Topic: priming oil pump with kickstarter

[Johnny340]

I have rebuilt my oil pump (and whole engine) and wondered the best way to prime the oil pump before initial start without using a starter motor since one isn't installed.
Right now the pump is primed and sitting upright ready to mount but I did not seal with grease or anything.  Do I mount the engine in the frame first then mount the pump to keep it level and primed?  Or could I mount the pump on the engine now and simply add a liter of oil down the valve cover after the engine is installed and kick it over, and over, and over?
Thanks!

[BomberMann650]

It’s not gonna happen with the kicker.

[PeWe]

I had oil inside the pump after restore replacing the seal, o-rings and the rest of the kit from Vital. Oil enough to verify the function rotating its wheel. Then mounted it in the engine that went in after a while. 1.5 liter in engine via cam chain tunnel with engine in bike. I have the frame kit and can mount valve cover with engine in frame.

The std way to install the engine is without oil plug that will scratch the frame and be an obstacle too so much oil cannot be there.
If the oil pump valve is tight the oil in tank will not flow without the pump is working.

I checked the oil pump function via the oil galley, the nut off and saw the oil flowing out after 2x5s run of starter. It flow rather much so be prepared to clean the floor
I doubt that kickstarter will help much, do the electric starter button and do 5 sec burst. I got pressure after around 15-20s.

In the 80's I just assembled the engine and started it. I remember friends watching me when I have just installed it. Open fuel valve, full choke, ignition off and used kickstarter a few strokes. Ignition on while I said see and learn and it started at first kick.
Both friends had English bikes and were surprised.

I'm more concerned today while listening to the valve cover and think about the oil channels to cam, not obstructed by dirt in one of the 2 oil orificies?

[Johnny340]

I had oil inside the pump after restore replacing the seal, o-rings and the rest of the kit from Vital. Oil enough to verify the function rotating its wheel. Then mounted it in the engine that went in after a while. 1.5 liter in engine via cam chain tunnel with engine in bike. I have the frame kit and can mount valve cover with engine in frame.

The std way to install the engine is without oil plug that will scratch the frame and be an obstacle too so much oil cannot be there.
If the oil pump valve is tight the oil in tank will not flow without the pump is working.

I checked the oil pump function via the oil galley, the nut off and saw the oil flowing out after 2x5s run of starter. It flow rather much so be prepared to clean the floor
I doubt that kickstarter will help much, do the electric starter button and do 5 sec burst. I got pressure after around 15-20s.

In the 80's I just assembled the engine and started it. I remember friends watching me when I have just installed it. Open fuel valve, full choke, ignition off and used kickstarter a few strokes. Ignition on while I said see and learn and it started at first kick.
Both friends had English bikes and were surprised.

I'm more concerned today while listening to the valve cover and think about the oil channels to cam, not obstructed by dirt in one of the 2 oil orificies?

Thanks for the constructive reply but I don't have the starter or it's starter gear installed so the electric start is not an option.  I know all galleries are clear.  I used assembly lube and the oil pump is currently primed, and still will be if I mount it last, I figure.  How did everyone else, who blocked off the starter, prime their oil pumps?

I have the frame kit too.  The whole oil pan can go on with the engine in the frame, correct?

[Patrick]

You can prime the oil pump by pouring oil through the galley plug on the right side. But you will never get oil pressure to register with the kickstarter. You're going to have to start the motor.

Patrick

[robvangulik]

Remove the plugs, put it in first gear and push it 10 yards.

[strynboen]

hold a battery drill on the generator/ shaft..and no sparkplugs...its a bit unsafe to do it in the ignision side...torque is hard on the small 6mm bolt

[PeWe]

You can remove and mount the oil pan with engine in frame. Even with oem 4-4 pipes on too. That’s a good idea when you have used the bike around 1000km after rebuild. Clean the oil pump strainer where sealer and dirt will clogg the net. Also good to clean pan and look for problems like broken clutch, rubber debris from tensioners, ev transmission damages and other things you do not want to find.
I’ll open my pan wintertime whith 10.000 km intervals after the initial break-in check.

With frame kit no need to fill engine with oil before it is seated in frame with all oil lines and breather connected to oil tank. Fill 2 quarts thru cam chain tunnel + 1 quart in oil tank or 1.5+ 1.5. Verify oil level after a 30 minute ride when oil dipstick will show correct level.

[PeWe]

Drill around the engine on ignition side can (will) crack the big nut. I saw the result of that for 2 weeks ago when a CB750 mechanic guy had tested his ”brilliant” idea

[Johnny340]

Thanks for all the good ideas and comments! 

[38rudge]

I have just been through the process of changing a pump and can only offer my experience.

The most important thing is to make sure that the pump is fully primed. It took me three attempts but it is important to ensure that oil is flowing copiously out of the outlet port as you turn the drive gear and NOT that no air bubbles are no longer being released.  You may find it necessary to pull the non return valve away from its stop position and tilt the outlet port up to assist getting air out of the pump body but once you see oil flowing out of the port it should be primed.

After fitting the pump I kicked it over with the kickstart several times until the oil pressure light went out, so it  can be done with the kickstart alone, though it may be a number if the oil filter housing is empty. The important bit is fully ensuring that the pump is fully primed first.

It is also not necessary to fit the sump plate at this stage, provided your non return valve is OK, as you should only be drawing oil from the tank and oil will only be returning to the sump once it is fully circulating. This may be useful if you find that your pump is actually not primed and you have to remove it again to try again. Saves on having to keep removing the sump plate and damaging the gasket until you are sure oil is fully circulating.
 

[PeWe]

Drill around the engine on ignition side can (will) crack the big nut. I saw the result of that for 2 weeks ago when a CB750 mechanic guy had tested his ”brilliant” idea

I remembered wrong, not the nut that cracked, it was the advancer tabs the nut grip. I remembered that when reading Marissa's CB500 build.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166160.msg1959978.html#msg1959978

[Johnny340]

I have just been through the process of changing a pump and can only offer my experience.

The most important thing is to make sure that the pump is fully primed. It took me three attempts but it is important to ensure that oil is flowing copiously out of the outlet port as you turn the drive gear and NOT that no air bubbles are no longer being released.  You may find it necessary to pull the non return valve away from its stop position and tilt the outlet port up to assist getting air out of the pump body but once you see oil flowing out of the port it should be primed.

After fitting the pump I kicked it over with the kickstart several times until the oil pressure light went out, so it  can be done with the kickstart alone, though it may be a number if the oil filter housing is empty. The important bit is fully ensuring that the pump is fully primed first.

It is also not necessary to fit the sump plate at this stage, provided your non return valve is OK, as you should only be drawing oil from the tank and oil will only be returning to the sump once it is fully circulating. This may be useful if you find that your pump is actually not primed and you have to remove it again to try again. Saves on having to keep removing the sump plate and damaging the gasket until you are sure oil is fully circulating.

Thank you 38rudge! I followed your method since I don’t have electric start and primed the oil pump fully before installing it. Yes, you need to let the air out of the relief end and then it primes quickly. I kicked it over about 20 kicks and I had oil pressure on the gauge!