Topic: No Front Fender

[Heironymous Josh]

Excellent.  I have some tin snips that should work nicely.  To be completely honest, by the construction and form of the factory fender, I don't see how it offers a whole heap of bracing support.  However, many a learned rider has duly informed me it does.  Thanks for the pics mlinder.

[Terry in Australia]

And you can use later model dust covers to keep the crap outta your seals, too.

Try this: With the bike on the centre stand (if you still have one, otherwise use a helper) stand at the front of your bike, with the front wheel clamped between your legs.

Try to twist the handlebars from side to side, and you may well be surprised at how much movement you have without a steel front fender or fork brace, or better still, both. This "flex" translates to crap handling in the twisties.

I seriously doubt that a fibreglass fender held on by hose clamps or zip ties will add very much to the strength of your front forks. On our old bikes with long skinny fork legs, the addition of a decent brace will really assist in tying the legs together and making the whole assembly considerably more rigid.

I did the "twist test" comparison on my semi-restored K3 with no front fender (as yet) and my K1 with new CycleX two inch over fork tubes, later model K8 sliders, with a German "Telefix" fork brace, and the difference was night and day.

Once I get time to scratch my asss I'm going to machine up some more fork braces like the one I made for Sean Condon's F2, and the first one will be for Derek. (seaweb11)

It's almost impossible to make the alloy braces fit the earlier CB750's, but you can easily fit the later CB750F/F1 or K7/K8 sliders to the K3-K6 forks, or the whole front end assembly to the K0-K2's, the sliders are an inch or so longer and allow the fitment of a decent brace.

There were some spring steel "loop" type braces around back in the day for early CB750's, but they're pretty hard to find nowadays.

Once I get home I'll reduce the size of the pic of my K1 so I can post it here, it's running the 2 inch over fork tubes, K8 sliders and Telefix brace, and due to the longer sliders and brace I can still use my OEM fork "gaiters", so it still looks kinda OEM. Cheers, Terry.    

[mlinder]

Excellent.  I have some tin snips that should work nicely.  To be completely honest, by the construction and form of the factory fender, I don't see how it offers a whole heap of bracing support.  However, many a learned rider has duly informed me it does.  Thanks for the pics mlinder.

Uh.. Maybe our fenders are different... I went through 7 or 8 dremel cutting blades, maybe more, to get those ends off. Each little 5 or 6 oinch chunk weighed quite a bit.
The brace part itself is quite sturdy.
You will not be using tin snips.

[jevfro]

I think it could be done w/ tin snips if they are really heavy duty, probably make a mangled mess out of it though.  I would advise a cutting wheel on an angle grinder.

[Heironymous Josh]

grinder it is!

Terry:  I have a center stand and will perform the twist test tomorrow.  Thanks for the input.  I have a 77 750 SS, so does that mean my fork tube sliders are more compatible with commonly available fork braces?

[seaweb11]

"Once I get time to scratch my asss I'm going to machine up some more fork braces like the one I made for Sean Condon's F2, and the first one will be for Derek. (seaweb11)"

I need a set up for the 72 Tracy build now as well  

If that one came 1st, that would be fine with me. I just sent the frame and all the other parts for re-chrome$$$$$$$$$$

[Terry in Australia]

grinder it is!

Terry:  I have a center stand and will perform the twist test tomorrow.  Thanks for the input.  I have a 77 750 SS, so does that mean my fork tube sliders are more compatible with commonly available fork braces?

No worries mate, and you're correct, it's easier to find a fork brace for your F2 than for say, Derek's K2, because the alloy sliders on your forks are longer and sit "proud" of the front fender, making it easier to attach one.

The downside is that no-one makes 'em any more, (at least, to my knowledge) so you've gotta hope that you can find a good used one, or even better, a NOS item on Ebay perhaps. Once I start making them I'll post it on this site, in case you can't find one. Cheers, Terry.

"Once I get time to scratch my asss I'm going to machine up some more fork braces like the one I made for Sean Condon's F2, and the first one will be for Derek. (seaweb11)"

I need a set up for the 72 Tracy build now as well  

If that one came 1st, that would be fine with me. I just sent the frame and all the other parts for re-chrome$$$$$$$$$$

You might need to find some later (F/F1 or K7/K8) fork sliders Derek, that'll make it much easier for me to make you a brace. Cheers, Terry.  

[Terry in Australia]

I`ve got 10" over forks on my rigid frame, rides like a dream.... rode it for a bit with no front fender OR Brace... only time i could feel the flex was cornering slowly

Yeah mate, and that's about the only kind of cornering you're gonna do on a rigid framed chop with 10 inch overs, ha ha!

Here's some pics of my K1 with the fork brace on my 2 inch over K8 forks. Cheers, Terry.

[Terry in Australia]

Here's a couple more:

[oddmartini]

Is it dangerous? I've ridden bobbers with no front fender, and the only danger I've faced was:
1. It might rain, in which case it's blood hilarious! The water goes everywhere and you can't see for #$%*.
2. Here in Australia, it's illegal, and you might have to talk with some #$%* police person. (though the one that stopped me was a major babe, very cute, and I have a fetish for blonde kittens in uniform - I was hoping she'd use the handcuffs on me).
live a little mate, the danger should only encourage you more!

[Heironymous Josh]

Well we have something in common then, I love blond kittens in and out of uniform!  From the sound of things I don't have to worry about a catastrophic failure while I ride now but once I find the right bracing solution, I'll go with it for the performance/wear & tear advantages.

[Terry in Australia]

Well you'll know all about "catastrophic failure" next time you overcook a corner and grab a handful of front brake mate, and your front end tries to twist in 3 different directions!

The motorcycle wrecking yards over here are full of bikes that once belonged to guys who thought they knew more than their bike's manufacturers, ha ha! "Live a little"? I'd rather live a lot! Cheers, Terry.    

[scondon]

Well you'll know all about "catastrophic failure" next time you overcook a corner and grab a handful of front brake mate, and your front end tries to twist in 3 different directions!

   That was the most noticable difference for me when I fitted the fork brace. Can't say that it made the turns feel any less bumpy, but I could grab a lot more front brake without being sat up straight and pointed towards the ditch. Also, the few times I've had to panic brake on the freeway I did not veer into the other lane

[s3d1t0r]

grinder it is!

Terry:  I have a center stand and will perform the twist test tomorrow.  Thanks for the input.  I have a 77 750 SS, so does that mean my fork tube sliders are more compatible with commonly available fork braces?

I've found this site http://www.spec2.com/clips.html#apps for front fork braces for my '78 CB750F, and I just called the phone number at the bottom of that page and the voice mail said it was Spec2 so I believe they are still in business.

[Terry in Australia]

Looks good mate, the brace on my bike is a Telefix, but is "pre-powdercoat" and was painted wrinkle finish, but I removed it and eventually I'll get it powdercoated too.

The price looks good too, the one I made Sean Condon, cost almost that much just for the alloy billet that I machined it from! Cheers, Terry.

[Heironymous Josh]

grinder it is!

Terry:  I have a center stand and will perform the twist test tomorrow.  Thanks for the input.  I have a 77 750 SS, so does that mean my fork tube sliders are more compatible with commonly available fork braces?

I've found this site http://www.spec2.com/clips.html#apps for front fork braces for my '78 CB750F, and I just called the phone number at the bottom of that page and the voice mail said it was Spec2 so I believe they are still in business.

Thanks for the link.  I'm going to give these guys a call later today.  They also have some clipons, some pictures would be nice.  Thanks again.

[ProTeal55]

Sorry for the late response.
I rode both my bikes (CB750 & CB450) without fenders for years with no issues.
I also never ran a brace of any kind and had no issues with flex or what not.
Don't get me wrong, not having a front fender makes the bike "intresting" to ride in the rain, but
it isn't horrible.

2 each their own, but for the look aspect you cant go wrong with ditching the fender...

[Terry in Australia]

grinder it is!

Terry:  I have a center stand and will perform the twist test tomorrow.  Thanks for the input.  I have a 77 750 SS, so does that mean my fork tube sliders are more compatible with commonly available fork braces?

I've found this site http://www.spec2.com/clips.html#apps for front fork braces for my '78 CB750F, and I just called the phone number at the bottom of that page and the voice mail said it was Spec2 so I believe they are still in business.

Thanks for the link.  I'm going to give these guys a call later today.  They also have some clipons, some pictures would be nice.  Thanks again.

Their forkbraces are the same as the one on my bike mate, excellent quality and will seriously stiffen your front end.

For all the "nay-sayers", think of this. Your front fork tubes are held into the sliders by an 8mm screw that secures your damper rod to the alloy slider. The damper rod is just a loose fit thru the fork tube, so the damper piston can slide up and down the inside of the tube as the forks compress and de-compress, under spring tension. If you've ever rebuilt a set of forks, or even just removed your front wheel, you'll know that without the fender attached, you can freely rotate the slider around the tube, as there's nothing there to stop it.

That's why the forks will flex if there's nothing tying them together, apart from the front axle at one end, and the triple clamps at the other. In between, you've got a couple of feet of fork tubes sitting loosely in a pair of alloy sliders, all held together by two 8mm screws. The longer your forks are, the more flex you're gonna have, that's why even the chopper set from the 1960's and 70's used "tweak bars" to tie their forks together, to help reduce the flex.

For those who've never noticed any problems riding their bikes "sans fender", I'm guessing that you've never ridden one of these old bikes even close to their limits! Cheers, Terry.

[TwoTired]

For those who've never noticed any problems riding their bikes "sans fender", I'm guessing that you've never ridden one of these old bikes even close to their limits! Cheers, Terry.

I'm totally with Terry on this point.  Attached is a pic of a true, late 70s/early 80s era street cafe'd Honda.  While it is of a "lesser" 77 CB550F, you can clearly see an added fork brace along with the stock fender and aluminum rims.  The previous owner pronounced that fork brace as "vastly improving the stability in high speed cornering".  It was tested regularly up on Highway 9 in Cal.  The bike was moded to be driven hard.  What it looked like for stand still photo ops was far from the point.

Alas, this bike sat in the coastal ocean spray for 10+ years before given to me, and I haven't yet restored it to operation.  But, I have no doubts that brace improved handling.  When the project comes to the fore, it will be interesting to see how different it is from my stocker of the exact same year.

Cheers,

[Terry in Australia]

That's a nice looking brace there TT, I've got a really interesting book (well really it's just a magazine) put out by Peterson in the early 1980's called "Great Bikes of the 70's", and just about every pic of the bikes that have been modified for racing have a brace just like the one in your pic. Vey nice mate, I better do a trawl through EBay for one for my K0! Cheers, Terry.    

[ProTeal55]

I had this brace up for sale on EvilBay a few days ago --->

I bought it for my CB750 and never used it (brand new - still in the original packaging).
 If someone wants it email me your offer...

[Terry in Australia]

I just saw them on EBay Proty, does it fit a 750? I see it's advertised for a Harley sportster, and I wasn't sure if it'd fit our bikes, as I thought the distance between the legs on the sporty might have been further apart?

If they will fit our bikes, the seller still has 8 left at only 44.95, which is a real bargain! Cheers, Terry.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHROME-35MM-FRONT-END-FORK-BRACE-4-HARLEY-FX-XL-73-87_W0QQitemZ130154484182QQihZ003QQcategoryZ35569QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[s3d1t0r]

Yea, I want to know if it will fit my 750 too.  Please and thank you of course.

[ProTeal55]

From what I was told back when I bought it it will in fact fit a CB750 (But dont call me out on it 4 sure)..

[DME]

grinder it is!

Terry:  I have a center stand and will perform the twist test tomorrow.  Thanks for the input.  I have a 77 750 SS, so does that mean my fork tube sliders are more compatible with commonly available fork braces?

I've found this site http://www.spec2.com/clips.html#apps for front fork braces for my '78 CB750F, and I just called the phone number at the bottom of that page and the voice mail said it was Spec2 so I believe they are still in business.

Thanks for the link.  I'm going to give these guys a call later today.  They also have some clipons, some pictures would be nice.  Thanks again.

Their forkbraces are the same as the one on my bike mate, excellent quality and will seriously stiffen your front end.

For all the "nay-sayers", think of this. Your front fork tubes are held into the sliders by an 8mm screw that secures your damper rod to the alloy slider. The damper rod is just a loose fit thru the fork tube, so the damper piston can slide up and down the inside of the tube as the forks compress and de-compress, under spring tension. If you've ever rebuilt a set of forks, or even just removed your front wheel, you'll know that without the fender attached, you can freely rotate the slider around the tube, as there's nothing there to stop it.

That's why the forks will flex if there's nothing tying them together, apart from the front axle at one end, and the triple clamps at the other. In between, you've got a couple of feet of fork tubes sitting loosely in a pair of alloy sliders, all held together by two 8mm screws. The longer your forks are, the more flex you're gonna have, that's why even the chopper set from the 1960's and 70's used "tweak bars" to tie their forks together, to help reduce the flex.

For those who've never noticed any problems riding their bikes "sans fender", I'm guessing that you've never ridden one of these old bikes even close to their limits! Cheers, Terry.

For those who've never noticed any problems riding their bikes "sans fender", I'm guessing that you've never ridden one of these old bikes even close to their limits! Cheers, Terry.

I'm totally with Terry on this point.  Attached is a pic of a true, late 70s/early 80s era street cafe'd Honda.  While it is of a "lesser" 77 CB550F, you can clearly see an added fork brace along with the stock fender and aluminum rims.  The previous owner pronounced that fork brace as "vastly improving the stability in high speed cornering".  It was tested regularly up on Highway 9 in Cal.  The bike was moded to be driven hard.  What it looked like for stand still photo ops was far from the point.

Alas, this bike sat in the coastal ocean spray for 10+ years before given to me, and I haven't yet restored it to operation.  But, I have no doubts that brace improved handling.  When the project comes to the fore, it will be interesting to see how different it is from my stocker of the exact same year.

Cheers,

I agree with you both on the account that a brace will stiffen up the front end.
The stock front fender is doing a great job, ESPECIALLY if you run the fender with the stock fender stays.

As for the part about the forks only being held together by an 8 mm bolt (a larger boltsize will not contribute to lessen the forkflex), well that is what many newer bikes use also without anything else then a plastic front fender (by newer I mean eighties and mid ninethies bikes).

The fork flex comes from the upperlegs twisting and bending due to being underdimensioned (hello forkbrace or USD-forks...) or to much free play between upperleg and slider (hello new bushings....)

So, sure a brace will help stiffen up the CB750´s underdimensioned forklegs that has been worn through 30 odd years of use and abuse.

My point is though, that you can run a well set up CB750 sans forkbrace without fearing that it will throw you into the nearest ditch as soon as you starts to push it.

By well set up I mean:

- good forkbushings
- correct amount of oil in forklegs
- good steering head bearings
- good rear suspension
- straight wheels with correct spoke tension
- good swing arm bushings
- good wheel bearings

Every bike should have these items gone through before they start having forkbraces and steering dampers thrown on them.

My guess is that many skip servicing these items and go straight to bracing both forks and frames.

Cheers
Daniel