Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[MCRider]

You got trans bearing from that guy? I would require part numbers....

You think you'll be done before or after I get outta the hospital? 

Yeah they're just standard bearings, the numbers are stamped on the sides.

At the rate you keep going into the hospital, I'll be finished before you get out!   

[MCRider]

Nothing too earth shattering today, but progress in a sense.

Terry from Oz and I did a tank swap deal. My purple tank turned out to be riddled with holes from sitting on the shelf too long unprotected.

So he thought he had what i was looking for a left side petcock tank. For which i would swap my Phaedrus I black ripple tank. He's doing a resto and in need of the ripples.

I never realized it was a ripple tank, so no loss to me.

Turns out his is holy too, so he scores one for me from Nova Scotia Canada. After a long wait it finally shows up and will suit my bill. AS some may remember i had an odd experience with the purple tank as it was too short in the front by 3/8" and the tail was too long by about the same. Now that i see the canada tank fits my frame perfectly, I'm thinking I got hold of a CB450 tank. So I'm happier now.



So the USPost Office has stricter limits on size sending a box to Oz than from Canada to here. It had to be smaller length + Girth by about 6 inches. So we built a box to size. Takes time but we really did it good and i think the black tank may make it to Oz unharmed. Terry also scored some NOS unobtanium  K1 tank trim from me I bot 10 years ago, still in the bags from Honda, happy to see it go to good use.


So this faded out "canada tank" will be derusted, treated, glassbeaded, and painted purple metallic with gold pinstripes and graphics. And maybe a third color to complement.

The rear wheel is in RaceTech's hands having the rear brake "arced". The engine painting is done and for a guy who hates everything there is about paint, I think I did a decent jub. Next step will be to get the crank and tranny back in the cases and assemble the front end.

An odd feeling, I actually put what's left of the purple tank in a garbage bag for the trash man.  Good riddance.

I still have an unresolved issue with the clutch hub, though it may be OK.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=61062.0

[MCRider]

Old Business:So we've decided that the unbanded clutch hub is OK to use. It is a later model Honda part.  I'll keep my eye out for a good used banded hub, as they are stronger, but in any event overbuilt.
New Business: So we untaped the painted parts. Hints to you engine painters out there. Buy the low adhesive masking tape. Mine was the middle strength tape and still hard to get off. Required some razor blading.




I used Rustoleum Engine Paint. The black (cylinder) is gloss. The silver (cases and head) appears to have a little metallic in it. We stacked the parts for looks:







Just love those Titanium retainers...


I started to polish off the edges of the fins. Just a bit to the left of the cam chain tensioner area.



My buddy stopped me. He prefers the solid paint. Somewhere I had it in my mind to polish the edges of the fins. Saw it done somewhere, comments?

A little joke, I hope:



So we removed the emblems from the Canada tank. They came off much easier than i expoected, a small screwdriver from underneath with a slight twisting prying motion.



Both emblems are in perfect shape, the little friction nuts came off cleanly. All the pins are intact. The paint is turrible. I'm thinkin they are K5 or later, and are available for sale.



So my forking by Frank's fork tubes are attacked. They are new but 10 years old, and rusty inside. So I got a long extension with a 1" wire brush. And attacking from both ends with rust remover and then parts cleaner we got them pretty clean.



Ready for fork assembly next week.

Terry told me he received the tank from me as part of our swap. That was 7 calendart days from Indy to Oz, prertty good. I was afraid it may be longer. It was 14 calendar days from Nova Scotia to me.

Until later...

[Ecosse]

*yawn*  this project bores us... what is the white bike in picture #4?


i kid of course. 

[mystic_1]

I started to polish off the edges of the fins. Just a bit to the left of the cam chain tensioner area.



My buddy stopped me. He prefers the solid paint. Somewhere I had it in my mind to polish the edges of the fins. Saw it done somewhere, comments?

Tough call.  If the head fins were black, I'd for sure say polish the fin tips.  The scheme you have going on now, however, looks pretty good and polished fins might just look too "busy".  In the end it's a style choice.  Either way the bike is looking sweet.  Wish mine were that far along.

mystic_1

[MCRider]

*yawn*  this project bores us... what is the white bike in picture #4?


i kid of course. 

I know, I need to pick up the tempo, but things take time. We spent 1.5 hours on the dang fork tubes.

THat is a 1968 CB77 Honda 305 Super HAwk. One of the last ones made, and white was a rare color. TOo bad it needs repainting. Rusty.  Story?

On a ride into N. Ky, (back when I was riding   ) we stopped into a "General Store" in Berlin KY. Run by an elderly lady. Store was storybook, old musty, things on the shelves from 20 years ago.

She says, "I've got a motorcycle" so she showed us. In her
liquor room (she had the only liquor license in that county) was that bike parked there since her husband died in 1974. Had a 1974 tag on it. 4500 original miles, all original condition. Of course condensation had locked up the brakes etc. but still.

Long story short, we negotiated $500, I came home got my trailer and picked it up. Put 2000 more wonderful miles on it, but the camchain tensioner was seized unknown to me and I had to park it when discovered. Hope to restore it someday.

[MCRider]

My buddy stopped me. He prefers the solid paint. Somewhere I had it in my mind to polish the edges of the fins. Saw it done somewhere, comments?

Tough call.  If the head fins were black, I'd for sure say polish the fin tips.  The scheme you have going on now, however, looks pretty good and polished fins might just look too "busy".  In the end it's a style choice.  Either way the bike is looking sweet.  Wish mine were that far along.

mystic_1

Thanks. I think I'll leave it alone, I've got plenty of other things to do. Simple to touch up what I've sanded off.

[mystic_1]

Easy enough to do later if you change your mind, too.

mystic_1

[HondaMan]

Old Business:So we've decided that the unbanded clutch hub is OK to use. It is a later model Honda part.  I'll keep my eye out for a good used banded hub, as they are stronger, but in any event overbuilt.
Both emblems are in perfect shape, the little friction nuts came off cleanly. All the pins are intact. The paint is turrible. I'm thinkin they are K5 or later, and are available for sale.

Price? Interested...I still owe you a pix of the K2 hub, but we had yet another pre-season 12"+ blizzard this weekend and it collapsed my last shelter on the customer's K7. Kinda busy with trying to get everything dug out and a stronger shelter built up...

[MCRider]

HM: I say the emblems are in perfect shape: to be clear i mean that structurally, no cracks chips, bends, the pins are fully there, etc. However the paint on the painted sides is very bad.

Restoring the paint would be difficult as its 2 colors.

I'll PM you about prices.

[HavocTurbo]

What progress!!!

Very nice color scheme on the engine, not too flashy and enough contrast there to make people wonder what's inside.

Any word on the cryo stuff?

I cannot stand yet but I can flex my legs..... Your bike got it's feet on yet? lol.

I love your picture riddled posts.... Makes me think of the coming year or two.

[MCRider]

What progress!!!

Very nice color scheme on the engine, not too flashy and enough contrast there to make people wonder what's inside.

Any word on the cryo stuff?

I cannot stand yet but I can flex my legs..... Your bike got it's feet on yet? lol.

I love your picture riddled posts.... Makes me think of the coming year or two.

It would be easy to take the "what progress" comment as sarcasm. I feel like I'm getting nowhere. But I'm putting the time in and whatever happens happens.

Engine color: Hmmm did he just paint it or is there something going on in there? And what's those bolts coming out of the cam cover?  

The first batch of cryo stuff is all back, quite a heavy box of stuff. I forgot the shift forks, so I sent them along with some other stuff to make a full second load, just this week.

Since I sent the rear wheel to RaceTech I have less "legs" than I had. But they emaioled me and said they were working on it. They only have 1 tech who is checked out on the "arcing" machine, its a bit of a lost art.

THe front lower legs were in the Cryo batch and with them back we hope to get the forks assembled this weekend. THen the front wheel attached and the brakes. THen I'll see if I have clearance for the fender I want to run.

ITs been every Sunday morning for over a year now, missing only a few. My Mom is saying, "Don't bother Ron while he's at Church". She knows its my religion.

Glad to hear you're mending, but what a drag! Hang in there the Phys therapy must be a #$%*.

[HondaMan]

*yawn*  this project bores us... what is the white bike in picture #4?


i kid of course. 

THat is a 1968 CB77 Honda 305 Super HAwk. One of the last ones made, and white was a rare color. TOo bad it needs repainting. Rusty.  Story?

My first "real" bike was a 1968 305 SuperHawk. It was distinctive by the horned front on the seat, which stop the nut-busting to some extent when bumping into garage walls in the dark... 
That was my first racing love: I bored it to 337cc and added the Rocky 10.25 CR pistons to  it as my first "race bike": then rode it for many, many miles before selling it to my ex father-in-law, who also rode it many years. I bought a '68 CL350 to replace it, and lamented forever the lost handling that Hawk had, what a great bike those are! Did you know that Honda "officially" only made 800 of the 1968 Hawks before introducing the 1968 350? A lot of '67s were retitled to '68 (and sometimes show up in their "sales figures" that way), but the horned front on the seat demarked the 'real' 1968 ones. I didn't know that until years later...

[MCRider]

*yawn*  this project bores us... what is the white bike in picture #4?


i kid of course. 

THat is a 1968 CB77 Honda 305 Super HAwk. One of the last ones made, and white was a rare color. TOo bad it needs repainting. Rusty.  Story?

My first "real" bike was a 1968 305 SuperHawk. It was distinctive by the horned front on the seat, which stop the nut-busting to some extent when bumping into garage walls in the dark... 
That was my first racing love: I bored it to 337cc and added the Rocky 10.25 CR pistons to  it as my first "race bike": then rode it for many, many miles before selling it to my ex father-in-law, who also rode it many years. I bought a '68 CL350 to replace it, and lamented forever the lost handling that Hawk had, what a great bike those are! Did you know that Honda "officially" only made 800 of the 1968 Hawks before introducing the 1968 350? A lot of '67s were retitled to '68 (and sometimes show up in their "sales figures" that way), but the horned front on the seat demarked the 'real' 1968 ones. I didn't know that until years later...

AS a 15 yr old we vacationed at my Uncle's dairy farm in MD. One of my cousins had a 1964 305 SuperHawk with the flat bars. He taught me how to ride and I spent 2 weeks cow trailing that thing around the farm. Just slow 1 and 2 gear sometimes 3rd. I just loved it and that sealed my desire to ride.

When I found that 68, I had to have it. Its the true "Phaedrus" as Pirsig rode a 64 SuperHawk in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" Mine has the original seat and it does have a bump in the front.

I have a spare engine, I'd like to make it a 337. They seem to be simple to swap out what with the open frame, the engine just hangs there, stressed member.

Thanks for the insights!

[HondaMan]

When I found that 68, I had to have it. Its the true "Phaedrus" as Pirsig rode a 64 SuperHawk in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" Mine has the original seat and it does have a bump in the front.

I have a spare engine, I'd like to make it a 337. They seem to be simple to swap out what with the open frame, the engine just hangs there, stressed member.

Way cool! The '68 will also have the larger intake valves that started in 1967, adding 3HP. When you get 'round to it, start an "other bikes" thread and I'll talk you into adding a Rootes supercharger (run off the oil slinger) and a Linkert carb for some 500-like performance. 

Very easy engine to build!

[MCRider]

When I found that 68, I had to have it. Its the true "Phaedrus" as Pirsig rode a 64 SuperHawk in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" Mine has the original seat and it does have a bump in the front.

I have a spare engine, I'd like to make it a 337. They seem to be simple to swap out what with the open frame, the engine just hangs there, stressed member.

Way cool! The '68 will also have the larger intake valves that started in 1967, adding 3HP. When you get 'round to it, start an "other bikes" thread and I'll talk you into adding a Rootes supercharger (run off the oil slinger) and a Linkert carb for some 500-like performance. 

Very easy engine to build!

I didn't know that about the valves. I'll have to check my spare and see what year it is. Course if I'm going to build it up I can always have the bigger valves put in I guess. The original stock motor will stay as stock as possible.

I'll definitely do an "other bike" thread. But no superchargers.     I have heard that the stock CB750 carbs have been used and I have a bank of them (K4). Maybe more better to sell them as is and buy something for the SH tho.

[MCRider]

Another low excitement but still full day. Last week we'd cleaned the inside of the tubes of rust from sitting so long. I thought we were done, but upon inspection we both said not good enough and spent another hour on them. Wire brush, then push a plug through with solvent on it and more wire brush until the plugs finally came out clean.

The lower legs were polished 10 years ago. From banging around and going to the cryo guy, they both had nasty scratches on them. Not to balme the cryo guy i don't think he did it more likely I did it. Anyway, drug out the polishing wheel and as tentative as i am about polishing it took a while. 600 grit too. But I got them out.





Here's the scratch, it was worse. Other leg too.




Had to put the studs back in as we removed them for the cryo treatment. Different expansion rates you know.



had to chase every hole as they were full of 10 year old polishing debris.



Wanted to disassemble the old shift drum. (Vice has soft aluminum jaws fitted didn't scratch the drum) Hit it with the air impact and it wouldn't budge. The end screw has what looks like stakes and I couldn't see how to relieve them so I drilled out the screw. had just bot a new drill index, nothing like sharp bits.

One more larger bit and the screw head fell off, no scratches on the end plate.

Funny thing I disassembled a K4 drum with my air impact and it came right apart. It had the stake marks too.

Time ran out. Maybe next week we get into the fork legs.

[Terry in Australia]

Looking good Ron!

[MCRider]

Thanks Terry. Slow and steady...

So today was another good day. We searched for some parts some people indicated they would buy. (Check the classifieds for my stuff for sale later today) I'm always interested in selling stuff when I can. Over the last year+ I've sold about $1500 worth of stuff and some of it was way too cheap. Nevertheless its gone to good homes and every penny went back in the project. After so many years of a bulging shop, I actually have some space opening up on the shelves, feels good.

RaceTech called and said my rear wheel brakes are done and they've shipped it back, though its not here yet. I had the brake "arced", a lost but revivng art to maximize a drum brake. Some say it rivals a disc after this is done. I expect that's relative to one time max stopping power, though fade resistance and progressive feel is improved, I doubt its as good as a disc, but its much better than a non-arced drum brake.

http://www.racetech.com/HTML_FILES/BrakeArcing.html

I bot a centerstand from a forum member, I'm thinking I'll need to cut one down due to my 17" wheels.

So we dove into the forks. Pulled the dampers off the shelf and went to clean them. In chasing the lower bolt holes we discovered that the inside of the dampers were full of drud. Now I know I wasn't the best at changing the oil, but i did and flushed them. But upon studying the way this goes together it became obvious that one simply can't get these clean without disassembly. And you know, the parts fishy and the manuals do not even acknowledge (on a K2) that these parts exist and are removable.

So it took extra time to bottle brush these clean. See the big gobs of goo that came out.





Now perfectly clean:

Parts laid out for assembly

Green coating is industrial teflon.
I have 2 of the top bushings, brand new with teflon coating for sale.

Discovery that seals I bot are wrong OD.


These were bot 10 years ago. I knew better, that I was using the old style small OD fork legs. These are probably too old to use anyway. Anyone want them? Free + S&H.

Also, CB350F, late CB750 style (long) oilfilter bolt with oversize hex. $10 + $5S&H



So I'll order the proper seals and finish the forks next week. Maybe reinstall rear and install front wheels. Now that would look good.

[MCRider]

I found a source for the "Leak_Proof" brand fork seals:  http://www.thunderproducts.com/Leakproofforkseals.htm

You can get those many places. I always look for the mom and pop shops if i can. The Dennis Kirk website for example was so huge and cumbersome I just couldn't find what i wanted.

So I called this guy and he said sure. He asked me what i was working on and when I said old-style CB750 he wanted to talk. Worked for Honda Factory for 3 years, worked on Dick mann's CR750 team, asked me if I had any other old Hondas. I told him the 68 CB77 Superhawk. He gave me the name of a dealer in SD that has a quansett hutt full of all the "72"s and 77s.

So its a little early to post him as a preferred type vedor as he hasn't filled my order yet, but I have a good feeling.

I've used these before. The seals are treated with molybd whatever for less stiction. They used to use Teflon.coating, but now its built into the compound so it can't rub off. They are also designed to seal better as pressure is increased, suitable for air forks, and push in by hand, they don't have to be driven in. Which precludes nicking the fork tube. Same price as OEM or a little more for the Pro-Moly.

I have a set of 35/48/11 Pro-Moly (I needed 35/46/11 which only come in the "classic"). They are new, but very old but appear fine. Free to a good home.

[Ecosse]

i prefer the mom and pops too. beyond wishing to support local first, then the bigger folks, you can get service the big guys often can't give.

i'm no "big box activist" though... i love walmart!

hope this guy pans out. 

[Terry in Australia]

Hey Ron, I just realised that they are K0 forks, did you have a complete K0 at one stage or another? So far I've seen that you have a K0 swingarm, K0 "wrinkle" tank (thanks mate, it looks beautiful, I haven't been able to bring myself to strip it yet..........) K0 "solid" front axle (thanks again mate, I must fit it soon...........) and now K0 forks, what else have you got stashed away mate? Any K0 hubs? (2 holes in the brake drum, rather than 4 like all the later K bikes) If so, and if they're for sale, "Ka-ching!"

I'll take those free fork seals for my K3 and I'll buy the other bits you've got there mate, just chuck 'em in a box marked "Terry in Oz", the US Post Office pretty much knows me by now, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Hey Ron, I just realised that they are K0 forks, did you have a complete K0 at one stage or another? So far I've seen that you have a K0 swingarm, K0 "wrinkle" tank (thanks mate, it looks beautiful, I haven't been able to bring myself to strip it yet..........) K0 "solid" front axle (thanks again mate, I must fit it soon...........) and now K0 forks, what else have you got stashed away mate? Any K0 hubs? (2 holes in the brake drum, rather than 4 like all the later K bikes) If so, and if they're for sale, "Ka-ching!"

I'll take those free fork seals for my K3 and I'll buy the other bits you've got there mate, just chuck 'em in a box marked "Terry in Oz", the US Post Office pretty much knows me by now, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

I've never owned a Pre-K1 either in good shape or as a parts bike. There is a story behind each part you've noted. The tank was a replacement for my K2 Flake Sunrise tank that I flattened in a crash at mid-Ohio. Bot from Cycle ReCycle Part II.

The axle? don't know.

My current forks? They've been on the bike as long as I can remember. The 70s and early 80s are a fog. I may have crashed out (many times) and replaced the front end. I have dual discs on it. I have another set of lower legs with the same dimensions at the seal area. Interest? I'll check my hubs.
The K0 swingarm is a mystery. Had I been thinking straight  I would have sold it and rechromed a current one. Duh!

I'll get the fork seals out to you. I think they are fine, but at 10 yrs old I don't feel right asking money for them if they are dried out. I'll get you a postage $$ number though.

[MCRider]

Rear wheel came back from RaceTech yesterday. "LeakProof" fork seals came from ThunderProducts.com yesterday also. Hope to make progress towards a "rolling chassis" on Sunday.

[HavocTurbo]

Sheesh... alll kinds of serious machining processes going on here...

One would think you are restoring a bike or something.

I'm going to set your build as a quality benchmark. That ok? While I'm going to go a different direction.... Quality will be the key.