Author Topic: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5  (Read 6680 times)

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Offline Sherif78

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Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« on: May 05, 2015, 12:33:37 PM »
Hey Guys,

I just purchased a fender mounted oil tank from Benjies Cafe Racers for my CB750 K5. I'm very pleased with the craftmanship, but I'm a little worried that it doesn't have a vent to open air as the original K model oil tanks have. It only has a feed tube, return tube and a crank case breather tube. He assurres me that the crank case breather tube is enough even at high revs.

I've noticed that the F model oil tanks (see attached picture) doesn't have a vent to open air, so I'm not sure if it is a problem or not.

Do any of guys have any idea if it's going to be a problem or not and/or any experience with this particular oil tank.

The oil tank cap is not vented by the way.

Thanks in advance!

Offline anders288

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2015, 05:58:15 PM »
 
    Your good to go the K6 tank is the same as the F tanks I have put K6 tanks on earlier Ks
 without any problems.

                                     

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2015, 07:13:50 PM »
Don't get me started on Benjie's parts....  >:(

You must have a vent to atmosphere at the very least, or you will have a VERY greasy engine in short order from high crankcase pressures pushing at every gasket.

Benjie's "plan", if it can be called that, is to have the engine vent via the top vent cover out the long draft tube when this sealed-oil system is installed. He sealed the cap so it won't vent oily vapors under the seat. The result is: the top vent hose, which usually exits in front of the rear tire, then greases the rear wheel, instead.

If you stay with the sealed cap and don't add a tank vent of your own, then at the VERY least route the top engine breather hose down inside of the countershaft cover or under the chain guard (if you have one) so the oily vapors will at least do some good by dripping onto the drive chain.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline la ca fe

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2015, 08:41:38 PM »
So all what is needed is a vent from the oil reservoir to the bottom of the engine and a vented cap?
1976 cb750k
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Offline Sherif78

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2015, 10:05:40 PM »
Hey guys,

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

This is a question for Hondaman. The problems you refer to with extra crank case pressure and extra oil fumes coming out of the valve cover breather, is that also a problem with the K6 and F oil tanks?
Anders288 says, that he has never had any problems, or do you think he just hasn't noticed them?

It's a rubber cap. Is it a possibility just to drill a hole in the cap and call it I day or what do you think is the best solution?

Do anybody where I might be able to buy a vented rubber cap, if that is a better solution? The cap's inner dimension is 32 mm. I don't know what translates to in inches. I'm from Denmark, so I only know millimeters.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2015, 04:44:31 PM »
The situation here is: the 750 came with 2 different types of oil tank vent systems. Benjie only makes one type of oil tank...the simple one.

The 1969-1975 CB750K (aka K0-K5) has a vented oil cap and a vent tube between the oil tank and the rear of the engine: this port has a separator/filter/screen inside the tank (the connection is hose #7 in the CB750K1 Oil Tank" pic below). It also has a road draft tube from the top of the engine's cam cover that goes down to the back of the engine and, depending on the "K" model, either to the right or left side of the swingarm pivot where it can vent the cases below the bike. It's usually best if you can direct this tube into the chain drive area, to take advantage of putting the oil vapors to work on your chain.

During the K6/F0 era, it was changed to have a sealed oil tank, using a nylatron oil dipstick that screws into the tank. This is accompanied by a complex filter-separator-vent chamber under the battery that accepts hoses from the back of the engine and oil tank, and the airbox. (See the "750 Separator" pic below.) The general idea was to try to capture the "noxious crankcase fumes" and send them back to the engine to be burned. Mostly, these plugged up to a non-functional level by about 8k miles, and no one ever knew the difference. After that, the crankcase pressures rose, helping the engine to leak (weep) in the process, which is why so many of the post-1976 engines end up with weepy oil leaks all over. The pressures slowly force the oil against the gaskets until it eventually dissolves the goo that is impregnated in the gasket material, letting the vapors leak out as oil weeps here and there.

When rebuilding these bikes, I usually install a road draft tube wye or tee joint above and behind the airbox, and join it with the one from the back of the crankcase upward to the one from the top of the engine, connecting together up over the back of the airbox somewhere. This keeps the oil mist from the back of the engine from turning into a liquid form by letting it drain back down into the back of the engine. The open end of this joined hose then goes back down into the countershaft sprocket area to help lube the chain a tiny bit more.

For the most part, replacing the old fume filter parts in the separator assembly is either expensive, impractical, or impossible today, and cleaning them doesn't work very well once they have plugged up. Interestingly, using lighter oils (10w-something weight) will let this gizmo last a little longer (maybe 15k miles) before it plugs up, but it still plugs up.

In the attached pic, the "mystery hose" that is shown from the separator with no part ID is the one that goes to the oil tank. The #24 hose goes to the back of the engine. In the earlier bikes, the #24 hose goes directly to the oil tank vent, where the tank has a foam (or screen) separator inside. If Benjie's tank does not have this hose port, I suggest making one? It has to sit above the "full" oil level mark on the dipstick, and point downward, at the least, to try to prevent sloshing oil from working its way into the tube and going back to the engine (it's supposed to be flowing the other direction!).

I like to advise removing them and throwing them away because I don't like the EPA nor it's irrational, uneducated, vendetta-oriented edicts, and this is my revenge...but that's a topic for a different forum. Honda was the ONLY bike maker targeted to make these types of "improvements" in the mid-1970s, because of political [crap] pressure from Washington in those days. Kawi, Suzuki, Harley, and Yamaha were exempted until the late 1980s. That's called 'tyranny'....
:)
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 04:10:38 AM »
Mark, would it make sense to connect the road draft tube to the nipple on the top of the air box?

The vapors than would get filtered and sucked back to the engine the way PCV valve is connected on cars.
Prokop
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Offline Sherif78

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2015, 12:54:31 PM »
Thank you for a very comprehensive and thorough answer!

Benjies oil tank does have a hose port that resembles the original seperator inside, where the #24 hose goes to, so I don't have to worry about that.

I think I have solution that will work for now. Benjie has welded an 8mm threaded bung in the top of the tank, where the oil dip stick goes in to. My solution for venting the tank after having found the correct oil level, is to put in an 8mm brake bleeder nipple, in which I have enlarged the inner hole. I will then attach a hose, to that nipple, that will go down into the countershaft sprocket area to help lube the chain.

I have recently purchased your book, and I can only say that I'm very glad I did, and that it has been a very important tool in rebuilding my beloved CB750!

Again thank you very much for everyone's replies.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 06:38:08 PM »
Mark, would it make sense to connect the road draft tube to the nipple on the top of the air box?

The vapors than would get filtered and sucked back to the engine the way PCV valve is connected on cars.

When this has been done, it leaves a smoke trail behind the bike during high-RPM runs. It also tends to foul the air filter with the oil mist, and makes the carbs gummy quickly.
:(
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2015, 06:40:41 PM »
Thank you for a very comprehensive and thorough answer!

Benjies oil tank does have a hose port that resembles the original seperator inside, where the #24 hose goes to, so I don't have to worry about that.

I think I have solution that will work for now. Benjie has welded an 8mm threaded bung in the top of the tank, where the oil dip stick goes in to. My solution for venting the tank after having found the correct oil level, is to put in an 8mm brake bleeder nipple, in which I have enlarged the inner hole. I will then attach a hose, to that nipple, that will go down into the countershaft sprocket area to help lube the chain.

I have recently purchased your book, and I can only say that I'm very glad I did, and that it has been a very important tool in rebuilding my beloved CB750!

Again thank you very much for everyone's replies.

Thanks for buying one!
:)
If the oil tank is going there, where is your air filter going?
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Sockeye

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 09:46:09 PM »
Great read. I recently purchased a CB750F1 with 24k. It seems to be bleeding slightly and I figured it might be the oil pan, but now this has got me worried. Do you know if I'm able to swap in an older tank? I need to replace the side cover, so why not downgrade to the better tank while I'm at it?!? I also like the older style with exposed cap anyways.
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Offline evanphi

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2016, 07:05:40 AM »

When rebuilding these bikes, I usually install a road draft tube wye or tee joint above and behind the airbox, and join it with the one from the back of the crankcase upward to the one from the top of the engine, connecting together up over the back of the airbox somewhere. This keeps the oil mist from the back of the engine from turning into a liquid form by letting it drain back down into the back of the engine. The open end of this joined hose then goes back down into the countershaft sprocket area to help lube the chain a tiny bit more.

Do you have a photo of this, Mark?
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Offline Mitchell

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2016, 02:08:39 PM »
Hmmm my buddie and i made a 750 chopper and built an oil tank for it. We vented the top of the oil tank and connected the vent to the vent on the bottum of the motor (the one on the back by the transmission) with a rubber hose then left the valve cover vent open to atmosphere. Will the cause some issues down the road? should we open the vent on the oil tank to atmosphere?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2016, 04:24:05 PM »
Hmmm my buddie and i made a 750 chopper and built an oil tank for it. We vented the top of the oil tank and connected the vent to the vent on the bottum of the motor (the one on the back by the transmission) with a rubber hose then left the valve cover vent open to atmosphere. Will the cause some issues down the road? should we open the vent on the oil tank to atmosphere?

In a word, yes: the tube will vent slightly when buzzing along at steady high speeds (aka Interstate), so you want it to end up somewhere that it will do the least "bad". I like to oil the chain with it....on the mix-and-match 750K6 bikes, the ones that have the older-style vented oil tank (and no PCV separator under the battery) have a very long vent hose that exits to the right of the bike, under the upper exhaust pipe, with a specially-made (by Honda) bracket to hold the end of it pointing down. It also has a nylon Ty-wrap on it (from the factory) about halfway across the horizontal part of the passenger footpeg (triangle) to make sure it stays put. I'm working on one of the K6 with this now, I'll try to remember to make a pic of it and maybe add that here?
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Mitchell

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2016, 10:14:03 AM »
Thanks hondaman as always your input is greatly appreciated and respected. I would love to see some pictures of your setup it will help on an overhaul of a k8 750 im about to take on.

Offline sloephuck

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2020, 08:31:48 AM »
Thank you for a very comprehensive and thorough answer!

Benjies oil tank does have a hose port that resembles the original seperator inside, where the #24 hose goes to, so I don't have to worry about that.

I think I have solution that will work for now. Benjie has welded an 8mm threaded bung in the top of the tank, where the oil dip stick goes in to. My solution for venting the tank after having found the correct oil level, is to put in an 8mm brake bleeder nipple, in which I have enlarged the inner hole. I will then attach a hose, to that nipple, that will go down into the countershaft sprocket area to help lube the chain.

I have recently purchased your book, and I can only say that I'm very glad I did, and that it has been a very important tool in rebuilding my beloved CB750!

Again thank you very much for everyone's replies.

Sherif78,

Have you gotten this Benjie's Cafe Racer's Oil tank to work without issue?
I bought a 1974 Roller that had one of these oil tanks already installed. The Issue I am having with mine is at high RPM's, no matter the oil level, it spews oil past the filler cap.
I have installed a 10mm 1.25 hose barb to the dipstick hole you pictured and circled, the issue is still present.
Do you have this same issue?

Thanks!

-Kaleb
-Kaleb

Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2020, 11:23:55 PM »
K6 oil tank cap vents overpressure. I noticed that when I replaced the cap-dipstick by another with a lock that sit harder. It started oil weep elsewhere.
You can feel that the stock cap can move when wiggle it when tightened on a K6 tank.

I added extra case breather on my clutch cover.  Drill hole, thread it (NPT 1/8") and fasten an 45* angled hose connection, loctite 638 to secure it. A hose connected and placed between 2-3 pods under tank.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Esohc4%2Enet%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D172703%2E0&share_tid=172703&share_fid=13548&share_type=t&link_source=app

Mostly using stock cap. Even the dipstick with temp meter has some vent.

I should have known that in the 80's, riding hard on long tourings, 160kmh or more all day long. Oil weep between cases at front and around oil filter cover.
Then 836cc. 1000cc bigger reason.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 06:10:14 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
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Offline Sherif78

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Re: Oil tank vent for CB750 K5
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2020, 12:48:42 AM »
Thank you for a very comprehensive and thorough answer!

Benjies oil tank does have a hose port that resembles the original seperator inside, where the #24 hose goes to, so I don't have to worry about that.

I think I have solution that will work for now. Benjie has welded an 8mm threaded bung in the top of the tank, where the oil dip stick goes in to. My solution for venting the tank after having found the correct oil level, is to put in an 8mm brake bleeder nipple, in which I have enlarged the inner hole. I will then attach a hose, to that nipple, that will go down into the countershaft sprocket area to help lube the chain.

I have recently purchased your book, and I can only say that I'm very glad I did, and that it has been a very important tool in rebuilding my beloved CB750!

Again thank you very much for everyone's replies.

Sherif78,

Have you gotten this Benjie's Cafe Racer's Oil tank to work without issue?
I bought a 1974 Roller that had one of these oil tanks already installed. The Issue I am having with mine is at high RPM's, no matter the oil level, it spews oil past the filler cap.
I have installed a 10mm 1.25 hose barb to the dipstick hole you pictured and circled, the issue is still present.
Do you have this same issue?

Thanks!

-Kaleb

Hi Kaleb,

I've been running it for 5 years now without any problems at all. The only time that it had spewed a little oil was through the vent hose that I attached to the dipstick hole, and that was because I overfilled the oil tank.