Author Topic: Phillips screw removal tools  (Read 18709 times)

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Markcb750

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Phillips screw removal tools
« on: January 18, 2010, 08:11:05 am »
During my rejuvenation project I developed this set of tools to remove & install these pesky Honda philips head screws.  I don't know if JIS tips are different, I only know that every screw seems different, which is why I have nearly 100 different screwdrivers.

Photo one is the set I use:
 
1. Hardened tip large square shank screw driver (this one is a Crescent from Home Depot)

2. Small adjustable wrench

3. 2lb rubber mallet

Photo two is of the screw driver tip.

Crescent did not mark what size it is on this driver. I found this driver by taking a screw to the store and playing until I got a proper fit.  Enough engagement that the driver will stand nicely in the screw; this is very important.  I do not think the manufacturing standards of screws is very tight, #0,#1.#2.#3 #4 have considerable variation between screw manufacturer.


Photo 2a
I believe these are a #4 tips see the difference?  I have found the dark pointed tip works best for me when I am working on the Hondas.


Photo 3 is a fit demonstration, note how tight the blade fits the screw, it will stand there all by itself.


While in this position I find it best to whack the end of the screw driver several times with the rubber mallet. Good hard taps help to break any corrosion and seat the blade in the screw. Of course make sure the screw head is free of contaminate before attempting to remove.


Photo 4 is with the adjustable attached to provide torque. This allows me to push axially as hard as I can while applying gentle torque to the screw.  Watch the head/blade closely, stop applying torque if there is any rotation or axial movement of the screwdriver, if there is movement I whack it again, harder.

If this fails I then try my impact driver, and then I drill the head off.

Hope this helps someone.

Remember the fitment of the blade in the screw!



« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:50:12 am by Markcb750 »

Offline 754

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 09:20:26 am »
Snap-On has a sopt for a wrench on theirs.

 Remember, no wrench on re installing..then you should be able to get them out screwdriver only.. out on the road..
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Offline myhondas

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 10:01:32 am »
In addition, get ahold of some of this stuff. Has a very gritty texture to it. But it has worked many times for me.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 12:34:19 pm by myhondas »
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 11:29:08 am »
This allows me to push axially as hard as I can while applying gentle torque to the screw.  Watch the head/blade closely, stop applying torque if there is any rotation or axial movement of the screwdriver, if there is movement I whack it again, harder.



I've always found this part to be key in successfully removing stubborn phillips screws. 

Remember, Phillips screws are designed to "cam out" when a certain torque is exceeded, they do this on removal as well as installation.  So, if the screw is stuck for some reason it's difficult to apply sufficient torque because the bit wants to jump out of the screw.  JIT screws and screwdrivers, from what I understand, are not designed to do this, but if you mix and match phillips to JIT then this is an issue.

I learned the "press hard on the end of the screwdriver while you twist" maneuver from a maintenance guy at my first formal summer job as a teen, it's served me well over the years.

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Offline brewsky

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 12:20:11 pm »
In addition, get ahold of some of this stuff. Has a very gritty texture to it. But it has work many times for me.
Looks amazingly similar to the tube of valve grinding compound I use!
It does help, but sometimes there is no alternative to the drill and vise grip method.
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Offline jwl41085

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2010, 03:59:16 pm »
hammer chisel method works good for me. then buy allen head bolts

Markcb750

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2010, 04:36:00 pm »
hammer chisel method works good for me. then buy allen head bolts

I switched every bolt I could to SS SHCSs during my rebuild. I unsuccessfully tried using a chisel to remove the exhaust flange mounting screws that stripped when I was trying remove them.

Drilling out and tapping for 8mm helicoils at the angle of those screws is a delicate procedure. I replaced all the flange mounting screws with SS FHSCSs




When my procedure does not work out I prefer to go directly to a drill, remove the head, take the part off then use pliers to take the screw out.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 04:37:42 pm by Markcb750 »

Offline Howell

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 11:54:13 am »
This is the one and only special screwdriver made for Honda , I bought it in 1975.
Specially made for the Honda screws , you can hammers on it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 11:57:49 am by Howell »
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Offline azporkey

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 09:19:40 pm »
Honest guys a impact tool with case hardened tips can not be beat. It has never  failed me .When you put it in & turn It the way you want the screw to turn . When you hit it with a hammer it goes in & turns to take the screw out. Buy one you will love it. az

Markcb750

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 01:37:35 pm »
The problem with an impact driver is many do not know how to use it properly, and do more damage then good.  

This method allows the user to remove almost all screws without an impact driver, the key being force into the screw to allow enough torque with out damaging the screw.



**I have a great, Made in America, Craftsman impact driver with 5/16 hex drivers.  Several dozen bits and adapters , try finding them today.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 03:44:41 am by Markcb750 »

Offline dave500

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2010, 03:18:46 am »
put the impact bit in the screw and strike it first with out the driver,then do it with the driver.

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2010, 10:27:37 am »
If the heads are already buggered up I have had good luck with a hammer and a nail punch.

bennecc

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 07:45:03 pm »
Another good method if the screw is mangled is to cut a flat head type slot in the screw head using a rotary.  Then use a flat bit with an impact driver.

Offline drones76

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 01:09:58 pm »
'76 CB 360

I am in need of some advice on this one.  The screw the holds the speedo cable to the front wheel.  It is flat to the surface and the PO did a grand job chewing up what was there to grip it.  I cannot even tell if it was a philips head in its former life.  Drilling off the head does not seem like it will work because I may not have anything to grip.  I was thinking about an extractor.  Never needed to use one.  An impact driver has worked on the crankcase screws.  Any help is appreciated.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2010, 01:16:26 pm »
I'm not sure what it is about these, but this seems to always happen. I replaced mine and did not over tighten it. A couple of weeks later tried to remove it and had a heck of time. I finally got it off with an impact driver, but you have to be careful if it is like on my 750, the assembly is unsupported in that area. You need to back it with something before using the driver. Not looking forward to removing again anytime soon.  >:(
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2010, 02:25:24 pm »
You might consider cutting a straight slot in it with a Dremel and then using a flat head screwdriver to turn it out.

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Offline wrenchmuch

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2010, 12:20:47 pm »
I'm not sure what it is about these, but this seems to always happen. I replaced mine and did not over tighten it. A couple of weeks later tried to remove it and had a heck of time. I finally got it off with an impact driver, but you have to be careful if it is like on my 750, the assembly is unsupported in that area. You need to back it with something before using the driver. Not looking forward to removing again anytime soon.  >:(
You might consider cutting a straight slot in it with a Dremel and then using a flat head screwdriver to turn it out.

mystic_1
+1 on both these quotes . I broke my speedo drive trying an impact driver on it . Finding a new one was not difficult .
I cut a slot into the second one and got it out . Make sure you put liberal amounts of copper anti-seize on the NEW bolt . My friend's 750 didn't come out by cutting a slot and we drilled it out . The threaded portion came out easily . I think it might be the counter bored screw head that locks them in place .
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2010, 12:45:24 pm »
I strongly recommend an impact driver.

You just have to remember to put slight "loosening pressure" on the screw before you whack it with the hammer.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2010, 02:35:35 pm »
I strongly recommend an impact driver.

You just have to remember to put slight "loosening pressure" on the screw before you whack it with the hammer.

Mine works in both directions, so make sure you have the tip "cocked" for unscrewing vs tightening.
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Offline 72hondacb750

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2010, 05:23:54 pm »
The few times I've had screws stuck I have had WAY more luck cutting slots in them and then using the flat head impact driver. I think it gets better leverage on the screw since the slot goes closer to the edges of the screw than a phillips.

You can see an example of this is a guide I wrote up about increasing the oil pressure. What I did would work on your spedo drive as well.
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bigtuna

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2010, 05:47:45 am »
just got back from harbor frt. and bought their $4.99 impact driver, ya the one you hit with a hammer , my first tool from hf but as soon as i got home had to try it, on the same honda phillips head screws that are in all the engine side covers, i popped out at least a dozen screws in less than 3 or 4 mins. the hardened tip held up and didnt strip any heads not that i would reuse any. this 76 750-4 has been sitting outside for a couple years uncovered, guy was gutting a house said he was going to have to pay someone to haul it off so i offered to take it off his hands, thought i could sell some parts and scrap the rest, was missing the tank, but everything else was there, but i was having a helluva time with those screws, if you dont have one i would def. get one, oh well my 2cents good luck

Markcb750

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2010, 12:09:59 pm »
You guys understand that I am not suggesting a way to remove a damaged/over torqued screw, I am suggesting a way to press firmly, directly into the screw with a proper screw driver and still be able to apply torque to remove the screw.

Once the screw is damaged, slotting, drilling the head off, vice grips all work.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 01:35:20 am by Markcb750 »

Offline Bluto

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2010, 04:34:49 pm »
You might consider cutting a straight slot in it with a Dremel and then using a flat head screwdriver to turn it out.

mystic_1

+1.  This method is quick... cheap and you replace em with hex head and stick a hex wrench under the seat ;D ;D
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Offline Project750

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2010, 09:19:42 pm »
I bought one of those Harbor Freight impact drivers and the tip actually twisted instead of the screw loosening.  I don't think it was hardened.  And the rubber grip on the outside spun as well.

I took that crap tool back and bought one from Sears. The new one works great.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Phillips screw removal tools
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2010, 01:26:34 am »
cheap impact drivers will let you down,cheap mini socket sets for example are fine,any heavy duty tool thats cheap wont be heavy duty,itll look the part though.,cheap hammers will chip and land a shard in your eye.