Topic: this bike is not stolen...i repeat...not stolen

[possum2082]

okay.  here's the deal.

i was going to buy a 77cb550k (76 550k engine) from a guy in ohio for 350.  clean title.  it ran but wasn't going to win any beauty contests.  however, the metal vin tag on the column had fallen off and the engine was not the original.  i started to walk away and the guy offered me the bike for 200.  i took it.  i've always wanted a $200 motorcycle.  worse case, i could part it out gaining knowledge and hopefully breaking even. 

i've grown fond and don't want to part it out.  however, it needs to undergo a vin inspection by the good folks of the commonwealth of kentucky.  i've ran the vins of the engine and the frame (which is on the title in hand).  they are clean.  i've got a metal stamp kit from harbor freight. 

should i do it?  if i do, directly in the column or on a piece of metal and then cement it onto the column?  other ideas?

once again, you guys are great.  this is the first time i've owned a non sportbike and have been helped so so much by people with my points and ignition woes. 

thank you all for reading 

[SEBNN]

On a 77 cb550K the vin should already be stamped into the frame.  I think that would be sufficient for a vin inspection.

[possum2082]

i've looked all over the column...nothing.  not even a place where it could have been; it's all smooth.

[Geeto67]

yeah the riveted on metal tags are not the legal vin, the legal vin should be stamped into the frame near the neck. There is no raised pad for it on the neck or close by. I don't know how many times your frame has been painted but try taking the neck area down to the metal with a wire wheel (not a grinder) and see if the numbers appear. They would be on one side just behind the neck.

Why do they need to inspect it if you have a title? you should just be able to register the bike like normal.

 

[TwoTired]

Why do they need to inspect it if you have a title? you should just be able to register the bike like normal.

Because chop shops would use clean titles to register stolen vehicles of like kind.  The physical number verification makes that routine problematic.

i've ran the vins of the engine and the frame (which is on the title in hand).  they are clean. 

You have only proven the paperwork is clean.  Next you must verify the engine numbers match the paper, as well as the frame.  If the headstock frame tag and the stamped numbers on the opposite side have been defaced, it is quite probably stolen and disguised to avoid detection.  Even filed off numbers can be imaged and reconstructed if an investigation warrants the effort. 

i've got a metal stamp kit from harbor freight. 

should i do it?  if i do, directly in the column or on a piece of metal and then cement it onto the column?  other ideas?

The act of stamping alternate numbers on the frame is a federal offense, I believe.  If you get caught, you CAN be prosecuted.  This is more likely if the frame registration number shows up in a non-stolen database (as opposed to the stolen database).

If I were the official verifying the actual numbers on your bike, I would be quite suspicious of freshly stamped numbers in a frame, that didn't look like Honda placed there.

'Tis a slippery slope.

Cheers,

[bryanj]

Numbers should be on the LH side of the headstock I.E. Opposite side to plate tag.
Also if a "NEW" frame is purchased as a spare part it arrives without number and the dealer/fitter has to stamp in the original number from the old frame-----so it dont look like a Honda one anyway

[possum2082]

bryanj, i had no idea that if a new frame is bought, it has to be restamped with the vin.  never thought about it.  this could be the case. 

or  it could have been stolen.  i'm not sure if any self respecting bike thief that would gank a 30 year old non classic. 

i would love to just level with the people downtown.  however, i don't want to get caught in a  year long red tape battle.  ahhh!!!!!  don't want to get prosecuted either. 

still don't know what to do.  i'm still wondering why there is no vin stamped.  i could try the wheel grinder idea, but i just don't see even a hint of where it should be. 

thank you for the ideas.  any others??? 

[Geeto67]

if you use a grinder it will remove any vin if there is one, use a chemical paint stripper or a wire wheel on a drill spinning slowly to take the frame down to the bare metal. I think it is in your best interest to strip the paint and find out if there is actually no vin on your bike rather than just assume it isn't there. Most powdercoats can fill in vin numbers if not prepped carefully and several coats of paint could do it as well.

just out of curiosity, what is the vin for your title? Is it a honda vin or is ti a state issued vin. Sometimes states would issue vins when a bike was stolen (the old vin number was be ground off or tampered with) and the bike later recovered. A lot of states used paper tags as vin plates which over time can get destroyed.

Because chop shops would use clean titles to register stolen vehicles of like kind.  The physical number verification makes that routine problematic.

Even still a lot of states don't require a physical inspection of the vin when registering the bike (a majority of the states actually). I was more curious if this was something that was required of all bikes registered in kentucky or if something else triggered this.

[possum2082]

great idea...i'll get some chemical paint remover to check it out. 

the vin is cb550k2009291...the end numbers match for the frame of a 77.  i'm not sure about the k...i don't think that would be on the frame number.

the title is from ohio. 
ky makes any vehicle being transferred across state lines, bought or your own, inspected.
i've been putting up with their bs policies for 2 years now.

[possum2082]

okay...here's part of my title

notice the conversion...that means it came from another state into ohio. 
why would transferring state lines (mystery state to ohio) cause a vin to change?

this might have to do with your sticker vin idea.

[bryanj]

The CB550K makes it a K3 model up till then it was just CB550

[possum2082]

forgive my ignorance. does that make anything different?

[bryanj]

Tank, footrests,seat,frame in that the "accessory" mounting points are different etc etc

[tx750]

Hi,
I bought a 77 CB750K same problem no VIN# on the frame just the engine.Out of curiosity I wire wheeled the area, and there the numbers were plain as day.Would'nt hurt to check.

[ekim98]

When I moved to KY in 98 I had to have all the vin #'s checked on my vehicles even tho I had valid plates on them from Indiana and there was no changing of anything just new KY plates.

[Kevin400F]

Attached pic shows typical frame neck stamping location and letter style.  This example is my '76 CB550K; my 400F and 350F are same in terms of location, letter size, etc.  Not sure about a '77, but I would expect it to be very similar.

[TwoTired]

When I moved to KY in 98 I had to have all the vin #'s checked on my vehicles even tho I had valid plates on them from Indiana and there was no changing of anything just new KY plates.

California requires the same procedure.

Cheers,

[possum2082]

my fav thing about ky law is the fact that you have to pay sales tax every year even if you collect and do not ride on the rode.  back in the buckeye state, you pay to get your plates and that's it (of course, you initially pay sales tax).  moreso, you get prorated if you apply late in the year.  ky charges you the same if you ride for 1 month or 12. 

the sales tax every year thing drove me crazy!  i asked the bmv lady if kentucky comes into my house and charges me tax on my vcr every year.  she didn't laugh. 

anyway, thank you all for all your attention and input.  500 views.  i'm impressed.  i borrowed my father in law's wire wheel and will take the left side of the column down to the bare metal tomorrow.

i'll keep you guys posted.  thanks again.  merry christmas.   

[techy5025]

my fav thing about ky law is the fact that you have to pay sales tax every year even if you collect and do not ride on the rode.

...could you explain this a little better?

Jim

[mark]

my fav thing about ky law is the fact that you have to pay sales tax every year even if you collect and do not ride on the rode.

...could you explain this a little better?

Jim

Maybe it's more like property tax. In CA, you register cars, bikes, and boats at dmv and pay a sales tax if you just bought it. The county sends a property tax bill for the boat, whether you tag it every year or not. Then they came up with their 'Planned Non-Operation' scam where you pay dmv a fee to not tag the car/bike, but I think you only pay that once.


Cheers.

[Terry in Australia]

How much does annual vehicle registration cost in the US? I imagine it varies from state to state, but I'm interested to hear what you guys are paying? Cheers, Terry.

[Bob Wessner]

In Michigan it's $23/yr. for my 750.

[possum2082]

our hero heads out to his 550k armed with goggles and a wire wheel.  brazenly, he removes the paint from the steering column to reveal...

nothing

absolutely nothing

SOB!!!   

options:

1) throw myself at the mercy of ky dmv and possibly fight for 6 mo. in the ky courts system (red tape, bah!)

2) part her out 

3) find a frame with a title and do the ol' one two, switcheroo. 

1's a headache, 2's a heartache, and 3 might be easier buying a new cb550...

[bryanj]

You can see where the tube is flattened where its been ground out!

[eurban]

Perhaps this has already been covered but, does KY have any options for "historic" registration?  I have my 78 registered in MD as historic and there was no need to have the bike inspected at all (for standard car/mc registration, MD has a one time after purchase inspection and an annual emissions inspection for cars).  There are "limitations" to how often the historic vehicle is used but as far as I can tell, as long as the registration stickers are up to date the police are happy.