Author Topic: Air screw to reduce decel popping?  (Read 1810 times)

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Offline Bigmant

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Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« on: January 02, 2025, 12:34:08 AM »
Hey gang!

Air screw question here. I’ve got a 4 into 1 exhaust and pods. The bike has great power and is synced well. But under power on deceleration, there is quite a bit of popping I’d like to see if I can clean up. This is possible with the air screw correct?

According to this picture that should be the case, so unscrewing it an 1/8th of a turn at a time should hopefully help right?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2025, 07:14:16 AM by Bigmant »
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Idle screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2025, 01:52:29 AM »
Deceleration popping is usually a lean symptom. Needs richening up, so screw it in a little. There is some debate on whether idle screw in or out richens the carb. I am finding it behaves like an air screw, out for leaner, in foor richer.

There's a sticky at the top of this forum section, for help on running pods. Put me off ever trying!

Offline newday777

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Re: Idle screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2025, 02:24:50 AM »
Hey gang!

Idle screw question here. I’ve got a 4 into 1 exhaust and pods. The bike has great power and is synced well. But under power on deceleration, there is quite a bit of popping I’d like to see if I can clean up. This is possible with the idle screw correct?

According to this picture that should be the case, so unscrewing it an 1/8th of a turn at a time should hopefully help right?

The Idle Screw?? Don't you mean the air mixture screw??
The idle screw only adjusts the idle rpm(the big single screw)
The 4 small pilot mixture screws (on each individual carb) adjust idle air mixture (or idle fuel mixture on PD carbs) depending on what bike you are working on???(you didn't say)
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline PeWe

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Re: Idle screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2025, 03:45:56 AM »
Which bike and carbs?
My CB750 K6 with 836, stock carbs  plus pods with 4-1 had the air screws opened 1/2 turn from closed.
Pilot jets stock 40.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Bigmant

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Re: Idle screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2025, 07:15:23 AM »
Hey gang!

Idle screw question here. I’ve got a 4 into 1 exhaust and pods. The bike has great power and is synced well. But under power on deceleration, there is quite a bit of popping I’d like to see if I can clean up. This is possible with the idle screw correct?

According to this picture that should be the case, so unscrewing it an 1/8th of a turn at a time should hopefully help right?

You’re right! Words mean things! Air mixture screw, not idle screw. I also changed the original post so it’s not confusing. Bike is in my signature!

The Idle Screw?? Don't you mean the air mixture screw??
The idle screw only adjusts the idle rpm(the big single screw)
The 4 small pilot mixture screws (on each individual carb) adjust idle air mixture (or idle fuel mixture on PD carbs) depending on what bike you are working on???(you didn't say)
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline Bigmant

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Re: Idle screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2025, 07:23:25 AM »
Which bike and carbs?
My CB750 K6 with 836, stock carbs  plus pods with 4-1 had the air screws opened 1/2 turn from closed.
Pilot jets stock 40.

Bike in my signature, but similar to your setup minus the 836. Id have to go back and see what I ran for the pilot jets, but if I open the air screw MORE, theoretically that should make me run leaner and help clean up the unburnt fuel detonating in the pipes on decel right?
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2025, 07:28:42 AM »
An exhaust leak especially around the collars will cause popping on deceleration.  Fresh oxygen sucked in will let any unburned fuel ignite and pop!

Is the popping coming from the intake or exhaust?

Intake popping could be caused by advanced timing  or the advance mechanism not retracting.

I don't believe the air screws have anything to do with popping.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2025, 07:35:32 AM by Ozzybud »
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2025, 07:43:27 AM »
An exhaust leak especially around the collars will cause popping on deceleration.

+1...I have experienced this.  Does your exhaust have a baffle? If no, I would add one.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Bigmant

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2025, 08:35:58 AM »
An exhaust leak especially around the collars will cause popping on deceleration.

+1...I have experienced this.  Does your exhaust have a baffle? If no, I would add one.

I can double check all the collars, but I’m fairly sure they’re fine. And no baffle on this old girl!
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline Bigmant

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2025, 08:40:08 AM »
An exhaust leak especially around the collars will cause popping on deceleration.  Fresh oxygen sucked in will let any unburned fuel ignite and pop!

Is the popping coming from the intake or exhaust?

Intake popping could be caused by advanced timing  or the advance mechanism not retracting.

I don't believe the air screws have anything to do with popping.

Hmm not sure how you’d hear if it’s intake or exhaust while riding. As for the timing, I have electronic timing instead of the points, so I think we can rule that out.

As for the air screws, my thought process is that if you add more air at idle and lean out the mixture, when you close the throttle bodies after being at 1/2 throttle or so, it will help cleanup the rich mixture that is still in the exhaust. Somewhat how the picture above describes. I could be wrong though!
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline PeWe

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2025, 10:20:34 AM »
Which bike and carbs?
My CB750 K6 with 836, stock carbs  plus pods with 4-1 had the air screws opened 1/2 turn from closed.
Pilot jets stock 40.

Bike in my signature, but similar to your setup minus the 836. Id have to go back and see what I ran for the pilot jets, but if I open the air screw MORE, theoretically that should make me run leaner and help clean up the unburnt fuel detonating in the pipes on decel right?
Easy to test. Bring a screwdriver with you when riding to change the air screws. If the air screws are opened 1 turn. Test 1/2 for next ride.
Adjust during the ride if not better.
I have done many rides with a screwdriver adjusting air screws or fuel screws depending on which bike (carbs).

I have had banging on decel if giving heavy throttle direct followed by throttle roll off.
This thanks to carbs with acc pump with possible too long stroke making it worse.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2025, 10:58:05 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Bigmant

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2025, 12:17:40 PM »
Which bike and carbs?
My CB750 K6 with 836, stock carbs  plus pods with 4-1 had the air screws opened 1/2 turn from closed.
Pilot jets stock 40.

Bike in my signature, but similar to your setup minus the 836. Id have to go back and see what I ran for the pilot jets, but if I open the air screw MORE, theoretically that should make me run leaner and help clean up the unburnt fuel detonating in the pipes on decel right?
Easy to test. Bring a screwdriver with you when riding to change the air screws. If the air screws are opened 1 turn. Test 1/2 for next ride.
Adjust during the ride if not better.
I have done many rides with a screwdriver adjusting air screws or fuel screws depending on which bike (carbs).

I have had banging on decel if giving heavy throttle direct followed by throttle roll off.
This thanks to carbs with acc pump with possible too long stroke making it worse.

Agreed, easy enough to do! I plan on it. My question was more, which way makes more sense for the screw? Out to lean out the mixture going through the exhaust or in to make it more rich?
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2025, 02:02:20 PM »
On the CB750 with roundtop carbs, out is richer.
The popping happens often with pod filters. If you can determine WHICH cylinder(s) it is, often done by starting with fresh sparkplugs and riding for about 5 miles or so while inducing the situation, then you can tinker with that cylinder.

Also: on the 750 with very hard intake rubber hoses, it will leak air past the slide, right at the nozzle of the carb. This will also cause popping, and requires a better seal. That often entails new hoses. Don't get hoses from 4into1 is my advice: they don't fit, don't seal, and won't give you back your $$, either ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Bigmant

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2025, 03:45:11 PM »
On the CB750 with roundtop carbs, out is richer.
The popping happens often with pod filters. If you can determine WHICH cylinder(s) it is, often done by starting with fresh sparkplugs and riding for about 5 miles or so while inducing the situation, then you can tinker with that cylinder.

Also: on the 750 with very hard intake rubber hoses, it will leak air past the slide, right at the nozzle of the carb. This will also cause popping, and requires a better seal. That often entails new hoses. Don't get hoses from 4into1 is my advice: they don't fit, don't seal, and won't give you back your $$, either ;)

Thanks Hondaman! So out is richer, interesting. And I’ll make sure the boots are tight. I think they’re from 4into1 from 2 years ago or so… sorry!

‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2025, 07:24:49 PM »
I think they’re from 4into1 from 2 years ago or so… sorry!
Check 'em close for leaks: we've seen several builds with those here recently that didn't seal for beans. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Bigmant

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2025, 07:46:15 PM »
I think they’re from 4into1 from 2 years ago or so… sorry!
Check 'em close for leaks: we've seen several builds with those here recently that didn't seal for beans. ;)

Do you have a brand or a link to ones you prefer?
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2025, 01:22:51 AM »
Deceleration popping is something regularly encountered with replacement exhausts on Harleys. It is the exhaust causing the bike to run LEAN, not rich. Just like an air leak is leaning the exhaust mix. The exhaust has enough air to ignite unburnt fuel in the pipes.

I hear Hondaman regarding slow mix screw in for lean, out for rich. Respect to you for your knowledge here, but my experience has been out = lean on the pre-PD / roundtop carbs. Just like an air screw. Do what I did, experiment with small adjustments both ways and see what works.

Offline newday777

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2025, 02:58:00 AM »
I think they’re from 4into1 from 2 years ago or so… sorry!
Check 'em close for leaks: we've seen several builds with those here recently that didn't seal for beans. ;)

Do you have a brand or a link to ones you prefer?
Genuine Honda or from Yamiya is what he recommends. Aftermarket are junk.

South Sound Honda usually has the best price
#8 & #9

https://www.southsoundhonda.com/--xpartsstream#/Honda_Powersports/CB750KA_(76)_750_FOUR%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_CB750-2540001_TO_CB750-2575894/CYLINDER_HEAD/b3d05c73-22e7-4620-b018-132301d96b6e/58a86ed9-04d7-422c-b0e8-d2356946658a/y
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2025, 06:46:27 AM »
+1 Yamiya for the source
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10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline Bigmant

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2025, 07:20:39 AM »
Deceleration popping is something regularly encountered with replacement exhausts on Harleys. It is the exhaust causing the bike to run LEAN, not rich. Just like an air leak is leaning the exhaust mix. The exhaust has enough air to ignite unburnt fuel in the pipes.

I hear Hondaman regarding slow mix screw in for lean, out for rich. Respect to you for your knowledge here, but my experience has been out = lean on the pre-PD / roundtop carbs. Just like an air screw. Do what I did, experiment with small adjustments both ways and see what works.

M, so would you suggest going more in and therefore more rich to see if that has any effect on the popping?
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2025, 08:46:49 AM »
Deceleration popping is something regularly encountered with replacement exhausts on Harleys. It is the exhaust causing the bike to run LEAN, not rich. Just like an air leak is leaning the exhaust mix. The exhaust has enough air to ignite unburnt fuel in the pipes.

I hear Hondaman regarding slow mix screw in for lean, out for rich. Respect to you for your knowledge here, but my experience has been out = lean on the pre-PD / roundtop carbs. Just like an air screw. Do what I did, experiment with small adjustments both ways and see what works.

M, so would you suggest going more in and therefore more rich to see if that has any effect on the popping?

Hi, yes, i would. At deceleration, you are on no throttle. So, you are correct that the combustion is from the carb's idle circuit, assuming no significant leaks. My experience with deceleration popping on Harleys was curing them by richening the mixture. I was sceptical, as it seemed counter-intuitive to allow more fuel in. The advice I was given by multiple sources was clear, though. When I followed it, it worked.

As to whether screwing in or out is the right way, I found a fraction out reduced sooty plugs on 2 of mine, having previously tried a fraction in, which only made them sootier. So, my experience with my roundtop 750K6 carbs, the screw works llike an air screw, where out=leaner. But, advice on here, particularly from Hondaman (who no argument, is clearly very experienced, helpful and expert), suggests the screw is not an air screw, but works more like a fuel screw (I.e. the opposite way, or out=richer). The UK SOHC forum takes the view the same as my experience,  the screw works like an air screw and out=lean, in=rich. Confusing, so I would suggest you try 1/8th in from current and see how you go, knowing I may be wrong and if not improved then try 1/8th out from current. Luckily, it very easy to experiment 👍.

Online Don R

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2025, 09:13:14 AM »
  So, to sum it up, the answer is a definite maybe, one or the other unless it's either the intake or exhaust leaking.
  The copper washers can also be leaking air if the exhaust flanges have been off, and they weren't replaced.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2025, 10:45:58 AM »
  So, to sum it up, the answer is a definite maybe, one or the other unless it's either the intake or exhaust leaking.
  The copper washers can also be leaking air if the exhaust flanges have been off, and they weren't replaced.

Absolutely!
There's also the pipe length, if too short, and the equalness (or not) of the intake filtration action.

And if the float bowls in the carbs are all the same depth.

And if the fuel is flowing properly into all 4 carbs, especially in the 2-hose-feed versions.

And...
;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Online Don R

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2025, 01:21:47 PM »
 Sorry if this is a thread Hijack Bigmant,

As a plumber that spent considerable time chasing air bubbles out of hydronic heat systems, I am still astonished at the action of the "two hose" petcocks. First, one hose flows, then the other flows. I observed this with both clear tube and also inline filters which I know are problematic. A couple years ago I've posted video of a no flow situation through a one hose petcock. I could blow air into the mostly full tank but nothing flowed back out.
 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2025, 01:23:55 PM by Don R »
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Offline Bigmant

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Re: Air screw to reduce decel popping?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2025, 03:14:03 PM »
Sorry if this is a thread Hijack Bigmant,

As a plumber that spent considerable time chasing air bubbles out of hydronic heat systems, I am still astonished at the action of the "two hose" petcocks. First, one hose flows, then the other flows. I observed this with both clear tube and also inline filters which I know are problematic. A couple years ago I've posted video of a no flow situation through a one hose petcock. I could blow air into the mostly full tank but nothing flowed back out.

Not a hi jack at all! The technology behind carbs NEVER ceases to amaze. Some guys much smarter than us were some brilliant folks to make it all work!
‘73 CB750 K3 Owned by my father and now me

Build post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190516.msg2216419.html#msg2216419