Topic: CB750 Wet Sump Conversion - Sumpthing

[FuZZie]

Yea NickRafAcosta may have put him to task posting it in racing.

[underdog]

  I kind of like it myself. CB750A's are wet sump with no tank and get along fine. Also, it must use up some HP pumping oil up into the tank, albeit probably miniscule. I also like to see the regular guys making quality parts and trying new things. Even if you don't care for it, you have to respect the work that went into it.

[gschuld]

As someone who does a bit of complicated metalwork myself, I’m thinking the price is very reasonable for what is offered(assuming it performs as intended of course)

I couldn’t care less what kind of pets and plants he has😁, but feel free to share.  I would like to see the results of his work tested by someone well known and respected around here to offer a fair non biased opinion.  I think that would benefit everyone.

George

[calj737]

Another member or two, has a thread elsewhere and have purchased it. They are awaiting its arrival.

[scottly]

we've also blown several engines to heaven during the early stages.

How did your conversion blow the engines to heaven? Did you not understand the oiling system in the early stages?

[turboguzzi]

we've also blown several engines to heaven during the early stages.

How did your conversion blow the engines to heaven? Did you not understand the oiling system in the early stages?

I think you are a bit severe here scottly.  Someone can understand pretty well an oiling system but once you introduce to it a major change like this, it will not necessarily behave like you have in mind. Oiling system dev is one area that even factories use trial and error to develop.  happened to me with my supermono racer oil system design, took a few tries to get it to function right.

[Sam Green Racing]

Sorry on my part for being a doubter Bert but with the Internet being what it is today, we have to make sure by vetting and that shoe thing that cropped up twice had me in real doubt but it's sorted now and thanks for the return of my email and please check out my reply.
In respect of the product and the price, I don't see a problem there.
For the minimalist cafe racer guys and people that want to get rid of the clutter, Ideal.
For the Drag Racer struggling to find a place to put Nitrous bottles, air shiffter tanks and the like, Ideal.
For the Roundy Roundy Road Race guys that want to lower the center of gravity, Ideal.
For the people with to much money and don't need it, just send the $500 to me, that will be Ideal as well.

Carry on.

Sam.

[calj737]

For the people with to much money and don't need it, just send the $500 to me, that will be Ideal as well.

Whats your addy again, Sam? 

[turboguzzi]

just sell each donor a run on your auto sam, i think you could have a nice business going on there

[Sam Green Racing]

Stop it you two, you just made me pee myself laughing. 

[calj737]

Stop it you two, you just made me pee myself laughing. 

Getting old ain't for pu$$ies, eh, Sam? 

[voxonda]

Hey folks,

I would like to try one in my CR. Expecting no temp issue's due to use of large oilcooler. Also feel it can have a positive effect on weight and weight distribution, cause weight is centered more front/down. Only setback is, due to deep sump cant use my 4 into 1 exhaust......

Cheers Rob

[Sam Green Racing]

I thought you might like it Rob and while your on, what happened to the dry clutch you were developing ?

Sam.

[voxonda]

I thought you might like it Rob and while your on, what happened to the dry clutch you were developing ?

Sam.

Sam,
Yes I like the idea for the mentioned reasons. The dry clutch was a dual effort and since the relationship has ended, the development has come to a stop. Secondly my health issues stopped me from doing virtually anything, but things are still improving so I should be able to make some renewed efforts in that direction.

Rob

[Sam Green Racing]

Sorry Rob, I forgot about your health issues, I can't remember sod all since my accident.

[gschuld]

Rob,

I hope your feelings better soon.  And I’m very glad you are interested in trying one on your road racer.  Perfect center of gravity situation, but yes, it will require not using the 4 into 1 system, so a 4 into 4 type exhaust would be the way to go for your road racer.  I have matching 4 into 1 exhausts myself(including spare) and custom made fiberglass belly pans that are form fit to them.  Plus all my oil tanks and mounts, custom oil lines, oil cooler setups, etc are done and ready.  Too far down that path to change out everything related for me.

But for drag racers like Billy and Frankie, etc. putting the oil weight low and fwd is a big positive as well.  If starting a new bike from scratch, totally worth considering.

Anyway, Rob’s seal of approval would do wonders for consumer (and supplier) confidence in this product.

George

[754]

4 into 4 and some sump showing.... shades of MV Augusta.. oooh yeah..

[FuZZie]

Anyway, Rob’s seal of approval would do wonders for consumer (and supplier) confidence in this product.

That's a good point!

[slikwilli420]

Rob,

I hope your feelings better soon.  And I’m very glad you are interested in trying one on your road racer.  Perfect center of gravity situation, but yes, it will require not using the 4 into 1 system, so a 4 into 4 type exhaust would be the way to go for your road racer.  I have matching 4 into 1 exhausts myself(including spare) and custom made fiberglass belly pans that are form fit to them.  Plus all my oil tanks and mounts, custom oil lines, oil cooler setups, etc are done and ready.  Too far down that path to change out everything related for me.

But for drag racers like Billy and Frankie, etc. putting the oil weight low and fwd is a big positive as well.  If starting a new bike from scratch, totally worth considering.

Anyway, Rob’s seal of approval would do wonders for consumer (and supplier) confidence in this product.

George

George, remember that the 4-4 would be a weight penalty, not to mention a big cost. Additionally, now that you are wet sump, you will need a much larger belly pan. AHRMA rules dictate a 1qt capacity pan for dry sump or full engine capacity plus nominal reserve for wet sump. It will take a lot of redesigning to get it all right.

[gschuld]

Well, I don’t have to worry about it as I’m too far down my current path to change everything now.  But I am very curious as to how it works out in a demanding road race application.  If if can handle that, it should be able to handle most anything.  Go Rob.👍

George

[Captain]

 Anyone discussing this subject should reacquaint or educate themselves with the very reason Dry Sump is used in the first instance
  # 1 most effective means of removing air from the body of oil
 # 2  more effective and efficient cooling

 There are more but the above are two of the most important in HD environments (racing)

 Captain

[Bert Jan]

Hey folks,

I would like to try one in my CR. Expecting no temp issue's due to use of large oilcooler. Also feel it can have a positive effect on weight and weight distribution, cause weight is centered more front/down. Only setback is, due to deep sump cant use my 4 into 1 exhaust......

Cheers Rob

Hey Rob,

I see you're my neighbour (in terms of how far the internet reaches) so we could make this happen very quickly. I'd like to hear some thoughts from you, and even better, would love if you could take the kit for a spin. The exhaust clearance is an issue but only to bikes that are done yet. My main focus was on builders still tinkering with the tank, but now i see there could be a demand in other sectors aswell, which is cool!

(Ik volg je al een tijdje omdat ik die droge koppeling een heel toffe vinding vond. Kan er nu niks meer over vinden helaas maar las wel hierboven dat dat een beetje is gestopt. Heb je een email adres zodat we wat sneller kunnen communiceren? Ik zit in Groningen maar moet voor klanten dikwijls naar de randstad. Binnenkort even afspreken? Neem ik een kit mee en kan je er even naar kijken.)

[slikwilli420]

Anyone discussing this subject should reacquaint or educate themselves with the very reason it is used in the first instance
  # 1 the most effective means of removing air from the body of oil
 # 2  more effective and efficient cooling
 There are more but the above are the most important

 Captain

Could you say that again in a bit more simpe language? I'm not sure i understand it fully.

Dry sump provides better air/oil separation and the separate tank helps keep oil cooler than having it stored in the engine.

[Sam Green Racing]

Hey folks,

I would like to try one in my CR. Expecting no temp issue's due to use of large oilcooler. Also feel it can have a positive effect on weight and weight distribution, cause weight is centered more front/down. Only setback is, due to deep sump cant use my 4 into 1 exhaust......

Cheers Rob

Hey Rob,

I see you're my neighbour (in terms of how far the internet reaches) so we could make this happen very quickly. I'd like to hear some thoughts from you, and even better, would love if you could take the kit for a spin. The exhaust clearance is an issue but only to bikes that are done yet. My main focus was on builders still tinkering with the tank, but now i see there could be a demand in other sectors aswell, which is cool!

(Ik volg je al een tijdje omdat ik die droge koppeling een heel toffe vinding vond. Kan er nu niks meer over vinden helaas maar las wel hierboven dat dat een beetje is gestopt. Heb je een email adres zodat we wat sneller kunnen communiceren? Ik zit in Groningen maar moet voor klanten dikwijls naar de randstad. Binnenkort even afspreken? Neem ik een kit mee en kan je er even naar kijken.)

Bert, I brought Rob in on this because he is a top guy in the world of CB750 racing and is right on your door step, about 165km I think it said.

Sam. 

[Bert Jan]

Anyone discussing this subject should reacquaint or educate themselves with the very reason it is used in the first instance
  # 1 the most effective means of removing air from the body of oil
 # 2  more effective and efficient cooling
 There are more but the above are the most important

 Captain

Could you say that again in a bit more simpe language? I'm not sure i understand it fully.

Dry sump provides better air/oil separation and the separate tank helps keep oil cooler than having it stored in the engine.

Read it a couple times more, got it and deleted my previous message asking for the explaination. I get it now, thanks.

I'm afraid we will never know for sure why the engineers made the 750 dry and his little brothers all wet. Could be a performance thingy but to be honest, the hondamatic and the 350/400/500/550 and 650 are still around so i think we'll be fine. In the tests, we've had oil being cooler than stock system.

As said before, the reason i started with designing the kit is for it to be used for cosmetic reasons. In the last months i came to the conclusion road racers and other performance people might want to use it aswell. That's why i added the tabs on the inside (thanks to George) so those in need could fit a custom anti-slosh unit. Otherwise you can just leave those tabs.

Today, we went to the box-factory because i wanted to ship the kit in a special made shippingbox for safety reasons. Here's a picture:
This box is damaged because we took it in and out 20 times. They boxes are ready this Thursday and the first kits will get shipped Friday.