Topic: The Amalgam: honda past meets present, take 2! or 3?

[RAFster122s]

Project stalled for spring?  How is it going and any new updates to share?
David

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I'd love to see this one coming along, too.

[jag767]

Stalled for $$ I need 6-7k to finish it up. I'm going to try and sell 2 bikes soon, would more than pay for it

[jas67]

$6-7k to finish it up 

Damn, that's more than the price of a new CBR500R!

[jag767]

After a long hiatus this is back on! Going in a very different direction, sold the front end and wheels, going with a different design. After doing a lot of riding on different bikes, I decided I hate wide, fat, slow, heavy bikes. With that said, why would I want those big fat forks? Instead, I'm going with a 33mm unit. This bike is going to be very, very light, so the narrow front end will be just fine. Also, I hate overcomplicated systems. Give me a drum brake over the dual 4 piston system on my monster any day. In short, I much prefer something where the damn thing is so simple a 5 year old could work on it. The end result just makes for a more nimble, fun bike.

That all being said. I will be getting to putting her back into a roller this weekend. I may have a little work to do making the new rear hub work, but nothing major. The end result should be way more my style, and if I can hit my weight goal of 250-270 lbs, the 500r motor will feel extremely quick.

[jas67]

Wow 250-270lbs, that is a VERY ambitious goal!    Esp. considering the CB450 originally weighed about 450#, and the CBR500R is about the same.

Have you weighed the CB450 frame?     1970's steel motorcycle frames are pretty heavy for what they are.

To hit your weight goals, a custom-built crome-moly frame is likely in order.

What does the CBR500R motor + cooling system weigh?
How 'bout your wheels (and tires)?

I'm not trying to put water on your fire.   

Consider that many modern air-cooled single cylinder dirt bikes weigh about what you're shooting for.

Good luck -- I'll keep watching your thread.   I'm interested in seeing what you come up with!

[jag767]

Wow 250-270lbs, that is a VERY ambitious goal!    Esp. considering the CB450 originally weighed about 450#, and the CBR500R is about the same.

Have you weighed the CB450 frame?     1970's steel motorcycle frames are pretty heavy for what they are.

To hit your weight goals, a custom-built crome-moly frame is likely in order.

What does the CBR500R motor + cooling system weigh?
How 'bout your wheels (and tires)?

I'm not trying to put water on your fire.   

Consider that many modern air-cooled single cylinder dirt bikes weigh about what you're shooting for.

Good luck -- I'll keep watching your thread.   I'm interested in seeing what you come up with!

Should have said dry weight lol. Motor is 115, frame after I rebuilt it is very light, have to weigh it. I'd guess 25 pounds tops. The 33mm front end is less than the 35mm thant came on that bike. And the aluminum rims will help some. I think I will be close. Keep in mind, no frills anywhere, I will do a tiny headlight, no signals, small tank, the seat weighs nil since it's plastic, and all the little components do add up.

[jas67]

Wow 250-270lbs, that is a VERY ambitious goal!    Esp. considering the CB450 originally weighed about 450#, and the CBR500R is about the same.

Have you weighed the CB450 frame?     1970's steel motorcycle frames are pretty heavy for what they are.

To hit your weight goals, a custom-built crome-moly frame is likely in order.

What does the CBR500R motor + cooling system weigh?
How 'bout your wheels (and tires)?

I'm not trying to put water on your fire.   

Consider that many modern air-cooled single cylinder dirt bikes weigh about what you're shooting for.

Good luck -- I'll keep watching your thread.   I'm interested in seeing what you come up with!

Should have said dry weight lol. Motor is 115, frame after I rebuilt it is very light, have to weigh it. I'd guess 25 pounds tops. The 33mm front end is less than the 35mm thant came on that bike. And the aluminum rims will help some. I think I will be close. Keep in mind, no frills anywhere, I will do a tiny headlight, no signals, small tank, the seat weighs nil since it's plastic, and all the little components do add up.

Go with a Lithium battery.    They weigh practically nothing.

Are you doing clip-ons or regular handlebars.    Definitely go with aluminum there too!

[jag767]

Wow 250-270lbs, that is a VERY ambitious goal!    Esp. considering the CB450 originally weighed about 450#, and the CBR500R is about the same.

Have you weighed the CB450 frame?     1970's steel motorcycle frames are pretty heavy for what they are.

To hit your weight goals, a custom-built crome-moly frame is likely in order.

What does the CBR500R motor + cooling system weigh?
How 'bout your wheels (and tires)?

I'm not trying to put water on your fire.   

Consider that many modern air-cooled single cylinder dirt bikes weigh about what you're shooting for.

Good luck -- I'll keep watching your thread.   I'm interested in seeing what you come up with!

Should have said dry weight lol. Motor is 115, frame after I rebuilt it is very light, have to weigh it. I'd guess 25 pounds tops. The 33mm front end is less than the 35mm thant came on that bike. And the aluminum rims will help some. I think I will be close. Keep in mind, no frills anywhere, I will do a tiny headlight, no signals, small tank, the seat weighs nil since it's plastic, and all the little components do add up.

Go with a Lithium battery.    They weigh practically nothing.

Are you doing clip-ons or regular handlebars.    Definitely go with aluminum there too!

.

Yes and yes! I honestly think it's doable. Btw it's a cb350 front drum, and cb350f rear wheel since I have spares. And the exhaust will be very light, i'll make something interesting but very light cone.I guess I'll have to weigh every component. If I hit that goal, the power to weight ratio will be fantastic 

[jag767]

A view into the insanity

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I am thrilled at the prospect of a bike that light.

[jag767]

I am thrilled at the prospect of a bike that light.

I honestly think 270 is a no brainer dry. We're talking 50 lbs lighter than a full dressed cb350. The frame is lighter, motor maybe a tad lighter, wheels a bit lighter, no fenders, lighter seat, no fork covers etc, no signals, li ion battery, aluminum bars, tiny lights, no passenger pegs, aluminum rearsets, lighter exhaust for sure, one tiny gauge, and I'm sure there's things I'm forgetting, but I think that's enough to do it. If I hit the 270, with 60 hp at best, that's a better power to weight ratio than my worked monster 750, which I consider quick!  And what's better is I get my narrow wheels I've been dying for on the monster. If there's enough traction it should wheelie for days 

Also, that's .57 the weight of a cx500, which is the heaviest thing I could find with 33mm forks, so they will be fine. Hell, the cb350 front drum should be more than enough braking too boot! The front end was a bolt on walk in the park, but the rear wheel will have no such luck me thinks. I have to weld in the axle hole, then have it re cut for 17mm. I have no idea if the axle is too long, or too short, and even less idea if the sprockets will line up. Rolling the dice and keeping my fingers crossed for lady luck!

I honestly can't for the life of me figure out why I didn't do this in the first place 

[jag767]

Ordered what i need to finish the fuel tank. I have to modify the shape to clear the frame, and fit the fuel pump. Never did a tank before 

[RAFster122s]

The CX fork twist and are not that great a design, your brace will help a lot.  I think you might have chosen better.  I think I would have gone Goldwing and accepted the light weight penalty.  The RaceTech Gold Valve emulators and other bits in a 550 or 750 fork generally serve to deliver very nice results with excellent damping and rebound control. Not sure if they can be fitted to CX500.
You will want some good brakes, last thing you need for quick bike is under performing brakes.  The big SS discs are quite heavy compared to modern floating caliper and lightweight disc.

Look forward to more as you develop it.

David

But

[jag767]

The CX fork twist and are not that great a design, your brace will help a lot.  I think you might have chosen better.  I think I would have gone Goldwing and accepted the light weight penalty.  The RaceTech Gold Valve emulators and other bits in a 550 or 750 fork generally serve to deliver very nice results with excellent damping and rebound control. Not sure if they can be fitted to CX500.
You will want some good brakes, last thing you need for quick bike is under performing brakes.  The big SS discs are quite heavy compared to modern floating caliper and lightweight disc.

Look forward to more as you develop it.

David

But

I don't think you read it right. Forks are off a 350f. I was using a cx as an example for weight. I had them on hand, same as the wheels. The drum will stop this light bike no problem.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I may have mentioned it earlier, but my buddy built a 550 with a Kawasaki EX500 twin punched out to 600cc.  He made the bike so light that the stock 550 front forks worked great.  Note: no modern fork, no fork brace.

http://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/2013/08/the-thorn-by-twinline-motorcycles.html

[jag767]

Great bike! Yea i have no concern of the front end or drums, it is more than sufficient.

[jas67]

I don't think you read it right. Forks are off a 350f. I was using a cx as an example for weight. I had them on hand, same as the wheels. The drum will stop this light bike no problem.

If you find that they don't, but, you want to stick with drums (which look COOL), maybe try to adapt a 4LS front hub from a Suzuki 750GT!

[jag767]

I don't think you read it right. Forks are off a 350f. I was using a cx as an example for weight. I had them on hand, same as the wheels. The drum will stop this light bike no problem.

If you find that they don't, but, you want to stick with drums (which look COOL), maybe try to adapt a 4LS front hub from a Suzuki 750GT!

Haha i have a site that has a whole litany of 4ls hubs for a 15mm axle, and they all break the bank! Lol

[jas67]

I don't think you read it right. Forks are off a 350f. I was using a cx as an example for weight. I had them on hand, same as the wheels. The drum will stop this light bike no problem.

If you find that they don't, but, you want to stick with drums (which look COOL), maybe try to adapt a 4LS front hub from a Suzuki 750GT!

Haha i have a site that has a whole litany of 4ls hubs for a 15mm axle, and they all break the bank! Lol

I didn't say they were cheap!   

How 'bout an 8LS brake!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I don't think you read it right. Forks are off a 350f. I was using a cx as an example for weight. I had them on hand, same as the wheels. The drum will stop this light bike no problem.

If you find that they don't, but, you want to stick with drums (which look COOL), maybe try to adapt a 4LS front hub from a Suzuki 750GT!

Haha i have a site that has a whole litany of 4ls hubs for a 15mm axle, and they all break the bank! Lol

For a while there, M3 Racing was offering a beautiful 4LS rear hub for CR-style builds. 

[jag767]

I don't think you read it right. Forks are off a 350f. I was using a cx as an example for weight. I had them on hand, same as the wheels. The drum will stop this light bike no problem.

If you find that they don't, but, you want to stick with drums (which look COOL), maybe try to adapt a 4LS front hub from a Suzuki 750GT!

Haha i have a site that has a whole litany of 4ls hubs for a 15mm axle, and they all break the bank! Lol

I didn't say they were cheap!   

How 'bout an 8LS brake!

Good god man! They must weigt a ton!

[jag767]

I don't think you read it right. Forks are off a 350f. I was using a cx as an example for weight. I had them on hand, same as the wheels. The drum will stop this light bike no problem.

If you find that they don't, but, you want to stick with drums (which look COOL), maybe try to adapt a 4LS front hub from a Suzuki 750GT!

Haha i have a site that has a whole litany of 4ls hubs for a 15mm axle, and they all break the bank! Lol

For a while there, M3 Racing was offering a beautiful 4LS rear hub for CR-style builds.

Yeah... to dream. Lol. I have to be budget friendly, and I think at some point if the wheel is crazy heavy on a tiny little bike it starts to not make much sense.

Out of curiousity I looked up race classes, and apparently there's one for the cbr500r, wonder if this counts 

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

What kind of drum hub do you have pictured (2LS)?

[jag767]

What kind of drum hub do you have pictured (2LS)?

350 twin 2ls 180mm. I used one on my 350f which was heavier and it did the job just fine.