Topic: yoshi exhaust

[MCRider]

Well I think it actually was Yoshimura who first raced with the 4 into 1, was a controversy between him and Honda who used the 4 megga's, the Yoshi's were faster. Not always more reliable but faster.

No Honda did not make a four into one until early 1973 at their comeback effort at Daytona on Sumiya, Riemann & McLaughlin works bikes.

There is a bit of a story to tell here....Jim Dickerson an ex-American Honda employee and the guy who caused a fit over the four individual carb cables in Ko's sticking and causing the first recall in motorcycle history to be issued. He went off and started Action Fours in Southern California and kept challenging Honda guys to a drag race with their Works 1973 bikes with four individual megaphones on them against his Action Fours street bike with four into one. Guess who won....the Action fours bikes, by a wide margin! Honda immediately built up some four into ones for Daytona event.

Trouble is, Jim never told Honda that his bikes were "BIG" 836-900cc's or something like that.


KOS

A RACER CHEATING!  I'M CRUSHED!       

[bubbafun101]

The pic of the yellow bike on page three, top photo. Does that rear hub look like its running a hydraulic actuator instead of a pull rod? Maybe I am missing something....

[bwaller]

The pic of the yellow bike on page three, top photo. Does that rear hub look like its running a hydraulic actuator instead of a pull rod? Maybe I am missing something....

If your talking about the #30 Fisher bike, it's a large cable.

[turboguzzi]

Pop's probably was the first, but George Kerker always claimed he was first, but so did Russ Collins of RC Engineering. Also Jim Dickerson on of Action fours was talking like he did it first. Here is a picture of Gary Fisher's bike at Sears Point, Ca 1971...lookes to me like a hand bent, four into one!

I'm pretty sure Dave Degen's was not the first. They did not even sell CB750's in Europe until 1971.



Also, look at the craftsmanship of the bike...NOT!  Look at those welds! Can you say, arc welder!!! Yikes, I can't believe it made it thru tech?


KS

some welding indeed! never seen the original superbikes from up close, but looking at the pics in CW features on cooley's GS1000 1979 yoshi bike, I was quite surprised by the quality of his "components". Hand bent ally plates seemmingly cut with a jigsaw as rear sets, very informal hand drilling of the head and cyl block, etc.  They still went like stink though,

thanks for posting these cool pics

TG

[voxonda]

In those days the workshops were not near like they are today. And winners are not picked by how they look but how fast they are!
But I agree, some times wonder how they passed the tech

[kos]

The pic of the yellow bike on page three, top photo. Does that rear hub look like its running a hydraulic actuator instead of a pull rod? Maybe I am missing something....

That my friend is the rather large diameter CR kit cable.  Look closly, there are two pikes pictured in these 1971 photos.  One has a shinny, non painted oil tank and a right hand shifter (Euro style) that pivots backwards off of the kick stater spline shaft. And the other has a painted oil tank (black) and a right side brake (kit) pedal.

A pics worth a thousand words....

KOS

[Sam Green Racing]

Also, it is general agreed that Triumph made the first collector exhaust for motocycles on their fabulous 750 Triples. 3 into one.


KOS

I think the guys are only refering to the pipes fitted to the Honda fours Mark.
Collector pipes were in use long before the Triumph and BSA tripples were thought of.

Sam.

[turboguzzi]

Also, it is general agreed that Triumph made the first collector exhaust for motocycles on their fabulous 750 Triples. 3 into one.


KOS

I think the guys are only refering to the pipes fitted to the Honda fours Mark.
Collector pipes were in use long before the Triumph and BSA tripples were thought of.

Sam.

Sure, Indian fours, nimbuses, FN fours, had collectors WELL before, but they werent a performance improvement......

[Sam Green Racing]

TG, I wasn't refering to general purpose exhaust, performance type collector into one pipe have been around for years.

Sam.

[754]

Indian 4 and Nimbus 4, had what I would call a log type manifold, not a tuned collector exhaust...



The Trident I believe stock, had a 3 into 4 into 2 exhaust...

[kos]

Also, it is general agreed that Triumph made the first collector exhaust for motorcycles on their fabulous 750 Triples. 3 into one.


KOS

I think the guys are only referring to the pipes fitted to the Honda fours Mark.
Collector pipes were in use long before the Triumph and BSA triples were thought of.

Sam.

I should have clarified the use of the term "collector exhaust systems "....I should have used the proper more defining term, "merge collector" type systems. Hooking two pipes together without having the head pipes of equal length and into a merge collector is what we are talking about.

Please, send photos of other bikes that have done this prior to Triumph triples.



KOS

[Sam Green Racing]

I had one on a CB92 in the early 60s, no pics though, wern't rich enough to own a camera.

Sam.

[kos]

A CB92!!!  I would like to see that. You took off the beautifull "R" megaphones from Honda to make a 2 into 1?


 You musta been a rich man.

KOS

[Sam Green Racing]

It was just an experiment, done more for weight loss more than any gain in power.
We didn't know about dynos in them days and relied on the very acurate timing equipment on the strip.
After quite a few runs, it went down a tenth quicker. Too difficult too tell if it was a power gain or through weight loss or a slight tail wind. I may have broken wind on that run.
Have got a nice set of CB92R megaphones sat in my bedroom.

Sam.

[kos]

Yes, I miss my Honda CB92R, as it was one of only a few that came out of the crate with Tacho installed in headlite, meggas installed, "R" cam and all the kit stuff. Sold it back in early 90's to man in Japan for over 10K

KOS

 I'll try find a photo.

[754]

Brough Superior 1938

Dresch 1930..Germany

HD v twins,,and Indian

Wanderer 1922 Germany

Windhoff 1928 Germany

are a few thast used merge collectors...

[kos]

Brough Superior 1938

Dresch 1930..Germany

HD v twins,,and Indian

Wanderer 1922 Germany

Windhoff 1928 Germany

are a few thast used merge collectors...

I would still like to see them?


Head pipes are equal length?

KOS

[754]

Most were not equal length, some merged side by side some didnt..

 A lot of "new" stuff has been tried long ago, that stuff, for a long list of reasons  did not become mainstream till decades later in a lot of cases..

 ie monoshock type swingarms, upside down forks, etc..

[turboguzzi]

yosh was also a bit of a car guy according to his site

could it be that he was influenced by the 4-1 of the late sixities cosworth dfv f1 motors?

they had a 4-1 for each bank with equal length headers

[kos]

I was asking for information and pics of equal length head pipes merge type collector exhaust systems. On motorbikes.

KOS

[voxonda]

Still believe Yoshimura was one (of the first), after the Triumph/BSA 3 into 1, but even before these beauties Paul Dunstall used this technique on his 2 into1 exhausts in the mid to end sixties.

This is a '67 Norton system.
Equal length primary's and merge type collector. Does this count?

Rob

[kos]

Yes, that one counts. But up until someone sends more photos and data...it's all hearsay in my book.


KOS

[754]

When you say Triumph used a 3-1 , when and on what..? are you talking the racers?

 Partial quote from Kos, got me confused..

" I should have used the proper defining term, "merge collector" type systems. Hooking two pipes together without having the head pipes of equal length and into a merge collector is what we are talking about."   posed at 11:06

 Then I listed examples, not all had a collecter, some did...

754..

[kos]

When you say Triumph used a 3-1 , when and on what..? are you talking the racers?

 Partial quote from Kos, got me confused..

" I should have used the proper defining term, "merge collector" type systems. Hooking two pipes together without having the head pipes of equal length and into a merge collector is what we are talking about."   posed at 11:06

 Then I listed examples, not all had a collecter, some did...

754..

It is time to reconstruct this thread on collector exhausts systems and hwen they were first used. My mistake for the wordin. By the  standard of the industry definaition...


Singles have one cylinder and are known as, singles
Twins have two cylinders and are known as, twins
Anything over two cylinders are called, muti's

So lets keep this thread about multi cylinder machines.


KOS

[Sam Green Racing]

When you say Triumph used a 3-1 , when and on what..? are you talking the racers?

 Partial quote from Kos, got me confused..

" I should have used the proper defining term, "merge collector" type systems. Hooking two pipes together without having the head pipes of equal length and into a merge collector is what we are talking about."   posed at 11:06

 Then I listed examples, not all had a collecter, some did...

754..

It is time to reconstruct this thread on collector exhausts systems and hwen they were first used. My mistake for the wordin. By the  standard of the industry definaition...


Singles have one cylinder and are known as, singles
Twins have two cylinders and are known as, twins
Anything over two cylinders are called, muti's

So lets keep this thread about multi cylinder machines.


KOS

Damn, I spent 5 hours this morning trying to trace relatives of my late racing buddy to see if they have any pics of us racing the Benlys with the Siamesed pipe..... and now you don't want to know

Sam.