Author Topic: Planned obsolescence, or not?  (Read 1737 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline oldfart

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 234
    • The Motorcycle Project
Planned obsolescence, or not?
« on: May 28, 2023, 04:45:57 PM »
Planned obsolescence. You don't see this talked about much on powersports user forums. A little surprising. Or is it? Vintage Honda forums--the only ones that matter to me--have not had as much reason to think in those terms as have the forums devoted to more modern machinery. With one glaringly notable exception, 1960s and 1970s Hondas (the inline fours especially) exhibit a famously observed over-built ethos on their manufacturer's part. Not tanks, exactly, but certainly the term comes to mind. It's a little ironic. Later Honda models are noticably more high tech but lack the throw-it-around durability, evocative attraction and even, arguably, day-to-day dependability of the single-cam Honda four. So, are those later model motorcycles the victims of "planned obsolescence", and if so, why shouldn't the same judgment be applied to the earlier product?

I have never like the phrase, preferring to defend Honda by saying their engineers designed 60s-70s bikes (in particular) with durability that benefitted from a calculated margin over what they knew was needed. (And that before finite analysis was common. You might say they predicted it manually, with a calculator.) Connecting rods for example, which Honda unfortunately earned some criticism for in connection with some models whose durability was demonstratively less than that of their competition. But this is not the same as planned obsolescence, which is knowing almost to the hour how long a part will last. I think Honda said, "This amount of strength plus X amount more for margin," not, "Let's plan on none of these bikes lasting more than five years." Probably the best example of true planned obsolescence in a motor vehicle context is your bike's battery. Battery technology a long time ago reached the point where the engineer knows exactly how many discharge/recharge cycles a given battery will endure. The cycle rating is as familar to the engineer as the terminal orientation is to the end user. All batteries are designed this way and this of course is not communicated to the consumer in the same manner as the number of hours a household lightbulb will last--common on the package now--let alone how long a microwave will last (two to three years?) or a modern refrigerator (four to five?)

At the end of the day, this is one of the elements--one of most important and enduring features--that makes 70s Honda SOHC fours so great. They are, very simply, elegantly--yes, elegantly--over-built. Not kludgedly, massively or blindly, without regard for efficiency in form and mass, but very carefully and artfully and knowingly. And dare I say, affectionately. When I look at the profile of one of Honda's smaller single-cam fours--the early CB500/550 especially and the jewel-like CB350F almost breathtakingly--I can't help but believe there was passion involved. Someone left their heart's imprint on those flowing lines, those seductive proportions. It has been reported that the 350F was Soichiro's favorite SOHC four and if not, maybe it should have been.

It could be I'm just an old man viewing through the understandably nostalgically focused lenses, but I don't think so. In any case, after more than fifty years of making a living in this industry, I can't think of a more pleasurable vintage Honda to own than an early 70s small SOHC four.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 04:55:55 PM by oldfart »
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline Gurp

  • I'm no.......
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
  • Once was a...
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2023, 04:48:55 PM »
Really enjoyed this little write up.
You have a few great points here!

Sent from my LE2127 using Tapatalk

slow Progress 74 cb550.

Poor boy chop 73 CB500 chop

Future project 77 Cb750 Amen Savior

Offline oldfart

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 234
    • The Motorcycle Project
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2023, 04:54:16 PM »
"...enjoyed..."  Good!  Hopefully your delight and mine in the subject, the smaller fours, intersected.   :)
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline BenelliSEI

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,132
  • 1969 cb750
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2023, 06:30:33 PM »
Mike….. lovely to read your comments and to hear from you! It’s been a while. I hope all is well with you!

Yesterday I replaced a hose on our 26 year old dishwasher. It’s a Kenmore, that I bough at a Clearance Centre! I wrapped it in one of the “quiet blanket kits” they used to sell, and installed it in cabinets I built myself. The ones adjacent to the dishwasher have an air gap, into which I added a thin sheet of wallboard we used in “soundproof” office construction. We then poured our own concrete counter tops.

I love it when my wife hosts a dinner party and before we finish desert, the machine is running. Invariably, someone says “is your dishwasher actually running?”. A good basic design, and a little common sense, can make a really delightful product.

I notice my kids are more interested in the latest designer fashion brands, than performance and reputation. Sadly, as you note, most appliances and equipment is now specifically built to meet a very narrow timeline. Despite the realities, I recently had to listen to the virtues of a $300 toaster! Seriously? I have learned to keep my mouth shut, otherwise there would be another “old fart”.

John D., in Canada.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 06:32:56 PM by BenelliSEI »

Offline jlh3rd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,567
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2023, 06:46:29 PM »
amen...
I think the vintage honda sohc 4's are timeless.
Honda had to prove itself and build the best bike they could to compete with the other Japanese bikes...who were trying to build their own "better" bike....It was a win win for the consumer....( like the vintage stereo "receiver wars")
Change the oil and filter and that honda would run forever.
I am always surprised to see the large representation of these old surviving hondas on display at vintage bike shows.

Offline MauiK3

  • A K3 is saved
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,353
  • Old guy
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2023, 06:59:19 PM »
Another old fart here.
Wonderful essay about Hondas, I agree, the Sohc series bikes are unique in this way. There are other examples of this kind of thinking. Here on Maui we are seeing an influx of 25 year old Kei trucks from Japan. My Honda Acty will be here in June, they seem similarly built. Very tough little trucks.
I don’t have a dishwasher here, energy is too expensive, we hand wash.
But I built every cabinet in our kitchen as well as the kitchen in our “Ohana” downstairs (it’s a separate, complete living space, my youngest is there, common here in Hawaii). We had a local stone shop do the counter tops, I was not confident I could pull off the concrete job.
I agree that many of the products we see now are not intended to be kept running, use them for a bit and discard. It sad. Even high end tools can be disappointing. My SawStop table saw is pretty good so far. Refrigerators? Don’t get me started! Washing machines? Same reaction.
Happy Memorial Day folks, this is a great forum.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline oldfart

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 234
    • The Motorcycle Project
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2023, 07:07:59 PM »
"A good basic design, and a little common sense, can make a really delightful product."

John D., in Canada.

John, hello and thanks!
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline oldfart

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 234
    • The Motorcycle Project
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2023, 07:11:26 PM »
I agree that many of the products we see now are not intended to be kept running, use them for a bit and discard. It sad. This is a great forum.

 :)
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline oldfart

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 234
    • The Motorcycle Project
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2023, 07:12:52 PM »
Honda had to prove itself and build the best bike they could...

 :)
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,970
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2023, 07:56:45 PM »
I knew in 1973, when my Honda mentor had returned to upstate NY after college with his high-mileage sandcast and sent me a letter how he was rebuilding his bike at over 100k miles, this was going to change everything in bikes. While it did for a while, after Sochiro stepped down (1973) from running Honda and let others do it while he worked in the plants himself, the once-gigantic footprint of Honda's reliability began to fade. While it still beat the others until the early 1980s, you're right about how things became built afterwards. Even BMW's legendary bikes began to lose lifetime as they all seemed to change to the go-faster, sell cheaper mantra of making bikes that can't make it "to the ton" without extreme care. In the end, Honda's quest for "3 Hondas in every garage (one car, one bike, and one mower or snowblower) seemed to take over. Made me sad.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,224
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2023, 10:55:35 PM »
Mike,thank you for this thread;quality rather than quantity  ;)

I also love quality shoes and boots that can be re-soled  :)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Gurp

  • I'm no.......
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
  • Once was a...
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2023, 11:00:42 PM »
Especially now in automobiles with everything being electronic requiring updates. It's only so long before the hardware and or software becomes obsolete and is no longer supported. We see that quite often now most commonly with cellular devices. They're the new hot thing for 6 months to a year 5 to 7 years later you can't even run apps on them because that version of an operating system is not supported anymore and the hardware can't keep up with the newest operating system out there..

It seems through the '90s we were building stuff that was only meant to last long enough to be good in the used market for a little while and then become obsolete or inserviceable. And now the hardware will far out last the support for the available software or ability for the software to be updated.


Sent from my LE2127 using Tapatalk

slow Progress 74 cb550.

Poor boy chop 73 CB500 chop

Future project 77 Cb750 Amen Savior

Offline Kevin

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2023, 01:54:47 AM »



It could be I'm just an old man viewing through the understandably nostalgically focused lenses, but I don't think so. In any case, after more than fifty years of making a living in this industry, I can't think of a more pleasurable vintage Honda to own than an early 70s small SOHC four.

I couldn't agree with you more about the small SOHC four's, they make me smile ecverytime I walk past them.

I think that if governments really believed in global warming, and that we are running out of resources, they would make manufactures
produce products that would last and could be repaired by the consumer. The fact that your cell phone battery (and some laptops too) cannot be replaced by the consumer tells me that the powers that be are only interested in consumption and not conservation.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

A couple of 400F's and a
'98 Suzuki Intruder VS1400 ~ for long rides

Offline newday777

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,443
  • Avatar is my 76 K6 in Colorado w/Cody on back 1980
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2023, 03:17:58 AM »



It could be I'm just an old man viewing through the understandably nostalgically focused lenses, but I don't think so. In any case, after more than fifty years of making a living in this industry, I can't think of a more pleasurable vintage Honda to own than an early 70s small SOHC four.

I couldn't agree with you more about the small SOHC four's, they make me smile ecverytime I walk past them.

I think that if governments really believed in global warming, and that we are running out of resources, they would make manufactures
produce products that would last and could be repaired by the consumer. The fact that your cell phone battery (and some laptops too) cannot be replaced by the consumer tells me that the powers that be are only interested in consumption and not conservation.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

100%!
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Quattrocilindri

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 82
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2023, 04:18:49 AM »
I totally agree. But that concept of "Planned Obsolescence" was already being thrown around 50 + years ago, when just about any product manufactured industrially was designed with the provision for indefinitely refurbishing, rebuilding, renewing, or refreshing it with a vast array of spare parts available.
Today's products, however, are strictly children of CAD/CAM industrial production, and you just can't economically build updated versions with old machinery that is only usable without sophisticated computer software.

Since we are talking motorcycles as transportation vehicles, the push for modern designs is really being driven by ever stricter emission and noise standards, along with extensive use of cheap plastic parts to make the final product affordable and discourage the aftermarket to invest in OEM replacement parts.

So, we better enjoy our "obsolete" SOHC bikes while we still can, before emission rules will make them illegal to operate and expensive enough to maintain. And yes, I thoroughly love my jewel 1973 CB 350F!

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,092
  • I refuse...
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2023, 04:58:31 AM »
Even BMW's legendary bikes began to lose lifetime as they all seemed to change to the go-faster, sell cheaper mantra of making bikes that can't make it "to the ton" without extreme care.
You are ill-informed and ignorant of the depth of the BMW bike market. I’d wager there are more BMWs Airheads with well over 100k miles on them than there are SOHCs. That does not even begin to include the K and R model line-up. Their boxer engine is one of the most durable, easy to service, and long living motors made.

I’ve got an ‘87 triple with over 260k miles on the original engine, never rebuilt as an example. It is capable to this day of two-up riding with hard bags for a cross country trip at a moments notice. Quality bikes and sturdy like a forged hammer.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,094
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2023, 05:15:57 AM »
BMW have their problems, wiring being one and i have seen bad cranks and lots of oil seals in my workshop time.
You have to know them to make them run right and yes the BM backup is not as good these days, they used to keep the 12 month warantee on police bikes but not now, better than Triumph and Norton who gave non at all!
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline BenelliSEI

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,132
  • 1969 cb750
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2023, 06:21:42 AM »
During COVID lockdown, I totally converted to on line banking and bill paying. I’m most certainly NOT very “tech savvy”, but some modern conveniences are just too hard to ignore.

A few weeks ago, my bank released the latest version of their app. Guess what? It’s not compatible with my 8 year old IPad! I was saved by a coincidental Birthday and am now using my new IPad. There was no other option. The old one is obsolete. What nonsense. My best efforts to repair, reuse and recycle are totally frustrated.

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,092
  • I refuse...
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2023, 06:36:12 AM »
During COVID lockdown, I totally converted to on line banking and bill paying. I’m most certainly NOT very “tech savvy”, but some modern conveniences are just too hard to ignore.

A few weeks ago, my bank released the latest version of their app. Guess what? It’s not compatible with my 8 year old IPad! I was saved by a coincidental Birthday and am now using my new IPad. There was no other option. The old one is obsolete. What nonsense. My best efforts to repair, reuse and recycle are totally frustrated.
If you expect software developers to become static in their development of features and enhancements so that you can continue running an 8 year old piece of consumer grade electronic device to conduct your digital lifestyle, you are oblivious to what is technically happening beneath the covers.

Software apps and OS’es must evolve as the chipsets they run on do. If you are content to run an 8-bit OS and restrict yourself to the capabilities of that software, then you should rummage up an Atari and abandon the web, forums, eBay, Amazon, online banking, reservation systems, etc.

Your search for used parts for your beloved motorbikes also needs to return to paper and monthly catalogs or journals. Still sticking to your grievance of a $500 device that ran for 8 years (roughly $60/year, or $5/month, or $1.25/day) for all that convenience? Come on, get some perspective…
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline oldfart

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 234
    • The Motorcycle Project
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2023, 07:15:54 AM »
I thoroughly love my jewel 1973 CB 350F!

 :)
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline C317414

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2023, 07:19:47 AM »
In 1985 my wife and I bought a new Dodge Omni GLH Turbo.  At the time Dodge offered a 3-year/36,000 mile warranty.  Interestingly enough, the timing belt interval on the engine was 36,000 miles.  As the car approached the 36,000 mark, I intended to change the belt, but I was too busy to do it.  I was not too concerned, because the turbo engine had low compression pistons, and was not an interference design.

Sure enough, the belt failed shortly before 37,000 miles.  Had it failed before 36,000, the replacement would have been done under warranty.  Moreover, the part number of the belt had been superseded, coinciding with the introduction of a 5-year/50,000 mile warranty on new Dodge cars. 

Our car was just like this one:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/1985_Dodge_Omni_GLH_%2835085818066%29.jpg

Offline C317414

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2023, 07:27:32 AM »
During COVID lockdown, I totally converted to on line banking and bill paying. I’m most certainly NOT very “tech savvy”, but some modern conveniences are just too hard to ignore.

A few weeks ago, my bank released the latest version of their app. Guess what? It’s not compatible with my 8 year old IPad! I was saved by a coincidental Birthday and am now using my new IPad. There was no other option. The old one is obsolete. What nonsense. My best efforts to repair, reuse and recycle are totally frustrated.

This is my concern with many devices today that connect to a phone via bluetooth.  The device may last a long time, but phone technology and Apps will evolve and leave it behind. 

A friend recently redid the house battery system on his boat.  He now has LiFe batteries with Battery Management Systems that connect to his phone via Bluetooth, and an inverter-charger that does the same.  Both of these are items that should last many years.  The question is whether he will be able to connect to them in the future. 


Offline MauiK3

  • A K3 is saved
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,353
  • Old guy
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2023, 07:54:32 AM »
Lots of good stuff here.
I too did the iPad upgrade for similar reasons. It is sad to create so much electronic waste but my iPhone I have now is so much better than the first mobile phone I had, it was a lunchbox size truck mounted monster. My first flip phone was ok......for calls, not much else.
Life goes on
I'm just glad I captured a great piece of lasting industrial art in my K3 750. I'm pretty sure no one in my family will use it when I too go to the great gig in the sky but at least I'll go with a smile on my face for having enjoyed it.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,693
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2023, 12:00:02 PM »
Newer phones have really good camera(s) with good storage. My phone is 4 years old and still up to date.
Oneplus 7 Pro with 12GB ram, 256GB storage.

Recently got Android 12. Not slower after that, runs quicker and smoother.

Older phones became useless quicker since their operating system stopped to get updates and apps stopped working.

Forgot to mention that I have done all my bills via Internet bank since 1996.
All economy related via telephone apps to my banks.
Bank ID app that is used when buying things or logging in to banks etc.

Money transfer  app for transfer money to others phone numbers that also have that app with bank account references. Easy to pay private persons, shops to governmental stuff.

One click shutting Internet down and everything stops......
« Last Edit: May 29, 2023, 12:34:39 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,224
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: Planned obsolescence, or not?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2023, 12:35:06 PM »
Lots of good stuff here.
I too did the iPad upgrade for similar reasons. It is sad to create so much electronic waste but my iPhone I have now is so much better than the first mobile phone I had, it was a lunchbox size truck mounted monster. My first flip phone was ok......for calls, not much else.
Life goes on
I'm just glad I captured a great piece of lasting industrial art in my K3 750. I'm pretty sure no one in my family will use it when I too go to the great gig in the sky but at least I'll go with a smile on my face for having enjoyed it.

Have you tried the Z1 yet ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.