Topic: brat style bike guide?

[Calisoul]

Although there is a lot of info on bike builds out there, it all seems to be scattered. Is there anyplace that has a real guide to building a brat style bike?
I've been piecing together info from various posts on here and other sites but nothing that is very concrete. I've got my bike running and looking good. I'm just about at the point were I'm going to hack off the back-end and start buying things but I don't want to do something recklessly and waste money or delay the process by damaging something.

Can someone point me in the right direction? any videos out there?

Thanks in advance!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Brat style is actually the name of a Japanese motorcycle builder:  http://www.bratstyle.com/

Somewhere along the line, some hipster used their name to describe a style -- typified by a lower profile, flat seat.  It might be because said hipster stole the name and the bikes don't come from brat style that there's a disconnect as to the definition.  Here are some motorcycles that Pipeburn puts in the brat box
http://www.pipeburn.com/home/category/brat#.VVwZTFKq_ng

The unfortunate truth is that a flat seat with little padding will likely have you scooting off the ass end of the seat (on acceleration) and not feeling very comfortable on long rides.  But hey, you may still look cool especially if you outfit that bike with some Firestone (no sidewall grip) tires.

You said that you have your bike running and looking good.  Enjoy it!! 

Oh, and here's a video:

Not a valid vimeo URL
Can you catch the sarcasm in this post?  You should build what you want, and what suits you.  I don't think you have to prescribe to a textbook aesthetic -- cafe, brat, tracker, chopper.  There are plenty of different styles of bikes on this particular "Project" board and even an "Inspiration" thread.  Have a thorough look.  What do you want the bike to do that it doesn't do now?  Let the function dictate some of the overall aesthetic.

[Calisoul]

this is the look I'm going for. Nothing flashy. Both for and function.

And Yeah I know the term "brat" is a bit of a misnomer. But, I'm sure as soon as I said it everyone knew exactly what I meant.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I'll admit I'm cynical and that my first response was intended to be sarcastic.

Welcome to the forum. I'm genuinely glad you have interest in vintage bikes and Honda fours. 

That said, what is the function of the modifications pictured -- clip-ons, lowered forks and the lower profile flat seat?

I think you like the style of the bike and that's fine. Just know that certain mods affect performance. They can either be harmonious and/or functional OR not.

My opinions aside, we will all try to help you.

[70CB750]

this is the look I'm going for. Nothing flashy. Both for and function.

And Yeah I know the term "brat" is a bit of a misnomer. But, I'm sure as soon as I said it everyone knew exactly what I meant.

I like the look of those too.  There was a time I was going to rebuild my K0 - she needs it badly - just like that.  I am not sure anymore.

Good luck with your project.

[jaguar]

I thought bratstyle was French for "parts bike without seat"

[jaguar]

Just funny looking choppers to me.
It's okay, few are ever actually ridden or used.

They just exist so pipeburn has something to take pictures of and post.

And there is zero guide to build anything.
That idea is almost as funny.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Same thread is also in SOHC/4 Bikes Board -- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147973.0.html

Calisoul,

I am sorry we are being so negative.  At one point in time, I thought I might use a low-profile flat (brat) seat for a project to inject some new style into a 2-up ride.  NOTE: I was never contemplating Firestone tires!  I reconsidered because the functionality of the seat. 

For you, style may take a front seat to function.  That's okay.  We just want you to know the pitfalls or cons, before you grind off your seat mounts or cut off the rear of your top frame rails.

Like Cal said, Trad (Jared Chilko) has a very tasteful Brat 550.   http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144380.0.html
He did not abandon functionality in his build (see tires, suspension, controls/bars).

The bike you had pictured is a little bit of a mish mash -- VERY low clip-ons and lowered forks, with stock footpegs on a flat seat.  This provides for an upright body position for your lower body and bending over the tank and reaching to the bars.  If you are tall, your legs will be bunched up; if you are short, your upper body will be stretched to the bars.  Since the seat has no stop or bump, your butt will have a tendency to slide rearward, exacerbating the stretch on your arms.  Most "brat" bikes keep an upright body position with handlebars (versus clip-ons) and some use risers for the bars.

[dusterdude]

pay no mind to cal,he smokes funny cigarettes...lol,welcome to the forums

[Calisoul]

A few caveats on the style of bike you have shown above:

Seat- yep, no support, diminishes your ability to control the handling of the bike, uncomfortable, and purely personal taste.

Electrics- where will you put them? With an open triangle, a flat seat, and no "hump", where do you expect to locate the battery, reg/rec, solenoid, fuses, and SSM? You need all these items and you're removing all the recipes real estate to hide/place them.

Handling- all too frequently you will see bikes pictured online where the seat hoop is slammed down onto the rear tire, large sidewall tires, and then clip-one. It would be like steering a dump truck on an auto-cross track... You require some distance in the rear for suspension travel before the shock bottoms out on the tire (especially with a passenger). Ditch the "looks quotient" of tires, and use quality modern tires for your bike (Avons, Bridgestones, Metlzers to name a few).

If you have any access to, ride a bike styled as you desire. Then decide if that "style" suits your body. Member Trad has a few build in the Project section. His Bare Bones bike is pretty well executed and is form follows function oriented. He's an experienced rider with some other bikes to guide his choices, so his design choices were executed against his knowledge and experience.

You can "build" a bike of different style without "cutting it up". If you restyle it, ride it, then decide to alter it, easier to do if you haven't hacked off the important bits. Get it sorted out, ride it, then the following year, attack it to execute and finish the "aesthetic" choices that are your ultimate goal.

The form of that bike doesn't follow function. That's a bit more than a personal taste opinion, it's a motorcycling assessment.

I LOVE how people on these forums like to impose their opinion on a simple question. I was expecting responses like that. Frankly, this IS the type of bike I'm going to build. I've been on one that's similar and I like the feel. AND I think they look way cooler than a stock bike. My bike my opinion. That being said people DO modifications like cut the seat mounts off CB's  There doesn't seem to be a lot of info on the subjects. Just looking for someplace to gather the knowledge.

[Restoration Fan]

No doubt it's your bike so you can make up your own mind how to do it.
I think the reason you won't find much information on that type of bike is because few on this board have done one.  With the acceleration on a 750 being pretty good, that type of seat tends to let you slide backwards.

Thus, it seems a lot of people who go with the brat look tend not to ride the bikes a lot.  Most of the people on these boards tend to be people who are not only passionate about the bikes themselves but riding the bikes as well since that's what they're made for.  But, if that's what you want to do, go for it.

[Retro Rocket]

 That being said people DO modifications like cut the seat mounts off CB's  There doesn't seem to be a lot of info on the subjects. Just looking for someplace to gather the knowledge.

This is without doubt the best place for anything SOHC Honda. Your statement about " DO modifications like cut the seat mounts off CB's" isn't a glowing assessment of what people do, its more an uneducated mistake a lot of people make, that raised mount the rear guard bolts to stops flex between the rear sections of the frame, that helps your suspension work correctly, we are all assuming that when you need to grab a handful of brakes to avoid hitting some moron that cuts you off, the reaction of the bike will be positive, not bucking a weaving around like a lot of poorly modified bikes do...?  These people really do have your best interests at heart, listen and you will learn very quickly. Do yourself a favor and look at the bikes that belong to the guys giving advice here, some real quality, well built machines.... Hack away, but understand what the changes you are doing,  are having on the bike , and how to compensate for it safely....

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Calisoul,

Like I said before above, I am sorry I was so negative. By all means build what you want.

That said, you did ask for advice and you probably got more than you wanted.

Stick around. It'll get better I suspect. Again, check out Trad's Rust and Bones build and reach out to him by PM. He's very talented.

[Retro Rocket]

Brats style is not for me. But neither is tall, long legged brunettes with flowing hair and "come hither" eyes. I'll take my grumpy old wife,

Now Cal, seriously dude, take the tall, long, legged brunette with flowing hair and come hither eyes and try your darnedest to convince the wife that the Mormon way of polygamy isn't really that bad...!!!!   Its worth a try at least.....isn't it....{oh God i'm getting old and desperate}   

[AintNoEasyWay]

I think brats looks sweet & yet I'm still laughing pretty hard at all the hater comments on here. You guys are hilarious.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Brats style is not for me. But neither is tall, long legged brunettes with flowing hair and "come hither" eyes. I'll take my grumpy old wife,

Now Cal, seriously dude, take the tall, long, legged brunette with flowing hair and come hither eyes and try your darnedest to convince the wife that the Mormon way of polygamy isn't really that bad...!!!!   Its worth a try at least.....isn't it....{oh God i'm getting old and desperate}   

 

[Djfob]

Everyone is open to having their own opinions. I personally don't like the look of stock bikes. I'm building my second bike now and honestly you learn as you go. What works and what doesn't. Whoever mentioned that having a brat seat means sliding off the back... Lol!! Guess it's possible if made of smooth vinyl. I've put serious miles on mine with no issues.

[AintNoEasyWay]

Everyone is open to having their own opinions. I personally don't like the look of stock bikes. I'm building my second bike now and honestly you learn as you go. What works and what doesn't. Whoever mentioned that having a brat seat means sliding off the back... Lol!! Guess it's possible if made of smooth vinyl. I've put serious miles on mine with no issues.

Do you have more photos of your bike online, djfob? Would like to see more of it.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Whoever mentioned that having a brat seat means sliding off the back... Lol!! Guess it's possible if made of smooth vinyl. I've put serious miles on mine with no issues.

Well, I guess that's directed to me. While the rider might not slide off the back end of the bike (sarcasm) there is a genuine tendency to slide rearward on a flat seat with little padding, especially one with no stomp grips. I don't think you can dispute the laws of physics.

I didn't see any comment on the propriety of his inspiration to lower the front and use low mounted clipons with stock foot pegs in combination with the seat.  Do you think that is a good design choice?

The original post invited advice and given the questions, it sort of invited some humorous and sarcastic responses. That said, we also offered advice of things to consider so the owner can do some informed cutting.  Yes, you definitely do learn as you go.  Sometimes, the hard way as I can attest.  The advice is meant to help the original poster think before cutting/grinding.  Obviously, from my builds, I am not a stock purist.  I like performance/function to dictate form/design.  Some folks want what looks good to them regardless of ride-ability.  That's their choice.  Remember, the poster asked for our opinions before he started modifications: "I'm just about at the point were I'm going to hack off the back-end and start buying things but I don't want to do something recklessly and waste money or delay the process by damaging something."

I also pointed him to look at a well executed brat and to contact the builder for advice. We are not just a bunch of haters. We actually do care.

[Djfob]

Everyone is open to having their own opinions. I personally don't like the look of stock bikes. I'm building my second bike now and honestly you learn as you go. What works and what doesn't. Whoever mentioned that having a brat seat means sliding off the back... Lol!! Guess it's possible if made of smooth vinyl. I've put serious miles on mine with no issues.

Do you have more photos of your bike online, djfob? Would like to see more of it.

Don't have too many pics. My advice would be to not drop it so low, it has since been raised up a bit from when this pic was taken. Everyone is right, most brat bikes you see online aren't actually ridden. Being dropped that low it's not possible unless it's for short distances and non spirited riding.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Now Cal, seriously dude, take the tall, long, legged brunette with flowing hair and come hither eyes and try your darnedest to convince the wife that the Mormon way of polygamy isn't really that bad...!!!!   Its worth a try at least.....isn't it....{oh God i'm getting old and desperate}   

I am a Latter Day Saint and we gave up Polygamy years ago (regrettably). I'll stick with my short-legged, mousy brown, scowling eyed Hausfrau

For some reason hausfrau made me think of the following dialogue in Blazing Saddles:

Lili: Would you care for another schnitzengruben?
Bart: No, thank you. 15 is my limit on schnitzengruben.
Lili: Well, then, how about a little...
Bart: Baby, please. I am not from Havana. Excuse me, honey. Besides, I'm late for work. I've got some heavy chores to do.
Lili: Will i...Will I see you later?
Bart: Well, it all depends on how much vitamin E I can get my hands on.

http://www.hark.com/clips/tfbprwdlvs-15-is-my-limit-on-schnitzengruben

[Trad]

If you don't have a lot of motorycle riding experience I would be reluctant to tell you building a "brat style" bike like you see on pipe burn is the way to go. That said, it's a free world so to each their own. 

Cal and Don both have lot of experience and knowledge surrounding these bikes and they are giving educated input based on both those principals. You should really take their advice when appropriate. Not to mention, they build some top notch stuff!!

Here is my two cents. If you're going to build an aesthetics over function build I will advise you to replace/upgrade or at the bare minimum carefully check all the suspension and braking components. This is where the majority of your focus should be. Once all that is sound, the rest is at your will.

On my personal bikes I know what works good for me and I build/design accordingly. The main principal I keep in mind with my builds is that everything on the bike is working/functioning as best it possibly can. I do omit lots of things others may find unacceptable, but it works for me and I know the bare essentials are functioning properly and I can ride with confidence.

Also, make sure the darn things runs properly!!! I can't stress this enough. I've seen so many people already this year who have been on form over function cafe, brat, choppers.......that look the part but are coughing, misfiring, running on less than all cylinders etc. For example, I stopped in at a local cafe for a motorcycle gathering and saw a really cool looking 350 four. I asked if I could hear it and it was running on 2 cylinders!!!!! The guy said it doesn't really matter as he still makes it from A to B. In my head I was like, you're ok with this, you idiot!!!! haha.

That said, Don pointed out where brat style came from. It's now been popularized into what I recognize as a minimalist motorcycle with a flat tracker style seat, lowered suspension, mid controls, and low to mid-rise handlebar.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Jared,

Thanks for chiming in.  All good advice!

[InAquaVeritas]

Some hilarious comments already, another reason to love the forum!

I started on my own brat/tracker bike, but it had to be a daily driver, so no slamming it or anything. I went all out on the modern parts, as I really like the mix of old and new.


It looks like it sits super low, but I kept the original shocks and the USD forks are only 2 cm's shorter than the originals. I went with some Renthal Fatbars 28,5 to 21 cm (1 1/8 to 7/8 or something) to complement the forks. It has Michelin Pilot Road 4 tires, all the switches, idiot lights and gauges, and mirrors.

I took the brat idea and made it into something rideable, in my opinion. Although it hasn't run yet...hahahaha!

The main tip I can give you as a first time builder, as I am, is to write it all down at first. I seems daunting, but will give you a good idea of the work to be done.
As an example: the wheel and fork had the following work as a result:
Custom triple with correct offset and trail
Shortened swing arm to fit the massive 5,5 rear. Modern superbikes have very long swing arms, using those in stock length will make it a drag bike.
New rear brake bracket
New rear master mount
Alignment
Shock mounts on the swing arm
Reworked swing arm pivot axle
New handlebars
Custom risers for the new risers
Custom headlight mount
Custom front fender and mount
Custom Rear fender and mount
New tail light
New wire loom

Make sure you know what you get into, also financially. Make the engine run well, otherwise its a very expensive art installation. My budget quadrupled and my built time went past the deadline five times what it should've been.

This not meant to discourage but to give you an honest look into what you're getting into if you go all out. I understand that the fork and wheel swap I've done have huge consequences, but its meant to illustrate what the effects of changing parts can be.

Also, keep in mind trail, rake and handling when lowering the bike.

Good luck with your project!!

[Calisoul]

That's pretty much exactly what I'm building there. I'm not slamming it down though. I will however have an open design and lose or hide a much smaller battery.
DJFOB special advice on chopping that backend and seat bridge off? welding the hoop? did you fabricate or get stuff from dime city cycles?