Topic: Terry's horrible K2 Budget Build.

[Terry in Australia]

OK, so Per thought it a good idea to document the progress of this build, from the sheer misery I experienced on receipt, to the (hopeful) elation when it's done. Now the reason it's a "budget build" is that I'm building it for a mate as a part exchange for his Harley. (yes I know, some folks here don't like Harleys, but I do, and I've got plenty of Honda's, and will be building two more CB750's for myself this year)

It all started when my new friend Dion dropped off the worst imaginable Suzuki T350 that had been laying in a paddock (field) for over 40 years, when he rescued it. All that was salvageable was the bare frame, swingarm and centrestand, top triple (I think) and gauges. He admired my K0 and K2 bitsa, and asked me if I wanted to sell the K2. At that stage it had the worlds worst engine, and I said I'd think about selling it after I rebuilt the engine. He was really keen, but really wanted a more original bike.

Three weeks ago he said he was selling his old Harley Heritage Softail, and I suggested a CB750 + cash his way "deal", as I have a couple of sportsters, but have never owned a "Big Twin". He jumped at it, and as part of the deal he will paint it gloss black (he's a pro race car/custom car builder/fabricator/painter) once he's removed all his "1 percenter" MC insignia from it. He sent me this pic tonight, it's a nice looking thing, just needs to be shiny black, I'm not a fan of flat black, or satin black, except on Z1 engines and motocross bike engines.

Terry's Heritage Softail - pre paint job. by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Anyhoo, I needed a K2 to build for him. My mate Fred said he saw a K2 up in Queensland going cheap on FB, so I contacted the seller and said I'd take it. He said the engine was fcuked, but the frame was good. After the recent floods, and the covid lockdown in Brisbane, it was only sent down this week, and delivered yesterday.

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 9e by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I wanted to go for a ride on my recently rebuilt/re-modelled K2 bitsa, so removed all the parts that the seller had taped to it (with some of the best "100 mile an hour" tape I've ever seen, I was more impressed with the tape than the bike, quite frankly) and had a quick look at what I'd bought.

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 9d by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 9b by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 9c by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 9 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 7 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 8 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 9a by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I decided I needed a ride on my K2 bitsa to clear my head, and apart from the cold and the rain, I did a little over 110 miles, and felt much better for it.

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I sent Dion some pics this morning and asked him if he could do the frame repairs while I built the engine? I can weld, and could fix it, but time waits for no man, and anyway, Dion has much better, younger eyes than me, so said "No problem", and he'll also paint the frame with 2 Pack paint then give it back to me to put the freshly rebuilt engine back into. That'll save me a lot of work. Dion is also gonna paint the tank and side covers Candy Ruby Red, so that's also a win/win for me, I just need to build him a good engine and bolt a bike around it.

It did come with 2 fuel tanks, so hopefully one of them will be good enough. I haven't dared look inside them with the borescope as Frank suggested, but hopefully there'll be one good enough for Dion to paint.

K2 Saturday 10 Apr 2021 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The problem we have in Oz is that due to our 365 day per year riding season, most CB750's have had hard lives over the last 50 years or so, so finding a good one here is like finding a needle in a haystack, as opposed to the US where low mileage bikes are still being pulled out of barns. No biggie, it'll get done.

I'll pull the engine this week, and rest assured, there's a good chance that there'll be more pics of carnage to share.  

[Tintop]

Following along Terry, but I am starting to lose track of which is which. lol

[Trevor from Warragul]

I have an important question about the Softail - what tyre pressures were you going to run on it?  You are aware that incorrect tyre pressures will result in the polar ice caps melting, the moon exploding, and the inevitable decline of western civilization!

[Terry in Australia]

I have an important question about the Softail - what tyre pressures were you going to run on it?  You are aware that incorrect tyre pressures will result in the polar ice caps melting, the moon exploding, and the inevitable decline of western civilization!

Ha ha, yeah I found that out last week Trevor.  Don’t worry, I’ll be strictly following the OEM recommendations from 1993, and installing electronic tyre pressure monitors on all my bikes now (including my motorised bicycle) so that I can be checking (and adjusting) them before, during, and after each ride, as I don’t want to leave my wife a widow due to my thoughtless tyre pressure indifference!

[Terry in Australia]

Following along Terry, but I am starting to lose track of which is which. lol

Ha ha, me too Brian, it didn’t help that I swapped the red tank back from the K0 onto my K2 bitsa, but once we get some nicer weather I’ll paint a tank and sidecovers silver and put them on the bitsa. Once the horrible budget K2 is done and gone to Dion, the next cab off the rank will be my 1970 K1, which, just to add to the confusion, will be red too.

[MauiK3]

You are willing to go where many fear to go.
Impressive.

[Just John]

Softtail looks good.  Close to what is considered Cholo style here in the US.  Just needs fishtail pipes and a lowrider style paint job.  I've got a K3 frame missing the neck if you need pieces to repair the K2 frame.
Regards
John 

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, "Cholo Style" John? Do I need to wear a red flannel shirt buttoned up all the way, and a bandana? I think I know what you mean. My intent is to make it as "naked" as I can once I get my hot little hands on it, I have different, smaller fenders to put on it, that I bought for one of my sporties, but should fit fine. It doesn't need to be a "Dresser" or a "Bagger", it needs to just be as simple (like me..) as possible.

[Terry in Australia]

They (whoever "They" are) say that a condemned man eats a hearty meal, and as I had to go to work at the barracks today, starting at 6am, I decided that I owed it to myself to eat something that I didn't cook, just for a change.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I couldn't eat more than half of it, so the waitress was nice enough to give me a "takeaway" box (doggy bag?) to put half of it into, which I heated up for dinner, but I'm getting ahead of myself again, sorry. Starting at 6am, I get to go home at 2pm, so I stopped for gas, then went to "Dan Murphy's" (big box booze shop) for a dozen bottles of Ginger Joe, then to physio, so "Magic Hands" Norin could give me a "therapeutic massage", paid for, by the good ol' DVA. (arseholes)

I was home by 3.30, so decided that it was time to strip the horrible K2 back to it's bare bones. My little Dewalt rattle gun is a great tool, and made short work of the various fasteners. If I was hoping for any salvageable body parts, I was just pissing in the wind......

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9q by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9n by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 7 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I had to laugh when removing the triple trees, it had ball bearings in the top, and tapered roller bearings in the bottom. I've never seen that before, is this some long forgotten steering performance modification?

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 8 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

It was good to see, that while he was using the wrong size screws in the top triples, he was savvy enough to remember to put the "safety washers" in place so as not to crack the casting. Good work.....

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

A small ray of sunshine was that this is the second bike from "Up North" that I've bought came with the old black Koni shocks. These ones appear to have Honda springs and shrouds, and I'm hoping (possibly against hope) that the damper rods aren't rust pitted. We'll see.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Of course, "All Thread" makes for a great engine mount through bolt.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Oh well, Dion is repairing the frame, so as long as the engine cases are OK, no biggie. Then I saw this:

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9a by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Hmmn, maybe some creative JB Weld? Bloody hell......... Still, onwards and upwards. My cunning plan was to strip the front and rear ends off the frame, so I could then just carefully lay the engine on it's side (on some cardboard, I'm not a barbarian....) and lifting the frame off it.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

This was the reverse of how I installed the engine in the freshly painted K0 frame last year, and it worked pretty well. Well ("well, well well, 3 holes in the ground....") it turns out that it's easier to lay a frame over an engine, than pull the frame off the engine.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9c by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I removed the oil pan, and was happy that I didn't have a litre of engine oil tip all over the driveway, thanks to the PO removing the sump plug and oil filter cannister assembly, probably a long time ago. When I say that he "removed" the sump plug, he first carefully stripped the thread out of the sump pan plug hole, as you'd expect....

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9d by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9e by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9f by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

That's not old sealant, or paint, but dried oil film. Amazing, after 43 years of CB750 ownership, and numerous rebuilds, I've never seen an oil film that I can peel off like a decal. It was almost worth it, just for the experience. Now the PO did tell me that the engine was "Fcuked", so I was happy to see that there wasn't a pile of metal in the oil pan, and the primary chains and tensioner assembly was still intact.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9g by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I then removed the little breather cover on top of the cam cover, but was still struggling to lift the frame off the engine. Many years ago my mate Davey, who's had his K2 since he bought it new in 1972, told me that he was able to remove his cam cover with the engine in the frame many moons ago (Davey weighs around 100 pounds, wringing wet, so was never keen on pulling the engine) by removing the engine mounts and rotating the engine, but I was never sure if this was actually possible, but discovered tonight, that yes, it is indeed possible to remove the cam cover, with the engine still in the frame.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9k by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Who needs one of those expensive frame kits? Well, if it was my bike, I would have cut the frame by now, but Dion wants it "original", so I was happy that I was able to easily lift the frame off the engine after removing the cam cover.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9l by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I loaded the engine onto my two wheeled trolley and wheeled it up to my patio "Winter workshop", then lifted it onto my bike lifter thingy to raise it up as far as I could, before lifting the lump onto my bench. So much for the magic hands of Norin, my physio, I think I undid all her good work on my back an hour or two earlier. Oh well, I can always make another appointment for tomorrow......

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9r by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

First glance at the valve gear was pretty positive, the cam actually looked good, the cam chain is intact, so I presume there are no bent valves.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9p by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

But on closer inspection, I could see some big rust/corrosion deposits on the cam lobes. Bugger.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9t by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr   

Oh well, it looks to be just a stock cam, so no biggie, I've got a few spares. Does anyone want to make any guesses/bets on what it's gonna be like under the head? So far I haven't seen much in the way of corrosion in the engine, except for inside the alternator cover:

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9b by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9i by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

And I'm guessing that the crank is stuck hard, as someone made a concerted effort to turn it using something pretty solid, jammed into the alternator rotor, apparently?

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9j by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

They did get the rotor off, as it fell off the crank and narrowly missed my "Safety moccasin" not that it would have mattered, it's going into the bin. I left it at that, it was getting dark, and I needed to pack up my tools. Tomorrow I'll whip the head off (I've drowned all the cylinder head stud nuts etc in WD40 penetrant) and see what lurks below. A big bore kit would be nice, but would be heart breaking if the pistons were rusted into the bore (Suzuki T350 style) so maybe I should just hope that I can get the cylinder block off without having to cut the conrods and press the pistons out, like Don did.

I'm hoping that some of the internals are salvageable, but who knows what lurks within. It'd be exciting, if it wasn't so miserable. If the worst becomes the worst, I've got several parts engines that I can rat. I haven't done an autopsy on the K2 bitsa's old engine that the gearbox locked up on, or the Swamp Rat K2's engine that lost all oil pressure on it's first ride, plus tubs of good useable parts, so there are plenty of options. It's probably just my inbuilt masochism, but I'm looking forward to tearing the rest of the engine down to see what horrors I'll find. More tomorrow.

K2 misery 12 Apr 2021 9m by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr


 

[Alan F.]

I've actually heard of tapered roller lower and ball bearing upper, the lower does the heavy lifting and the upper keeps the steering quick and light. But I've never tried it myself.

I can't wait to see and hear what that big twin turns out yo be when you're done with it. Sounds like a lean hot rod.

[BenelliSEI]

Terry...... Thanks for starting another thread. I was lying awake at night trying to keep it all straight in my head!! This will help a lot!

Not convinced about the Harley (never owned one), but after the “Chopper” maybe I should try one too? Watching closely, Good Luck.

[RAFster122s]

Were the fasteners that weren't replaced any good, didn't look like much else on this beast is worth anything other than to be scrapped. Maybe the cylinders with newer different liners will be the only thing this bike produces of value...not seeing much otherwise.

[MauiK3]

Will you repair the broken casing mount?
You've got quite a project there, best of luck

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, yep, lots of trash and not much treasure so far, but who knows? I guess I’ll find out more this afternoon when I conduct the full autopsy.

To answer a couple of questions, yes I am going to attempt a repair on that broken mount underneath, using some of those alloy soldering/brazing sticks. I bought a heap of them recently and although I’ve had mixed results in the past I figure that I can’t make the damage any worse, but I am kicking myself now for throwing out a set of junk cases as part of my pre-Christmas yard cleanup last year, as I could have chopped that section out to braze in.

The engine that was in the K2 bitsa has some (poorly) repaired cracks, so as I’ll probably be using the crank, rods, cylinder block and head from that engine, I may as well chop a chunk off those trashed cases to solder/braze in.

John, regarding Harleys, they are a much different riding experience from CB750’s, Z1’s etc. You either love them or hate them, there’s really no middle ground. I sold my 1976 (built in 1975) Kawasaki Z900 (KZ900 in the US, and Canada, I presume?) to buy a 1985 Harley XLH1000 (“Iron Head”) Sportster because my mate Davey (yep, the one who told me you could take the cam cover off a CB750 engine with the engine in the frame) had a 1979 AMF Sportster and I really liked that torquey V Twin. Sadly back then I was a poor broke Army sergeant with a young wife at home looking after two little kids and we needed a second car, so the Harley didn’t stay long.

I now have 2 Sportsters, my minty 1994 XLH1200 “Evo” and my 1973 Iron Head (the first year with a front disc brake, I think, but with the gear shifter still on the right and the brake on the left) which I bought from my hospital bed 30 minutes after coming out of a General Anaesthetic post liver surgery in 2019. It needs a crank repair (I have a crank, just haven’t gotten around to installing it yet) and then I’m looking forward to doing “back to back” comparisons between the two, to see how my Evo has “Evolved” (pun intended) in 20-odd years.

I’ve only ridden two “Big Twins”, a souped up “Shovel Head” ex showbike which was just horrible to ride, but I think if whoever built it had sorted the engine and set the ignition timing and carb properly it would have been a much more pleasant experience. Back in 2009 when I bought my brothers Triumph Rocket III a work mate was desperate to have a ride on it, so we swapped bikes, and I rode his Road King, and it was a really enjoyable ride.

It was comfy, it floated over bumps, the brakes were good and it did a genuine 100 MPH, as I was struggling to keep up with my mate riding my R3. I know a couple of guys who’ve done big miles on them, without issue. As I said, I love them, but you really need to test ride one before ponying up the dough, they are an acquired taste.

[Terry in Australia]

I've actually heard of tapered roller lower and ball bearing upper, the lower does the heavy lifting and the upper keeps the steering quick and light. But I've never tried it myself.

I can't wait to see and hear what that big twin turns out yo be when you're done with it. Sounds like a lean hot rod.

Thanks mate, I didn’t know  the ball/taper roller bearing setup was a “thing”, but it sounds reasonable and surprisingly, it was really clean in there with fresh looking grease, not that it makes much difference as I’ve ordered new tapered roller bearings for both it and my K1 build.

[Alan F.]

What brand do you use for steering tapered rollers? I've used AllBalls and Rising Sun (from 4into1).

[Terry in Australia]

I’ll have to check Alan, they were Ebay impulse buys, I think they’re coming from the UK? I’ll post a pic when they arrive.

[BenelliSEI]

Terry..... a buddy of mine has a 2004 883R in orange and black. Always admired it!

[BenelliSEI]

Looking at that broken engine lug  (and considering how many other solid mounts there are in total), I’d say there is enough left to use it as is! Hide it with a washer and move ahead.....

[Alan F.]

I've been thinking about a Sportster for 'someday' Terry have you ever put a thread in the'Other Bikes' section about your 1200 and its setup? Sounds like a pretty reliable and entertaining ride to copy. I see basket case Sportsters from time to time as low as $800-1200 USD, when I get my K8, K3 and my 250NH finished I may be looking for a new direction, someday at least.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, yeah the repair isn’t really that necessary John but it bugs me so I’ll give it a try. (I was gonna say “Give it a crack” but then decided that I’m making too many intended puns....)

Cheap used Harleys are probably like cheap used CB750’s Alan, a mixed bag. If they’ve been well maintained then mileage isn’t important. (my Yamaha FJR1300 was fastidiously maintained by the PO, so was a bargain for $2K AUD, but the mileage, 227,000 Km made it virtually unsellable. I did another 11000 Km before I traded it in on a second Triumph Rocket III a couple of months ago and the only issue that the new owner told me after he took it in for a service was that the cam chain tensioner needed replacement)

My 1994 XLH1200 was bought by an Aussie who collected it from the factory in April 1994, rode Route 66, then shipped back to Oz, so it’s got both a US and an Australian VIN plate. In 2015 I took a high paying job in Canberra, and was keen to buy a new Indian Chief, but my old Subaru was struggling with my weekly 1000 mile commute, so I leased a new Ford, and put my Indian dreaming to the side.

I saw the Sporty on Ebay with only 5000 Km from new (or an average of 143 miles per year) and it looked like new, so I probably paid top dollar for it. I took it to Canberra Harley Davidson who checked the service history and it had only had its first service in 1994, then nothing, so I’m guessing the old guy who bought it originally stopped riding, but continued to pay the annual registration fees right up to when I bought it. Canberra Harley changed the fluids and filters, and said they didn’t even bother changing plugs as the OEM plugs were still like new. Even the 21 year old drive belt was like new.

I can’t leave things alone, and when I bought it the PO had adorned it with chrome crappery, so I binned the chrome hand grips, battery cover, Progressive “Shorty” shocks etc. Ikon had just brought out their new range of gas/oil shocks with adjustable damping and I was the first kid on the block to order some new, slightly longer than stock length shocks. The rear 16” OEM (21 year old) rear tyre was next to go, so I bought an 18” rear wheel and had a Pirelli Sport Demon tyres fitted, before I installed it. This gave me better cornering clearance, and Sporties are quite agile bikes so it was quite good fun for doing some canyon carving.

It was gutless from the factory though, HD struggled with EPA regs before they adopted EFI, so installed the leanest possible Keihin CV carb way back in the 80’s, and combined with a choked exhaust system, had the power and sound of a Briggs and Stratton lawn tractor. The PO had removed the plug that blocked access to the air screw and had installed “Screaming Chicken” mufflers, but it still felt gutless so I bought a Mikuni HSR42 carb and a Bassani “Road Rage” (a common occurrence here in Melbourne traffic) 2 into 1 exhaust. These mods changed the whole dynamic, I don’t have any Dyno stats to prove anything, but I reckon it’s given it a huge horsepower increase. It might just be psychological, but if it’s wrong, I don’t wanna be right.

By then I’d also installed forward controls (which I dont like, so they’ll probably come off again eventually) a Mustang solo seat (very comfy) and HONDA handlebars! Yep, another Dave, Dave Benge, an old Vietnam vet mate (he went to Vietnam, not me, I was only 13 when we pulled out of that rock show) bought them out of the “Specials” basket at his local Honda dealership thinking they were for a CB750 and sold them to me, but on receipt I realised they are 25mm in diameter rather than 22mm, so they gathered dust in my garage until I realised that they would give my sporty something og a “flat tracker” look.

Finally, the OEM single puck front caliper was rubbish. Once again, the PO had installed a stainless braided line, which just made for a “Wooden” feel, but presumably no braking improvement. I spotted a cheap “Performance Machine” (PM) 4 piston caliper meant for the rear of a big twin on Ebay, so made up a bracket to install it on my front forks, where the body of the caliper just misses the spokes by millimetres, but the stopping power is now awesome!

So in summary, it’s reliable, it stops, goes around corners and with a big arse main jet, will do 120 MPH, but I had to drop it several sizes for city commuting, but it’ll still do “The ton” @ 5000 RPM IN 5th. A side benefit of installing the 18” rear wheel without any gearing changes means that it cruises on 60 MPH @ 2900 RPM, so I’m getting 65 miles to the (imperial) gallon, which is great, because it only has a 12 litre (2.64 imperial/3.24 US gallon) fuel tank. It also doesn’t like high octane gas, so I’m happy to save a few beans and put the cheap stuff in it.

Future mods? Well I first bought a 1250cc Hammer Performance” big bore kit, Andrews cams, Dyna 2000i ignition and leads, but decided against installing them all with such a low mileage engine running so well, then in 2020 I got excited again and bought a pair of the later Harley “Buell” (bathtub combustion chamber) heads, and asked “Hammer Dan” if they’d work with the 1250 kit, but he said hell no, I need the new Hammer Performance 1275 kit and their 560 cams. So I shelled out a couple of grand for that setup.

They’re sitting in another box in my garage, because I keep looking at my super reliable, low mileage, oil tight Sporty engine, and can’t bring myself to tear into it. I have been thinking about buying another engine though, and installing the 1275 kit, then stuffing the hotrod engine into my frame, while carefully moth balling my stock engine for posterity. Or buying another sporty with a tired engine, hmmmnnn. Decisions, decisions.

[Just John]

Thanks guys, "Cholo Style" John? Do I need to wear a red flannel shirt buttoned up all the way, and a bandana? I think I know what you mean. My intent is to make it as "naked" as I can once I get my hot little hands on it, I have different, smaller fenders to put on it, that I bought for one of my sporties, but should fit fine. It doesn't need to be a "Dresser" or a "Bagger", it needs to just be as simple (like me..) as possible.

That flannel shirt will feel good when winter comes!

[RAFster122s]

Thanks guys, "Cholo Style" John? Do I need to wear a red flannel shirt buttoned up all the way, and a bandana? I think I know what you mean. My intent is to make it as "naked" as I can once I get my hot little hands on it, I have different, smaller fenders to put on it, that I bought for one of my sporties, but should fit fine. It doesn't need to be a "Dresser" or a "Bagger", it needs to just be as simple (like me..) as possible.

That flannel shirt will feel good when winter comes!

The cats will like it too...

[Alan F.]

Thanks for the recap, bookmarked.

[seanbarney41]

Terry, if you are waiting for that Sporty engine to wear out before you hot rod it, I hope you intend to live a really long time or you better get busy putting some serious mileage on it!  (Seriously, I do hope you live a long happy life!)  Buddy of mine has an 883 with like 125k miles.  Never been opened.  No signs of anything going wrong anytime soon.  Pretty sure the 1200's are as good if not better.