Author Topic: Aftermarket ignitions are rubbish! (Read 3479 times)

andy750 · « **on:** May 01, 2009, 04:57:53 AM »

This will be my 3rd (maybe even 4th) aftermarket ignition to be replaced on my CB750K2 (EMGO, T &B etc - I have used them all). Last night coming home I stopped for gas. Went to turn bike back on and nothing....after checking my one fuse (its a K2 afterall) I decided it was the ignition as I was getting parking lights coming on but nothing when "on". I called the g/f to bring the spare one I had bought when I had to replace the last one $:-\$ Quick change over and it worked fine.

Now I need to get another spare as this one is also aftermarket and I have no faith in it to last very long....so looking at spending double the money for the original Honda part $:-\$

For those of you who have aftermarket ignitions....beware! Its just a matter of time

BTW - for future use...to hotwire....is it black/white wire to red wire? PM me if you dont want to say here.....thanks!

cheers
Andy

HondaMan · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2009, 05:27:19 AM »

You're right about most of those switches, Andy: they are the ones used in the CB175/CB350 bikes of the era, but with the connectors fitted for a 750. The contacts get so hot on the IGNITION circuit that the solder melts inside and lets the rivets wipe off, ruining the switch. They are only rated for 8 amps, and the 750 uses 8-11 amps with the headlight on, cooking the switch. I through one, too, so I solved that little problem.

Problem here has been: the 750 version of the switch, with the heavier wires and internal contacts, just isn't available anymore, at least here in the U.S.

So, I guess it's time for another SOHC4 "kit": I've created (but haven't sold one to anyone) a relay add-in and extra backbone wire for the 750 that has solved the problem, in mine. In a nutshell, for those of you who understand the electrics, it takes the IGN black wire from the circuit to turn on a relay, located in the headlight. This relay is connected via an independent 16 AWG size wire, all the way back to the battery, where I use a separate, blade-type fuse, to feed the system away from the switch. Since this larger wire will carry more than 80% of the overall current, the key IGN still functions as fully normal, but it has a parallel boost circuit, much like a power steering system in a car. The relay connects this extra power wire back into the BLACK circuit up front, dropping the loads from the keyswitch.

Then the key only carries about 2 amps, and the switch will last a very long time!

For those who want to make one yourself, get a 30 amp automotive relay (12vDC type), 3 feet of BLACK wire, 16 AWG is fully large enough, and a blade fuse socket for 20 amp size: install a 10 amp or 15 amp fuse. Wire as described above, and you're in like Flynn.

If anyone wants me to make "kits", let me know, and I'll put a package together, like the Hondaman Ignitions. These might costs around $20.

The smaller SOHC4 bikes don't have this problem, as generally they don't generate much more than about 8 amps to begin with. So, they don't suffer from this quirk.

andy750 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2009, 05:31:18 AM »

Thanks Hondaman for the info and yes I would be interested in buying one of your kits. As long as its fairly straightforward to install (as I am sure it will be) and work with the round-connector type ignition switches. I already have an automotive blade-style fuse for the main fuse (was a simple plug-in). Let me know when you need some money (paypal).

thanks
Andy

super pasty white guy · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:51:16 AM »

Just having put on an aftermarket switch...

I assume that those of us running the headlight off of relays direct from the battery have accomplished same goal, no?

spwg

ev0lution7 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2009, 07:23:35 AM »

a relay for the headlight acomplishes the SAME THING (sorta) it just makes the rest of the bike run off the switch and leaves the large load (headlight) to run off the relay of course running a brighter H4 headlight or a car bulb (55,60watt) would only ADD to your problem of the aftermarket switch

MRieck · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2009, 09:45:10 AM »

Quote from: andy750 on May 01, 2009, 05:31:18 AM

Thanks Hondaman for the info and yes I would be interested in buying one of your kits. As long as its fairly straightforward to install (as I am sure it will be) and work with the round-connector type ignition switches. I already have an automotive blade-style fuse for the main fuse (was a simple plug-in). Let me know when you need some money (paypal).

thanks
Andy

You can handle it big guy.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2009, 10:04:40 AM »

I've often wondering if the ignition switch could be the culprit that creates, shall we say, less than the holy grail of 14.5V in some of our systems?? Thats the one thing I haven't changed.

Any testimonials to this?

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2009, 03:23:31 PM »

anyone know of an ignition that can have the key removed in run position? I found out the hard way that my leg interfered with the position my ignition is in (key broke off).
I popped off earlier and grabbed a few more relays to do my aux lights in the car and grabbed an extra to stick in my ignition as well.

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2009, 03:31:43 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on May 01, 2009, 05:27:19 AM

This relay is connected via an independent 16 AWG size wire, all the way back to the battery, where I use a separate, blade-type fuse, to feed the system away from the switch. Since this larger wire will carry more than 80% of the overall current, the key IGN still functions as fully normal, but it has a parallel boost circuit, much like a power steering system in a car. The relay connects this extra power wire back into the BLACK circuit up front, dropping the loads from the keyswitch.

Then the key only carries about 2 amps, and the switch will last a very long time!

For those who want to make one yourself, get a 30 amp automotive relay (12vDC type), 3 feet of BLACK wire, 16 AWG is fully large enough, and a blade fuse socket for 20 amp size: install a 10 amp or 15 amp fuse. Wire as described above, and you're in like Flynn.

Hondaman-
With my ignition relocated near the battery now, I intend on connecting into the BLACK wire from the ignition (key) switch to the switching input of the relay, hot from battery to aux 15a fuse to hot on relay, ground to ground on relay (the obvious parts) and then the relay power out to where??

ALSO, can I then decrease the fuse on the "stock" ignition circuit to 5a since it should only carry 2a or so now?

MRieck · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:17:15 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on May 01, 2009, 10:04:40 AM

I've often wondering if the ignition switch could be the culprit that creates, shall we say, less than the holy grail of 14.5V in some of our systems?? Thats the one thing I haven't changed.

Any testimonials to this?

All things must cross that bridge Jerry.....good point.

burmashave · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:38:46 PM »

Quote from: MRieck on May 01, 2009, 06:17:15 PM

Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on May 01, 2009, 10:04:40 AM
I've often wondering if the ignition switch could be the culprit that creates, shall we say, less than the holy grail of 14.5V in some of our systems?? Thats the one thing I haven't changed.

Any testimonials to this?
All things must cross that bridge Jerry.....good point.

Jerry, are you thinking about an aged switch? I replaced my ignition switch when it broke a couple of years back. I'm still seeking the 14.5 grail with the new switch.

HondaMan · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:18:18 PM »

Quote from: 78CB750CAFE on May 01, 2009, 03:23:31 PM

anyone know of an ignition that can have the key removed in run position? I found out the hard way that my leg interfered with the position my ignition is in (key broke off).
I popped off earlier and grabbed a few more relays to do my aux lights in the car and grabbed an extra to stick in my ignition as well.

OH, NO! THE DREADED SUPERHAWK FLAW HAS COME BACK TO LIFE!
(That's exactly where the key was on those bikes, and I kept a pocket full of spares. $:-\$ )

HondaMan · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:24:36 PM »

Quote from: andy750 on May 01, 2009, 05:31:18 AM

Thanks Hondaman for the info and yes I would be interested in buying one of your kits. As long as its fairly straightforward to install (as I am sure it will be) and work with the round-connector type ignition switches. I already have an automotive blade-style fuse for the main fuse (was a simple plug-in). Let me know when you need some money (paypal).

thanks
Andy

Andy:
I'll make a prototype wire kit up for you on Sunday. I can get to the K4 by then (got 3 swingarms to do right now

). The K4 has the tank and headlight off/out, so I can make up the wire kit. In the meantime, go to your favorite Checker or Auto Zoo and get a 30 amp automotive relay: they look like a black plastic cube about 1" square, often have a mounting tab on them (optional). I think they cost around $5.

Then I'll make up a schematic, add connectors, and you can be my tester?

The thing I first noticed with this setup on mine was the brighter halogen headlight. The voltmeter showed an improvement of 0.25 volts, which was a surprising drop in only 24" of (old) bike wire!

andy750 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:29:06 PM »

Thanks Hondaman for the info but Ill be no good as a tester as I in one week I am going to Japan for 3.5 months. Ill need to get back to this ignition issue in September 2009.

As always your help is much appreciated. This info about ignition switches should be added to the FAQ or to Hondamans thoughts. Good info for everyone.

cheers
Andy

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:37:27 PM »

Hondaman, thanks for your answer (via PM).
So did you ever come across a good replacement option for the Super Hawk? I have a 1/2 key in mine now and start the bike with either a coin or a #10 washer now, not the best thing for security... good thing I got your ignition box with the cut off switch, huh

If I ever get to pull the broken key out can I just file a tab off my other key allowing it to be removed in the "RUN" position?

HondaMan · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:39:12 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on May 01, 2009, 10:04:40 AM

I've often wondering if the ignition switch could be the culprit that creates, shall we say, less than the holy grail of 14.5V in some of our systems?? Thats the one thing I haven't changed.

Any testimonials to this?

Jerry:
Here's a thought: have you tried temporarily jumpering the high side of the field coil to the BLACK directly at the VR? I'm wondering if that momentary short that you used to have at the triple tree may have damaged the wirewound resistor on the bottom of the VR... ? When I do this with my tests, it often runs the volts up over 14...it's always been my "quick check" to see if things are working.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:41:54 PM »

Burma,

Yeah, I'm still running my original bar mounted switch. Did you use a new Honda brand switch? I hate laying out a couple bills for the kit but I may end up doing it. I damn near have enough NOS/new parts stashed for a new bike anyway.

HondaMan · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:42:24 PM »

Quote from: 78CB750CAFE on May 01, 2009, 08:37:27 PM

Hondaman, thanks for your answer (via PM).
So did you ever come across a good replacement option for the Super Hawk? I have a 1/2 key in mine now and start the bike with either a coin or a #10 washer now, not the best thing for security... good thing I got your ignition box with the cut off switch, huh
If I ever get to pull the broken key out can I just file a tab off my other key allowing it to be removed in the "RUN" position?

Just before I sold the Hawk to my first father-in-law, I heated and bent a key over to 90 degrees so it laid flush, more or less, against the side cover. Then I put some clear tape on the cover around the switch hole to protect the Sapphire-blue-over-silver candy paint I had on it. Last time I saw that bike, it still had that key, some years later.

ev0lution7 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:42:55 PM »

or get a solid state Vreg from www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com

i love mine... it charges GREAT!

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:49:23 PM »

Hondaman,

"High side of the field coil"?? I do have a spare VR I could install to compare the wire wound resistor but I'd like to try this also. I did have the Electrex R/R installed that I fried as I was "in search". Back to originals now. No better. Probably won't get to do anything before Old Bike Ride 7. Besides, I don't want to jack up anything and not do the OBR7. Let's talk about it there too.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:50:36 PM »

Quote from: ev0lution7 on May 01, 2009, 08:42:55 PM

or get a solid state Vreg from www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com i love mine... it charges GREAT!

Hondaman needs to get into this field also

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #21 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:56:46 PM »

Quote from: ev0lution7 on May 01, 2009, 08:42:55 PM

or get a solid state Vreg from www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com i love mine... it charges GREAT!

I got one, and all was lovely for a while... Then my stator coil wires fried inside the trans/sprocket cover area... still trying to sort it out

burmashave · « **Reply #22 on:** May 02, 2009, 07:59:20 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on May 01, 2009, 08:41:54 PM

Burma,

Yeah, I'm still running my original bar mounted switch. Did you use a new Honda brand switch? I hate laying out a couple bills for the kit but I may end up doing it. I damn near have enough NOS/new parts stashed for a new bike anyway.

I was thinking it was NOS, but now I'm not sure. I can't find the email receipt. I do remember that I spent a bundle and more to get the set of ignition/tank/seat locks as a keyed package. It did come with original Honda blanks (I know this is in no way definitive), and it looks identical to the OEM part especially in that the switch has the "Start" and "Lock" labels painted red.

I'm not ruling the switch out as a prob. When Honda made these bikes, the ignition switch and connections were likely in tolerance for the amount of power needed. Perhaps that tolerance does not suit heavy needs.

HondaMan · « **Reply #23 on:** May 02, 2009, 08:32:17 AM »

Quote from: 78CB750CAFE on May 01, 2009, 08:56:46 PM

Quote from: ev0lution7 on May 01, 2009, 08:42:55 PM
or get a solid state Vreg from www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com i love mine... it charges GREAT!
I got one, and all was lovely for a while... Then my stator coil wires fried inside the trans/sprocket cover area... still trying to sort it out

I have a post about that somewhere. Some of the aftermarket V Regulators convert this system to a shunt type. This generates an awful lot of heat that the system wasn't designed to handle, and melted alternator components can result. It does force more power out of the alternator, and for short-distance commuter riding, might be a good deal.

I can't do it though, as my commutes can include Mount Evans or other such 100-mile-on-the-way-home-detours.

ev0lution7 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2009, 08:39:59 AM »

email tony about what he uses.... because mine doesnt generate any extra heat and his new Vreg has a heatsink on it and is adjustable....

it seems pretty awesome...

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Author Topic: Aftermarket ignitions are rubbish! (Read 3479 times)

ev0lution7

ev0lution7

ev0lution7