Author Topic: 550 rocker cover fix (Read 7600 times)

Kevino · « **on:** October 12, 2017, 07:54:41 PM »

has anyone come up with a fix for the rocker cover for the spinning shafts? i think i read somewhere about an o-ring on the end cap? and other than getting a newer pinned shaft rocker cover?

mine seems to be getting worse $:-\$

TwoTired · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2017, 08:21:58 PM »

As it gets worse, the cam and rockers wear progressively uneven.

The oring insertion is a prevention method. But, once wear occurs, it loses effectiveness.

When I get some shop time. I'd like to try installing set screws to force the shaft back into proper alignment and keep the shafts from turning.
The question is if there is enough material over the bearing surface to properly support the set screws. Or, if welding on additional aluminum will be required.

If it works, every worn out early 550 cover can be placed back into full and proper service.

Cheers,

BomberMann650 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2017, 09:57:59 PM »

Oh crap I was supposed to mail those to lostboy

dave500 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2017, 02:03:07 AM »

gday loyd,yeah that's a great idea to "butcher"(read return to service) them back to proper service,its the same on the 500s bombermann650!they share the same rocker cover assembly,ive seen some very worn out ones loyd and it only seems to affect the outboard left side? with the intake being worst on the ones ive come across?any thoughts?

TwoTired · « **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2017, 02:29:56 AM »

I agree Dave,it's the most drastic on the left side in my examples. Though there is clearly wear among the other positions, too.

I notice that it doesn't wear at the bottom of the shaft bores, only the top, the direction that the valve springs and the cam lobes push. The dream is that installing set screws from the top on either side of the rocker, onto the shafts, would force the shafts to seat down into the unworn portion of the shaft bores, as well as prevent any further rotation. This would restore original shaft and rocker geometry.

I haven't worked out how large the set screws should be, what the best thread pitch should be, or if there is enough metal thickness to provide proper support against the valve spring and cam lobe pressures.

It would, of course, make the top of the valve cover look funny. But,there is a certain flair to frankenstien's neck with those bolts poking out.

I've got two or three covers to practice on, currently 700 miles away, though.

Cheers,

dave500 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2017, 02:35:27 AM »

yeah good call,some fail some don't?some fail early some go forever?it was enough for Honda to improve the design though and I keep a look out for that later design.

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2017, 02:43:37 AM »

Well I was working on an idea but SOMEONE is slacking on sending me a spare "core" cover. I won't mention any names but he Moo's a lot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

flatlander · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2017, 03:20:13 AM »

strynboen has an old worn cover of mine that he wanted to work with, for a fix. not sure what progress he's made, though.

dave500 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2017, 03:26:53 AM »

to fix em their best caught early,if they are way worn its best to find a replacement,all ideas and fixes will work best on the lesser worn units,if its excessive forget it,some allow the rocker adjustment screw tip back end to actually hit the inside of the rocker cover screw cap,umm,that should've been making enough rattle to alert someone?

Deltarider · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2017, 04:27:52 AM »

Quote

yeah good call,some fail some don't?some fail early some go forever?it was enough for Honda to improve the design though and I keep a look out for that later design.

This is a good topic that I read with interest. Although even my CB500K2 (ED) has the Honda improved rocker cover, I came across a CB550K2, imported from the US that hadn't. The bike, practically new, was for sale but a few things kept me doubting whether I should buy it or not. Firstly, if I'd bought it, there'd been quite some things I'd wanted to replace: the horrible handlebars and no use headlight, speedo (in miles), too big indicators, silencers, etc. Nevertheless I took some pictures, because with not even 11k miles, the engine would maybe have been a good future replacement for my own 500 power plant (85k miles). Here is what puzzled me: although the bike was clearly a K2 model (assembled in '76 mind you!) and although I could tell by details the engine had never been touched, when I looked up the enginenumber (CB550E-1082436), I was flabbergasted to learn from the parts list that that serial number still had the old rocker cover. Huh? How can that be? By 1976 Honda must have been aware of the problem. Or did Honda maybe have some sort of a solution 'in between' to address the problem? Any of you guys knows more on this? Anyway, I didn't feel like buying a bike with an inferior rocker cover compared to the one that's on mine (also assembled in '76

!). I contacted the guy who had imported the bike and tried to persuade him not to sell the bike but to keep it for himself and since he lived only a few blocks away, I offered him all the help he eventually would need. Never heard of him no more. I don't know whom he sold it to (some surgeon?) but the offer still stands and moreover, I do it for free. If any of you Dutchmen know who the new owner is, I have lots of info on his bike and would be glad to share my knowledge with him and offer my support. I hate to see such a pristine bike fall in the wrong mechanical hands as it eventually did. If the owner had known me, it would, for a start, have saved him the incorrect mounting of the new four repro silencers (as seen by me later at some workshop where he had it done).

strynboen · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2017, 04:56:53 AM »

im vorking on a idea to drill through the camthain tunnel...and get a long shaft fitted vith a small heighsped steel cutter..mounted in a hole in the shaft..but the problem is the shaft is to thin and weak to make a sentered hole..it need some suport...and the suport holes ..is exattly the vorn part..so hope to get a drilled hole so the cutter shaft can go through and fit in the other side..to senter and suport it..in the better holes in the opper side..
the isea vas to veld some bushings in..so it have no to be so akkurat presise..the bushings can be sentered up id the boring is made some bigger then the bushings

Deltarider · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2017, 03:52:58 AM »

Quote

Or did Honda maybe have some sort of a solution 'in between' to address the problem? Any of you guys knows more on this?

Nobody? It seems strange to me that models assembled in '76 still had that unmodified 8 rocker shaft cover. If there was a solution 'in between', others could copy it. Anybody?

dave500 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2017, 04:33:10 AM »

I believe theres only the two types,honda just used the old stock till it ran out?they perhaps thought"whos gonna notice?"here we are all these years later noticing?

flatlander · « **Reply #13 on:** October 14, 2017, 05:54:00 AM »

delta, it's not that clear with the years. i have a 76 model 550F1 that came with the older type cover.
engine no. is 1130605. based on frame and engine number, according to honda japan it can have been assembled somewhere between 25 april 1975 en 10 september 1976. it was first registered in the netherlands in march 1976 so it was in the early half of the production run. maybe this info helps, i don't know.

i'm only aware of the 2 types of cover, no in-between solution.

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2017, 08:05:11 AM »

I'm telling you I have a solution idea I'm just waiting for a spare cover and then I will post what progress I make.

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Deltarider · « **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2017, 08:06:56 AM »

Thanks Dave and Flatlander. Have to agree with Bryanj: Honda and serialnumbers... it's a mystery.

TwoTired · « **Reply #16 on:** October 14, 2017, 08:59:13 AM »

http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb550/

Service Bulletins:
S/B 500/550 #8 issued 8/11/76

Improved cover installed by factory.

CB550K engine Serial #1083641 and subsequent
CB550F engine Serial #1133172 and subsequent

According to the HMIG (Honda Motorcycle Identification Guide)
Published 1988 by the American Honda Motor Company,
these numbers occurred within the model year 1976.

Deltarider · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2017, 09:24:22 AM »

The parts list for the CB500K2 [ED, F, G] (1976.05.20!!) on p.13* draws the line between serial enginenumber 2170314 and 2170315, hence my remark concerning the serialnumbers that probably only Honda fully understood.
* http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_1.pdf

TwoTired · « **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2017, 10:45:27 AM »

Any assumption that Honda represents a solitary consciousness, is a false conceptual basis for understanding.

But, peering into the rat hole presented, you might read the cover of the referenced parts list where it specifies the contents apply to the 500K2 (ED, F, and G),
Where these codes refer to:
European Direct Sales
France
General Export

None of which apply to American imports of the 500/550 production, and especially the CB500K2. The S/B I posted was clearly from American Honda. So, I am fairly confident the engine numbers are relevant to this continent.

If you are looking for absolution between American Honda documentation, and European documentation, I think you'll find none. Undoubtedly Honda corporate had divisional entities under the Honda corporate umbrella, which ran their divisions and documentation subsets autonomously, however they saw fit, as long as the divisions showed profitability. I don't expect Honda corporate had documentation police to enforce a documentation policy among their various distribution authorities. And each subdivision had regulatory requirements related to the sales market intended. I still remember the nightmares trying to make products importable for the world markets outside of the USA. Cripes, even Canada had regulatory nuances different from the US. A one product fits all is a very complex undertaking. Honda sidestepped much of that with divisional sales borderlines, almost certainly for economical reasons.

I will point out that the Honda4fun, is not affiliated with, or endorsed by, Honda corporate in any way. In fact, Honda4fun have altered the contents with (at least) the Honda4fun logo on each page, taking credit for someone else's work. No assurance if they also made other modifications, as we don't have access to the original document. If Honda doesn't endorse, Honda can't be blamed for the misunderstandings of the public's interpretational machinations.

But, thanks for hijacking this otherwise straightforward thread for your own amusement and no furtherance of the "fix-the-bad-cover" thread goals.

Deltarider · « **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2017, 11:56:41 AM »

Sorry, I annoyed you again. But know that I am very, very honoured by your reply. That particular parts list is bona fide (the original is on my desk) and I cannot appreciate your attempt trying to make the respectable Honda4Fun site seem unreliable, this without even knowing what you're talking about. FYI, they are by far the most conscious site, whereas here... I already have given up trying to have invalid data removed or repaired. May I invite you to go to the UK site? At the moment also there honourable members like Bryanj try to make sense of this strange numbering by Honda. So I'm in good company. Oh and yes, the world is bigger than just the US. I know this can be a bit much for your mindset but bikes are behaving very bad and have developed this nasty habit to show up almost everywhere: European models in Canada or US and US models in Europe (UK, Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands, but let me stop here to prevent overload in your system).

TwoTired · « **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2017, 12:18:24 PM »

Quote

...whereas here I already have given up trying to have invalid data removed or repaired.

Nice to have good news every once in a while.

Found a bumper sticker that seems to apply.

Deltarider · « **Reply #21 on:** October 14, 2017, 12:25:47 PM »

So glad you found it! Let's hope it will help you. BTW, cordial greetings from Fluffy, my airfilter element. It's still surviving your prognosis, laws of physics or whatever.

TwoTired · « **Reply #22 on:** October 14, 2017, 01:28:53 PM »

Ok, let's see just how long Delta will adamantly destruct a thread originated in the US, with a dutch based pollution agenda?
Now it's morphed into an air filter branch out in a desperate attempt to lure in yet another tangential argument.

Your turn, delta... Anything else you want to argue about way off topic in this thread?

Can't give up now, can you? Last word being your only forte, silly and irrelevant as it is.

I do wonder how you tolerate an inferior web site forum such as this one, that does not yield to your sensibilities (such as they are). Which I might add was yet another tangential interjection and off topic in this thread, that you insisted upon introducing.
Just how high and firm is your soapbox? Ladder equipped?

Is there anything you can actually contribute to a 550 rocker cover fix, besides derailment?

In your vast experience, will finger in dyke repair attempts work for a worn rocker cover over the long term? Perhaps miniature windmill grinding wheel augmentations will cure all?

Come on, you can fix this if you are righteous! Be magnanimous and share! Surely the legendary dutch motorcycle manufacturing expertise can be taught to the entire world so all us lessers can do this right once and for all, garnering undying adulation in perpetuity.

I dare you to stay on topic. I don't think you can. Doesn't fit with your overlord agenda.

BomberMann650 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 14, 2017, 01:32:34 PM »

Fellas, fellas! We're all friends here!

One day I'll get off my arse and mail some dead heads to lostboy and we'll see if there is a cure for the curse!

Ace Blackwell · « **Reply #24 on:** October 14, 2017, 08:42:59 PM »

Well I don't have any experience in rocker covers specifically but without see directly what the issue is, the verbiage makes it sound like one end of the shaft is wallowing the cap area out of round or at least egg shape. Similar to the set screw idea, is possible to shim the gap at the top with something similar to one side of a rod bearing? Or bore out the cap area and add a sleeve? You would have to bore to the center point of the original ID or you would end up shifting the center point of the shaft.

I apologize if I'm way off base, just thinking out loud.

News:

Author Topic: 550 rocker cover fix (Read 7600 times)