0.07, it wasn't intended, sorry to confuse this. In my case not I don't need any shims but still have a little free play. Good luck.

flatlander · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2015, 03:52:09 PM »

thanks for the quick response. that makes sense re. the 1mm front and back. i was wondering where the slightly odd number of 0.93 came from

DucDave · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2015, 12:45:24 PM »

My '77 CB550F has a VERY hard clutch pull (measured 17 lbs using digital fish scale). My wife wants to ride it but the clutch pull is too hard. The cable is good and it is lubed. Cable routing has been optimized and triple-checked. Clutch lifter and internal mechanisms are all lubed and move freely.

It has the double pressure disc in the stack and the thicker Disk B friction plate on the outside. The other friction plates are worn beyond spec so I will replace them.

If I replace the double thick pressure plate and Disk B friction plate with std units, do you think it will help with the lever pull issue? I doubt it will slip with new friction plates plus my wife is pretty light and rides conservatively...

Any other suggestions to help improve it?

Thanks!

bwaller · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2015, 01:50:28 PM »

Is the lever pivot lubed too. I have found a tremendous difference between Honda cables & aftermarket. Surprising difference with some. The double steel won't have an affect, but HD clutch springs will also.

strynboen · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2015, 09:06:20 AM »

yes,,,no differens betven doubel steel plate..and vitaut....can you make some ekstra arm/gearing..on the engine or at the handel..to give an other gearing for easyer handling..have seen some motorcross grips..vho are different attachment for easyer pull..its reaktion arm prinsip..longer arm easyer pulling

flatlander · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2015, 10:04:04 AM »

took some time but i finally have the bike together and fired it up to try. here's what happend to the clutch after doing this mod:

tried to see what caused this. here's how the hub sits below the cover:

and here's the inside of the cover:

there's a little nick on the lever. looks like this is where the outer plate and hub cover hand contact:

those who have done this mod before: did you do anything else to create more space between the lever/cover, and the hub?
the change i did is the one shown in my pictures above. that created enough space in the clutch itself for the additional plates. of course the entire hub is now also 1mm taller.

there's a thrust washer behind the basket, no. 13 here:

does this need to be replaced by one that's 1mm thinner?
did you guys do anything else, or not have this problem at all?

strynboen · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2015, 01:26:46 PM »

vas it first ..when you pulled the handel it say bang...or vas it eating from engine start?..

flatlander · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2015, 01:39:51 PM »

i'm pretty sure it was engine rotation that chewed it up. first time i ran it it was in neutral. later when trying to shift, pulling the handle didn't seem to make any difference.

which direction does the clutch rotate? if you look at the lever inside the cover, it's been pushed in counter-clockwise direction.

strynboen · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2015, 01:50:43 PM »

have the adjuster bolt i made been to long.
??.
or adjusted to go too long inn..
normaly when you make mods..you test them vith plugs aut of the engine..-and rotate the engine vith a elektric drilling machine...to test for exact this komplikasions..
.and to thek for oil pressure..and oil in the valve lifters areas..

flatlander · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:34:03 AM »

the screw you made is 36.5mm long. my old one was 34.7mm but i don't know what the original spec is. you might be right that it is now too long and allows the lever to be pushed in too much.

i did checked rotating it by hand, then with kickstarter, finally with the starter motor - didn't have any problems. i did re-adjust the clutch after these tests which probably caused this.

once i have new plates i will try how it goes with restricting that screw. i guess these distances are more critical now as the stack hight is increased by 1mm.

flatlander · « **Reply #23 on:** July 29, 2015, 04:46:10 AM »

ok i got a new "plate B" that is currently soaking in oil. i'll test the theory about too much adjustment.

flatlander · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2015, 01:55:29 AM »

i reassembled the clutch, then adjusted the screw to about 33-34mm which i guess should be within original honda spec. the cover was put on without gasket for testing so sits marginally closer. when turning with the kickstarter the edges of "plate B" still scraped along the lever inside the cover. see the polished edges of the plate here:

this is by far not as bad as before where they broke off, and adding a gasket will increase the distance a bit - i find this still too close for comfort, however.

i think for the moment i'll revert to the stock clutch setup. i've been working on the bike since november last year and this is the last thing preventing me from getting it back on the road.
back to stock seems the quick-win solution for now, then i can tinker with this further during winter.

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Author Topic: 550f clutch basket/stack hight (Read 9832 times)