Topic: brat style bike guide?

[Trad]

If you don't have a lot of motorycle riding experience I would be reluctant to tell you building a "brat style" bike like you see on pipe burn is the way to go. That said, it's a free world so to each their own. 

Cal and Don both have lot of experience and knowledge surrounding these bikes and they are giving educated input based on both those principals. You should really take their advice when appropriate. Not to mention, they build some top notch stuff!!

Here is my two cents. If you're going to build an aesthetics over function build I will advise you to replace/upgrade or at the bare minimum carefully check all the suspension and braking components. This is where the majority of your focus should be. Once all that is sound, the rest is at your will.

On my personal bikes I know what works good for me and I build/design accordingly. The main principal I keep in mind with my builds is that everything on the bike is working/functioning as best it possibly can. I do omit lots of things others may find unacceptable, but it works for me and I know the bare essentials are functioning properly and I can ride with confidence.

Also, make sure the darn things runs properly!!! I can't stress this enough. I've seen so many people already this year who have been on form over function cafe, brat, choppers.......that look the part but are coughing, misfiring, running on less than all cylinders etc. For example, I stopped in at a local cafe for a motorcycle gathering and saw a really cool looking 350 four. I asked if I could hear it and it was running on 2 cylinders!!!!! The guy said it doesn't really matter as he still makes it from A to B. In my head I was like, you're ok with this, you idiot!!!! haha.

That said, Don pointed out where brat style came from. It's now been popularized into what I recognize as a minimalist motorcycle with a flat tracker style seat, lowered suspension, mid controls, and low to mid-rise handlebar.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Jared,

Thanks for chiming in.  All good advice!

[InAquaVeritas]

Some hilarious comments already, another reason to love the forum!

I started on my own brat/tracker bike, but it had to be a daily driver, so no slamming it or anything. I went all out on the modern parts, as I really like the mix of old and new.


It looks like it sits super low, but I kept the original shocks and the USD forks are only 2 cm's shorter than the originals. I went with some Renthal Fatbars 28,5 to 21 cm (1 1/8 to 7/8 or something) to complement the forks. It has Michelin Pilot Road 4 tires, all the switches, idiot lights and gauges, and mirrors.

I took the brat idea and made it into something rideable, in my opinion. Although it hasn't run yet...hahahaha!

The main tip I can give you as a first time builder, as I am, is to write it all down at first. I seems daunting, but will give you a good idea of the work to be done.
As an example: the wheel and fork had the following work as a result:
Custom triple with correct offset and trail
Shortened swing arm to fit the massive 5,5 rear. Modern superbikes have very long swing arms, using those in stock length will make it a drag bike.
New rear brake bracket
New rear master mount
Alignment
Shock mounts on the swing arm
Reworked swing arm pivot axle
New handlebars
Custom risers for the new risers
Custom headlight mount
Custom front fender and mount
Custom Rear fender and mount
New tail light
New wire loom

Make sure you know what you get into, also financially. Make the engine run well, otherwise its a very expensive art installation. My budget quadrupled and my built time went past the deadline five times what it should've been.

This not meant to discourage but to give you an honest look into what you're getting into if you go all out. I understand that the fork and wheel swap I've done have huge consequences, but its meant to illustrate what the effects of changing parts can be.

Also, keep in mind trail, rake and handling when lowering the bike.

Good luck with your project!!

[Calisoul]

That's pretty much exactly what I'm building there. I'm not slamming it down though. I will however have an open design and lose or hide a much smaller battery.
DJFOB special advice on chopping that backend and seat bridge off? welding the hoop? did you fabricate or get stuff from dime city cycles?

[NobleHops]

A few caveats on the style of bike you have shown above:

Seat- yep, no support, diminishes your ability to control the handling of the bike, uncomfortable, and purely personal taste.

Electrics- where will you put them? With an open triangle, a flat seat, and no "hump", where do you expect to locate the battery, reg/rec, solenoid, fuses, and SSM? You need all these items and you're removing all the recipes real estate to hide/place them.

Handling- all too frequently you will see bikes pictured online where the seat hoop is slammed down onto the rear tire, large sidewall tires, and then clip-one. It would be like steering a dump truck on an auto-cross track... You require some distance in the rear for suspension travel before the shock bottoms out on the tire (especially with a passenger). Ditch the "looks quotient" of tires, and use quality modern tires for your bike (Avons, Bridgestones, Metlzers to name a few).

If you have any access to, ride a bike styled as you desire. Then decide if that "style" suits your body. Member Trad has a few build in the Project section. His Bare Bones bike is pretty well executed and is form follows function oriented. He's an experienced rider with some other bikes to guide his choices, so his design choices were executed against his knowledge and experience.

You can "build" a bike of different style without "cutting it up". If you restyle it, ride it, then decide to alter it, easier to do if you haven't hacked off the important bits. Get it sorted out, ride it, then the following year, attack it to execute and finish the "aesthetic" choices that are your ultimate goal.

The form of that bike doesn't follow function. That's a bit more than a personal taste opinion, it's a motorcycling assessment.

Best post ever.

[NobleHops]

Everyone is open to having their own opinions. I personally don't like the look of stock bikes. I'm building my second bike now and honestly you learn as you go. What works and what doesn't. Whoever mentioned that having a brat seat means sliding off the back... Lol!! Guess it's possible if made of smooth vinyl. I've put serious miles on mine with no issues.

Do you have more photos of your bike online, djfob? Would like to see more of it.

Don't have too many pics. My advice would be to not drop it so low, it has since been raised up a bit from when this pic was taken. Everyone is right, most brat bikes you see online aren't actually ridden. Being dropped that low it's not possible unless it's for short distances and non spirited riding.

Yeah, by now you learned that raising your fork tubes so high that your fork legs impact the triple clamp is a really dumb, uninformed idea. Never mind the ground clearance you lost, nor the instability at speed you created.

This is a PERFECT example of a <sarcasm>"mod" </sarcasm> that uninformed people do to their motorcycles in search of some look, without knowledge or consideration of what it does to how the motorcycle actually, you know, WORKS.

It is, at the end of the day, a MOTORCYCLE. Not a decoration, or a statement of your unique style. It's a motorcycle, it needs to work effectively as a motorcycle, without endangering you or anyone you share the road with while you are enjoying it.

Nope, I didn't last a month, did I.

[Calisoul]

Hey Nobel hops. If everyone here believed that they'd just drive something safe like…cars. Motorcycles are absolutely about your style. Thats the point. Cars are WAY safer and convenient in most cases.
Go look up "hater" on the google.
I asked if anyone knew of any resources for building these types of bikes and now you're ranting about whatever.  You old guys are hilarious! 

[Calisoul]

I wonder what you naysayers would say to someone if they were chopping an old For an old ford and making a hotrod. Seems like the same situation.

[Retro Rocket]

I wonder what you naysayers would say to someone if they were chopping an old For an old ford and making a hotrod. Seems like the same situation.

Wrong again, as long as its done with a knowledge of how the vehicle works, then it can be done safely, most if not all of the guys commenting here ride properly modified bikes that work safely.  Motorcycles are not about style, Gucci handbags and pretty clothes are though....

[Calisoul]

I wonder what you naysayers would say to someone if they were chopping an old For an old ford and making a hotrod. Seems like the same situation.

Wrong again, as long as its done with a knowledge of how the vehicle works, then it can be done safely, most if not all of the guys commenting here ride properly modified bikes that work safely.  Motorcycles are not about style, Gucci handbags and pretty clothes are though....

Yeah that's why I started this post in the first place then it hijacked by by people who wanted to share their rigid opinions. And if you don't think vehicles in general are about style then you should drive your Geo Metro over to every single car manufacture and let them know they are wasting their time.

[Retro Rocket]

In my experience, people who buy big flash automobiles to massage their ego, usually have small penises...   I'm not sure you are getting it, its been mentioned quite a bit here, they aren't "rigid opinions" they are the opinions of people who know how to build a motorcycle in a number of ways, properly, there's a lot more to it than just having an idea and making it look "stylish". Style is form over function, while you are talking to the manufacturers about style, ask them why they actually build motor vehicles, they are form of transport first, lots of idea's on style are curtailed at the production phase to make sure they work, first as a motor cycle, then to look good, seen many prototypes ?, they look far more "stylish" until they are put into production, thats where the safety issues compromise the style, its all about balance....

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Calisoul,

I'm not sure if I'm the old guy, Geo Metro driver or the one with the rigid opinions.  If you look at my posts, along with some light sarcasm, I offered you some sound advice about some of your design ideas, said you were free to disregard it and build whatever you wanted, and even encouraged you talking to Jared Chilko (Trad) who executed a good-looking and functional brat.  That's not being rigid with opinions.  There's no drop of "haterade" in my posts.  I apologized for my sarcastic humor, which apparently you did not appreciate.  IF you are calling me the old guy, Geo Metro driver or they one with rigid opinions, maybe you should re-read my posts, and take a look at the bikes I and the others posting here (on this thread) have built.  Some like mine, are faster, handle better and brake far better than stock CBs.  In comparison, I don't think anyone tried to attack you personally, calling you a this or a that.

My posts were made to offer advice, which you solicited, and inject some humor:

Although there is a lot of info on bike builds out there, it all seems to be scattered. Is there anyplace that has a real guide to building a brat style bike?
I've been piecing together info from various posts on here and other sites but nothing that is very concrete. I've got my bike running and looking good. I'm just about at the point were I'm going to hack off the back-end and start buying things but I don't want to do something recklessly and waste money or delay the process by damaging something.

Can someone point me in the right direction? any videos out there?

Thanks in advance!

As I said before, we are here to help you.  When you ask for a "brat style bike guide," you have to expect some ribbing to accompany the advice. 

Your posts indicate that you are familiar with the riding characteristics of your inspiration bike (with the ultra low clip-ons, dropped forks, stock foot pegs and flat seat), and that you like the way they feel and look.

I LOVE how people on these forums like to impose their opinion on a simple question. I was expecting responses like that. Frankly, this IS the type of bike I'm going to build. I've been on one that's similar and I like the feel. AND I think they look way cooler than a stock bike. My bike my opinion. That being said people DO modifications like cut the seat mounts off CB's  There doesn't seem to be a lot of info on the subjects. Just looking for someplace to gather the knowledge.

To this, I say, "Great.  Go forth and build your bike."  We will still be here to help and poke some fun if and when you ask for a "brat style bike guide" again.    We actually do care and want you to successfully execute your build.

[calj737]

Cali - here's a link to a buddy of mine's 750 which I guess would be described as "brattish". Now this is a 750 so the oil tank is required, and it has a GSXR front end and a custom tank, but it's worth looking at.

https://instagram.com/p/zu3y9BN1PZ/

I link it to point out to some of the challenges/design choices he had to overcome, especially with his electronics! The battery, reg/rec and M-unit are all tucked up under the tank. He had to custom make the tank, reduce the volume of it accommodate the electrics, and then hide it.

I can say from personal experience, it makes maintenance on the bike an altogether PITA because the tank has to be removed for everything, and it's not mounted in the stock way either. He acknowledges some of his mistakes in the execution of his design, and some of the limitations due to the style. This has been my point all along.

I am not at all trying to dissuade you from a bike style or usage. I am only providing you a syllabus of things to design through, so your outcome meets your goals.

Here's another type of bike he built, again, space considerations were not well planned
https://instagram.com/p/1Hxx-UN1Ap/
And one more-
https://instagram.com/p/19PHedN1OR/

Even though the last example still has a small "hump", there was virtually no real estate to get everything "hidden". I know, because I wired these bikes for him.

It can be done, but you have to really think through what goes where, and plan it out to allow your end product to look well executed. A battery "stuck" onto a swing arm is the result of poor planning. Stuffed up under a tank, is not in my opinion, a great idea.

And all of these bikes shown above use MotoGadget m-units, switches, and gauges due to their ultra small size. That adds about $700 to your build immediately. Just bear that in mind...

So now that you're armed with good information, spend this weekend getting your project underway with a new thread in the Project section so we can support you as you get it done!

Ride safe!

[NobleHops]

Pretty sure I'm being tagged as the hater/old guy. Don't be too thin-skinned cali, you've received some of the most valuable advice you'll get anywhere already in this thread, if you're wise you'll sift and take much of it.

Personally I prefer stockish bikes with modern upgrades to things like suspension, tires, brakes, electrics. That's where my tastes lay. In fact though I have nothing against the custom bikes, quite the opposite, some of the bikes that guys have built and shared here are amazing, in form AND function. What I object to is when form totally trumps function, in ways that make the motorcycle uncomfortable, unstable, and unsafe, and yes, many of the "brat" or "cafe" builds I see have achieved just that. The lowering of front ends as shown a few posts back is a particular "red cape" for me. There could be no more of an ignorant, foolish modification done to a motorcycle than that, it gets me out of the woodwork every time.

Go re-read the advice you were given, and quit taking it as some attack on you personally. Build yourself a #$%*in' custom motorcycle that expresses your taste and style. Just be careful that when you're finished it still works well as a motorcycle, goes, stops, turns, you can control it effectively and yes, safely. You're not the only person on the roads.

[calj737]

...and we all want to share the road and a ride with you someday 

[NobleHops]

...and we all want to share the road and a ride with you someday 

This.

[Djfob]

The bridge I cut and replaced with the heavier gauge flat bar. I did all my own welding with a Lincoln mig pak 180 running argon/c02.