Topic: RE: Tytronic Electric ignition $75 from China

[HondaMan]

dynas seem to have trouble?

The well used Dyna III that I bought from a member here in 2017 is at least 30 years old, and still works fine in my K2.

Wow, you still have a working Dyna III? Neither one of mine lasted a year, back during the 1990s when I could still get one. They are not as hard on the alternators as the Dyna S units, as they made for less duration (about 160 degrees) of ON time.

Ha ha, the ignition unit in my K2 is the used one you sent me 10 years or so Mark! I used your ignition plate and rotor, and another members "black box" as your timing plate and rotor looked a bit cleaner than his. I might keep the original points in my "Swamp Rat" build, but might buy one of your ignition amplifiers, just to give it a little extra pop? Cheers, Terry.

I'm still making them: lately more than in the last few years, too. I had a batch of 25 'bad' transistors a few years ago which caused 10 of these units to fail within about 50 hours each one: it turned out that Lot was supposed to have been recalled by the factory, but got shipped to me by some quirk of fate instead (from UK). In theory that should make 13 'bad' units out there, somewhere: I have received back (and repaired or replaced) 11 of them so far. I don't know who got the bad ones, though, as I had quit serializing them by then. At least with this box, you're not stranded if it quits: you can always plug the points back in and ride on.

The total failure rate of units outside of those is still less than 0.08% of the total (over 3000 now) built, and those were broken resistors (had nicked leads from the factory, right at the body) or wires that got stretched too hard during installation, and broke off inside the box. The wires got longer after that...

[Terry in Australia]

Good to know Mark, I was gonna order one from you for my K2 Bitsa, but another member here who lives locally replaced yours with a Kokusan electronic ignition and sold me his Hondaman box cheap. Once I get back to my Honda (playing with Kawasaki's at the moment) I'll hook it up to my new points ignition and see how it works.  

[PeWe]

Hondaman's box work without condensors too. Good to know if one fails.
I have mine in the tool compartment. Who need tools  for a CB750 that fits there?
Dry too.

[rotortiller]

Here is how well it actually works.

[Terry in Australia]

Here is how well it actually works.

Looks great mate, I never got around to buying one as I've still got a box full of various ignitions, but I'd buy one, even though I'm not a fan of China at the moment..........

[Deltarider]

Here is how well it actually works.

Did I miss something? You just demonstrated your bike starts. So?

[PeWe]

A few hours ride in warm sunny weather a good test.
A really warm engine can influence electronics.

Charging voltage is OK too?
Overcharging can be a reason of failures of electronic ignitions if I have got it right.

Easy go get over 15V if not properly adjusted or corroded cables to regulator.
If it can cope with 16V should be safe.

Electronic components degenerates by year and heat especially.

[rotortiller]

I have original CDI stators and rotors over 40 years of age, most of them ran at 15V+  all of their lives. Actually 15.5V was the published upper value.  The opinion on heat and voltage degradation only holds water when something is not built to last. Modern bikes, cars watercraft etc handle ignition pickup heat fine be it of coil or solid state nature. 

Did I miss something?

That was a 65+ year old arm cranking that sucker, the ignition had to be in top order for that massive feat to occur. LOL

[dave500]

good show,no arm wrestle offers from me!!

[rotortiller]

Another year gone by and I hope everyone is safe and healthy during covid-19 times. Just flashed the bike after winter storage.  Three kicks and it continues running fine off the tidy and professional looking Asian Tytronics ignition, just as any self respecting SOHC should. My R6 rolled over more after winter storage before lighting off (draining float bowls is the key). Definitely as reliable as what I had before. Based upon my actual experience I would certainly recommend the product over my points driven amplifier I had employed before. I may stick the timing light on it this year even though I know it is not necessary from an electronics stand point, however it does verify the mechanical advance spring operation.

People were concerned about heat, Asian heritage lol, the fact that it had no 'made in the USA sticker' while others questioned the reasonable pricing. If it ever fails I shall let everyone know. Over and out.

[caluser2000]

Darky, my '76 CB550F, is still running points 164,000kms and sill runing sweet.

Honda OEM points are the way to go if still using points.

Mainly high km hot riding which helps as well.

[Deltarider]

Rotortiller, thanks for the annual report. Me personally I'm not impressed by most aftermarket products and I'd rather not have electronic components behind the points cover. Hence I made my own transistor module and located it at a vibrationfree spot. There's sufficient room behind the RH side panel.
Having said that, of all aftermarket EI's around, the Tytronic has my benefit of the doubt, because at least the manufacturer was wise enough to limit the duty cycle to 50%. One of the most expensive products is the Boyer & Bransden. Personally I fail to understand why all four plugs should fire at the same time. In my judgement for them (B&B) it's even cheaper to make, but that's just me. I have no experience with their product, but it seems to me that extra erosion at the plug electrodes is to be expected.
It is funny, but I cannot for the world remember having replaced my breakerpoints more than two times in over 138.000 kms. The ones in now, have served nearly 60.000 kms, be it that the last 15-20 years they have seen a far less load ofcourse since the Darlington does the switching. Last time I checked the dwell angle was still constant at all rpm.

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, I wonder if any internal combustion engines are produced nowadays with points ignitions? I doubt it. 138,000 Km (90,000 miles) and two points changes equates to new points every 30,000 miles on average, which doesn’t sound like very good value, as Honda points (if you can still buy them) aren’t cheap. My Yamaha FJR1300 had done 238,000 Km on it’s original electronic ignition when I traded it up to another Triumph Rocket III (with 147,000 Km on it’s original electronic ignition) and it had done over 60,000 Km on the sparkplugs that were in it, that still looked great when I replaced them with new ones.

Point are fine in a standard low compression engine using low octane fuel, but the only CB750 ignition problems I’ve had in recent weeks were due to a faulty points ignition which was immediately sorted once I installed a Japanese Kokusan electronic ignition.

[caluser2000]

If you buy someones else's NOS stock I have a few spare sets on hand, As well as a set of OEM barrel shaped gold things with small leads. I haven't had one of those fail yet.

I remember when Dynatec solid state ignition came. Quite often you whould hear about one og the ignition units going bad and riders kept their old point setup on there bike for a "just in case" situation.

I find setting up points doesn't take and usually are doing some other work the m/cs which take a day or two .Have a nice induction  Optilux timing light to do it. Would be a waste just leaving it in a drawer gathering dust.

The original points on Darky when I bought her got to 80,000kms before rivet on one of the points  fall to bits. Some 30 thou lock wire and super glue held everything together and got us home.

[Terry in Australia]

If you buy someones else's NOS stock I have a few spare sets on hand, As well as a set of OEM barrel shaped gold things with small leads. I haven't had one of those fail yet.

I remember when Dynatec solid state ignition came out. Quite often you whould hear about one og the ignition units going bad and riders kept their old point setup on there bike for a "just in case" situation.

I find setting up points doesn't take and usually are doing some other work the m/cs which take a day or two .Have a nice induction  Optilux timing light to do it. Would be a waste just leaving it in a drawer gathering dust. Also have one of the Honda carb sync long two piece screw driver/socket which I've had since around 1986.

The original points on Darky when I bought her got to 80,000kms before rivet on one of the points  fall to bits. Some 30 thou lock wire and super glue held everything together and got us home.

Ha ha, your post was so nice, you even quoted yourself Mark! I've heard all those horror stories about failing Dyna's but must have been really lucky, because in 40 years of using electronic ignitions, I've never had one fail? I installed a Martek (magnificent ignition) and my mate Pete, who was riding to Bathurst with me, demanded that I take the old points plate assembly in case my Martek failed. On the way home, his K2 started running on 2 cylinders, so we pulled over to the side of the road to find that the new OEM points arm for #2 and #3 had broken in half. We installed my points plate assembly, and were away again.

In my K2 bitsa build thread I had a problem that over 4K RPM the engine would start breaking down. Not having bothered with points ignitions in 40 years I knew it was ignition related, but the points were gapped properly and timed correctly, were in perfect condition (new OEM points plate that came with the engine I bought) and no sparking between the points, so I was stumped.

A more knowledgeable member here explained that regardless of the no sparking betwixt the points, regardless, my condensors were stuffed. I frisbee'd the points plate over the fence, installed the Kokusan ignition, and suddenly the problem disappeared. The Kokusans go for $210 AUD (about $1M NZ) which are pretty good value, and Kokusan have been making the electronic components for Kawasaki since at least the 70's as my Z1-B has Kokusan electrics, so I'm pretty confidant that they're a quality product.

[jonda500]

My brother in law just bought a brand new two seat light aeroplane and guess what - they still use points ignition! Electronic ignition is very reliable but if it fails it will be suddenly with no warning, where as well maintained points ignitions almost never fail (the plane has two independent points ignitions just in case!). It has carburettor ignition too - he could have got a fuel injected model but they cost much more (and still use points for the spark!).
John

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I can just imagine your BIL climbing out of the cockpit to give the points a quick clean if the ignition failed mid flight!

[PeWe]

It is fun to keep the mechanical points on these old bikes.
But I understand why people go electronic.

I have learned how to adjust the points with dwell meter and timing lamp. Springs must not be too sloppy either.

But electronic is much easier.
If advance springs are cut a 1/2 wound, you can set ignition to match F at idle (same with points). I prefer 1200 rpm.
Full advance will not happen too early.  Use a timing lamp. They are cheap.
The advancer bolt must be not bent. If 1:4 differ from 2:3 it can be.

My last ignition assembly with check took max 5 minutes. Dyna-S plate removed when timing the cam. Plate back on matching the marker pen marks I made before.
Check ignition 1:4&2:3 at 1200rpm idle with timing lamp connected to a separate battery on the floor.
 Spot on. No need to check full advance I  know is good due to the springs. I have verified that numerous of times before.

Good feedback here about alternatives.

I hope airplanes have double safety....

[Deltarider]

Terry, you lack imagination. I bet you have never seen that film - wasn't it Buster Keaton? - where a train was canabalised to keep its steam engine running?
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179521.msg2082692.html#msg2082692
No further comment.

[dave500]

Terry dont lack imagination at all delta lady,points are fine(to a point),electronic is better,in the day if points needed a tickle road side how many guys would actually be able to fettle them?i got mates with old 70s land rovers and a p76 and old falcons etc,they all have the standard points ignitions they work fine.

[caluser2000]

Terry dont lack imagination at all delta lady,points are fine(to a point),electronic is better,in the day if points needed a tickle road side how many guys would actually be able to fettle them?i got mates with old 70s land rovers and a p76 and old falcons etc,they all have the standard points ignitions they work fine.

What he posted ^^^^

[Terry in Australia]

I was pondering the common condenser failure issue with points ignitions as I was riding at highly illegal speeds on my K2 yesterday. Much has been said by the points lovers about the myth that electronic ignitions fail regularly due to the heat behind the points cover, and while I’ve never had an electronic ignition fail at all, condensers seem to sh1t themselves on a regular basis on SOHC4’s, and I wonder whether they have this heat failure problem? On many other old cars and bikes the condensers were located outside of the distributor etc, perhaps for that reason?

Hondaman’s magic ignition amplifier requires the deletion of the condensers and I presume Delta’s does as well, maybe the weak point (pun intended) was Honda’s decision to stuff the condensers behind the points cover, subjecting them to excessive heat and thus, premature failure? And what do you do when your condensers fail miles from home? Maybe carry a cheap electronic ignition that you can quickly swap in on the side of the road to get you home?

[dave500]

that post shows imagination.

[caluser2000]

that post shows imagination.

Indeed. History has told us Dyna systems have failed more than once.

[david 750f]

I still think the Dyna issue is overblown, there certainly was a bad batch about 10 years ago. I’ve run a Dyna 3, Dyna S and a Dyna 2000 on my bikes for over 20 years. Never had a problem. (Your experience may differ)